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stabilized whipped cream without gelatin?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Hi, anyone have experience using non-gelatin stabilizer for whipped cream?  I'm working with a pastry maker for a health food deli (ha ha).  Will agar keep cream stabilized for 3-5 days?  Any other stabilizers you'd use? I see that cornstarch will stabilize for 1 day, but what about longer?

Thanks for any help.
post #2 of 16
Wow!  You just told me something I never knew, that commercial bakery products using whipped cream may have stabilizers in them.

Why the "ha ha" when mentioning a "health food deli?"
Schmoozer
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post #3 of 16
I think most people don't think of  "deli" and "health food" at the same time.  I was actualy surprised to find that a local health food store has a deli in it and the offerings are very healthy and I must say not your typical deli fare.
OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
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OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
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post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 
Most people don't think put health food and whipped cream in the same sentence.  We have a variety of vegetable, grain or pasta based salads, some cooked meats.

Schmoozer- whipped cream starts to weep after a few hours.   A few pastries/desserts can absorb the moisture without ruining the texture, but most can't.  


Unless the pastry has been assembled just before you eat it, the whipped cream has been stabilized.
post #5 of 16
Since you're concerned because this will be eaten by vegetarians, and gelatin is made from animals, i wonder of something like pectin could work. 

I also wonder if you could make creme fraiche and whip that?  Creme fraiche is very solid already and may not weep so much.
(Ok i made it sound like creme fraiche was really stoical!)
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #6 of 16
While I have only read about agar and never actually used it, to my knowledge it should hold up. Aside from culinary uses agar is used in petri dishes to grow bacteria so I'm guessing once set it is pretty stable. The only problems with agar you might run into is that I have heard it has a high setting temp compared to gelatin (agar setting around 100 degrees F and gelatin around 90-95 F) so to have it workable it might be hot enough to deflate your whipped cream. Also, I have heard that when set, agar is more brittle than gelatin, again may not be preferable for whipped cream. Pectin might work but I think that needs an acid and a sugar to set, the acid might curdle your cream? Maybe some type of emulsifier?
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"Of course the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. At some point, I hope to learn enough to realize that I know nothing at all. Then maybe I'll be able to snatch a pebble from Julia Child's hand"
- Alton Brown
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post #7 of 16
What about mixing the agar with some cream prior to whipping, them mixing that with the bulk of what you plan to whip. That might give it more stability without causing any of the milk protein to denature.

If you do try Agar Agar, please post the results, I'd love to hear about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-O View Post

While I have only read about agar and never actually used it, to my knowledge it should hold up. Aside from culinary uses agar is used in petri dishes to grow bacteria so I'm guessing once set it is pretty stable. The only problems with agar you might run into is that I have heard it has a high setting temp compared to gelatin (agar setting around 100 degrees F and gelatin around 90-95 F) so to have it workable it might be hot enough to deflate your whipped cream. Also, I have heard that when set, agar is more brittle than gelatin, again may not be preferable for whipped cream. Pectin might work but I think that needs an acid and a sugar to set, the acid might curdle your cream? Maybe some type of emulsifier?
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the suggestions, they give me a few avenues to follow.  And yes, we have a lot of vegetarian customers, which is why I'm looking into this.

I've played around with agar a little, but mostly for japanese type gel desserts.  Never tried it like this, although the 'nets tell me people use it for whipped cream.  I just don't know about the texture and how long it holds.  It works like the cornstarch method, like TheoB says.   You heat it in a portion of the cream, add to the rest and chill, then whip.


Pectin does need a lot of sugar and acid to set.     BUT...  there is a type of pectin that doesn't need sugar to set, it comes with a calcium powder that kicks off the gel.  It also doesn't need as much acid .    That might work, and my store carries a brand, so the product has already been vetted. Thanks for the idea siduri.

The tricky thing is that this particular pastry is made by an outside baker.  Before I suggest the change, I want to have some realistic (and easy) suggestions. 

I think I'll need to experiment first before I make the suggestion.  I might have some agar and the no sugar pectin hiding in the back of my cupboard somewhere.  I'll post the results, good or bad.  I'll freeze it too, just to see what happens. 
post #9 of 16
The pectin you are looking for is a low methoxyl pectin... as for stabilizers you may wish to also incorporate locust bean gum as well as the agar, which should help with the brittleness problem.  You really should only add around the vicinity of 0.1 or 0.2% though.
Edited by Blueicus - 3/4/10 at 12:16pm
"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
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"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
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post #10 of 16
10x will stabilize and sweeten at the same time. 1.5 cups to 4 cups heavy cream. I use this for my Tuxedo Cake and the leftovers will last at least 3 days in coldest part of fridge. Not to mention it is really tasty.
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillonsmimi View Post

10x will stabilize and sweeten at the same time. 1.5 cups to 4 cups heavy cream. I use this for my Tuxedo Cake and the leftovers will last at least 3 days in coldest part of fridge. Not to mention it is really tasty.

What is 10x? Is it a pectin type?
post #12 of 16
 10x is a granularity of confectioner's sugar.  Most confectioner's sugar has cornstarch added to prevent caking, which will also help stabilize the cream.  You can also get confectioner's sugar without added ingredients.
"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
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"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
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post #13 of 16

Is it possible to stabilize whipped creme fraiche with just cornstarch?   I want to use it as a filling for a macaron experiment I'd like to try.  I'm just wondering if the macs would have to be kept refrigerated or could they be kept at room temp for a couple hours without the fililng weeping/breaking down.

 

Thanks!

post #14 of 16

Yes, it will work. You can use either cornstarch or flour. Of the two I would use the cornstarch. I would keep them cool to prevent problems.

 

Petals.

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(155 photos)
  
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Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(155 photos)
  
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post #15 of 16

Thanks so much!!!

 

post #16 of 16

I was a vegetarian for 18 months, and I did not eliminate butter and cream, but would not eat milk solids - lactose intolerant.

I may be using the terms incorrectly, but not all vegetarians eliminate dairy products.

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