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What is my alternative to balsamic vinegar when making a pomodoro sauce?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
 I would really want to make shrimp pomodoro pasta..... is there any alternative to balsamic vinegar when making the pomodoro sauce?

Here is the recipe for the sauce:

diced tomatoes (canned or fresh)
Basil 1 leaf
olive oil 1tsp-1tbsp (your choice)
balsamic vinegar 1 tsp-1tbsp (your choice)
garlic 2 cloves
shallots 1 tbsp 

Any suggestions?
post #2 of 24
Red wine vinegar and brown sugar is a start. Not the same. and not used 1 for 1 as its more acidic.
Chinese Black Vinegar shares many similarities as well. Not 1 for 1 sub either.

With either of these, add a little and taste to suit you.

Workable balsamics don't have to be expensive and are widely available. You shouldn't need to substitute.
post #3 of 24
You don't need vinegar of any sort to make a pomodoro.  The minimum requirements are:  olive oil, tomatoes, garlic, and salt.  You almost always add a little sugar (amount depends on the tomatoes), onion and basil as well.  Everything else is some sort of variation.

I understand the reason you're asking for a substitute is that balsamic is not available where you live.  

Could you use balsamic vinegar in a pomodoro?  Sure.  Why not?  Shallots?  I don't see the point -- they'd just get lost -- but knock yourself out if you like.

Since balsamic vinegar is not a traditional part of the sauce, there's no compulsion to replace it.  Just use plain white sugar (which is more "traditonal" anyway) to adjust the sugar balance to taste.  Or, you could use any sweetener. even honey.

BDