Fish! - Page 2

Wow, Benway, that's extremely helpful information -- straight from the fish's mouth, as it were!

Speaking of salmon, I think I mentioned somewhere that raw salmon is not at all popular, and in fact fairly unusual, in Japan. That's because of the parasite problem you mention. On the other hand, of course, salmon is extremely common and popular in American sushi places. Why? Because American sushi places normally serve defrosted fish, and American diners are not used to what truly raw fish is like.

You're dead right about octopus sashimi. Some people in Japan want the tentacles still squirming, which means cutting the slices from a live octopus. The cruelty part doesn't concern me much, but personally I don't like my food to move in my mouth. Besides, the suckers tend to try to seize onto your tongue, lips, and inner cheeks, which I find gross.

I probably could not tell taste wise .Visually though you can spot a mile away. Some salmon farms feed them  with dehydrated sulpher treated carrots.

Those who are professional chefs most likely do this anyways but give your fish suppliers hell if anything is below your standards.  That pressure DOES get back to the fishermen.  If it weren't for the chefs who are willing to buy the stuff zero boats would have chillers in their fish holds.  Why spend more money for something that doesn't increase the poundage?

Benway. One can't get any closer to the source then you.I have been in Alaska 2 times and wonder why in a restaurant salmon is so expensive. Considering the fact that when I went to a nearby stream they would almost jump into your arms. I watch Deadly catch here on local TV and am amazed that like you say , these guys work 12 to 24 hours straight. Guess you gotta make it when you can. In any event like you say "It all depends where fish comes from""  Example being this past year Florida Fisherman got real sick from Grouper caught near the Bahama area which contained deadly parasites. That one reason why all cruise ships will only take on fish that has been frozen 72 hours or more. They claim this kills not all, but most of parasites. Bacteria however can survive freezing, but fish seem to have an immune system that repels bacteria. Sounds like you have a good job.

.......and wonder why in a restaurant salmon is so expensive.

Aw, come on, Ed. You know better than that. When has the price of a raw protein had anything to do with what it costs in a restaurant?

Ever been to Maine of the Maritimes in late summer? Lobstermen will happily sell you anything on the boat for two bucks a pop. Doesn't stop local restaurants from charging $25 for a lobster dinner.

Would you compare the cost of a tow sack full of oysters, off the boat, with what it costs for a dozen raw in a restaurant? Or shrimp off the boat vs shimp in a seafood place?

Or, to put a point on it, how about comparing the grouper swimming off of Florida's coasts (which are available to anyone with a rod & reel, btw) with the price of a grouper sandwich? Given the size of the fish, and their availability, there is probably nothing as skewed as price difference between grouper at the dock and grouper in a restaurant.

Ed I have no idea why anything costs as much as is does in Alaska.  My best guess is lack of Wal-Marts.  At least in all the harbor towns that I've been in everything is geared toward tourists.

Not all restaurants are just for tourists.  The local Chinese places are priced no differently than they are in the lower 48.  On their buffets and menus you'll find tons of local seafood that can be enjoyed for $10 a head.  I've had some very good and creative sushi in those kinds of places too.

I agree raw price and restaurant do differ in particular touristy type places, but I went to places off the beaten trail that all the local;s were in. And in Florida Yes I could take you for a crispy grouper sandwich in Palm Beach that you would have to leave your wallet and just  Beer alone is $7.00 at lunch.  In Palm Beach now there is a special at The Breakers because season is over  $249.00 a night plus 9% occupancy tax plus 6 1/2 sales tax . Thats the summer special. Then I could take you to eat Grouper in West Palm  which is so cheap it amazes me they they stay in business, early birds even less. Also do not eat Oysters in Florida  local waters are to warm.

I would emphasize that taking advantage of what is locally available is a good way to go with fish. Is your reason for eating less red meat and dairy cholesterol related? If so, shell fish contains high quantities. Also, apex predators (but not limited to) in certain ecosystems contain high amounts of toxins. Where I live I regularly gather a variety of shellfish and fin fish (urchin, clams, abalone, rock scallops, ling cod and several other rock fish). Various sea weeds as well have excellent food value in Northern California.

I thought California had a moritorium on collecting abalone. Was I misinformed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer 

I thought California had a moritorium on collecting abalone. Was I misinformed?

you must have been misinformed. South of the Golden Gate has been closed for 10+ years but North is fine and they are very plentiful.

Alaska is a funny place, though. My mother grew up in Fairbanks, and my late grandmother lived there from when she was 24 until she passed away at 96.

The crucial thing in figuring out prices is you have to understand how much it is necessary to spread expenses across a menu or the like. For example, except in Juneau and perhaps (but not likely) Anchorage, you cannot raise chickens without a heated and insulated henhouse, and you have to pay for the heating 6 months a year, minimum. Same goes for almost all livestock. So the result is that there's no meat in Alaska, and it all has to be shipped in, which makes it very, very expensive -- the highway is LOOONG. So if you want a range of meal offerings, you spread the prices around, and that drives up the price of something as obviously local as salmon.

That said, there's a great place just outside Fairbanks where three days a week you could get all-you-can-eat salmon, corn, biscuits, and basic green salad for something like $25 (probably $35 now -- it's been a few years since I was there). For the same price, you could replace the salmon with a single 1/2-pound steak of so-so quality. See what I mean about pricing in Alaska?

EDIT: When I say there's no meat in Alaska, obviously I'm not including game, which abounds. But there are all kinds of ridiculous laws about serving wild game in restaurants, as many of you know....

Gasoline in Alaska is expensive because from what I gather it is shipped to Juno for refining and then travels back.to other locations. If cruise ships don't come in to some cities along the coast for a day then that city basically closes down for that  day, nothing opens. No stores no restaurants etc. Sitka, Ketchikan, Prince Ruppert Island, all closed for the day.

Gasoline in Alaska is expensive because from what I gather it is shipped to Juno for refining and then travels back.to other locations. If cruise ships don't come in to some cities along the coast for a day then that city basically closes down for that  day, nothing opens. No stores no restaurants etc. Sitka, Ketchikan, Prince Ruppert Island, Skagway all closed for the day.

I don't know if that really makes sense, Ed. Gas is expensive in Kentucky because crude is shipped to the Gulf Coast all the way from Saudi Arabia, where it is refined and shipped to us. Allee allee same same.

My point is, things are expensive in Alaska because of the synergism that exists in all products. In order to afford meat and other imported goods, salaries have to be high---including those of oil workers. That, in turn, affects the price of even domestic products. And round and round it goes.

Last time I was in Skagway everything was open. There were no cruise ships in for the first two days. The third day a boat did come in. Only thing that changed was that prices went up overnight.

Catch of the day:  Rainbow trout,  fresh from the stream near us.  HubbyDearest fishes the deepest pools,  and some of the fish he gets are 15" (good size for these waters).   Pan fried or grilled,  we're not fussy. 

Lucky you, Grace. Nothing like trout so fresh from the water they curl when they hit the pan.

When they're that fresh, btw, they're ideal for truite au bleu.

We get a fair amount of red snapper and other offshore fish during this time of year.  I think fish caught that day and served that evening is the gold standard.  If the fish is fileted and kept in bags on ice, I don't see much difference in quality for four or five days. 

If we aren't going to consume our catch within the five day period, the second best quality in my opinion is to freeze the filets on cookie sheets as soon as possible, and then vaccuum seal.  This is the procedure advocated by the Foodsaver tutorial.  I used to vaccuum seal the unfrozen filets, and found that when defrosted  the quality was not as good - translate could have a fishy odor, which I detest. The texture is also different from the fresh product as noted above by KYH and others.  The filets that are frozen and then vaccuum sealed are noticably better..

For the most part, if I'm buying fish I am leary of the "fresh fish" displayed on ice in the super markets.  If I can't catch it, I'll buy the frozen product.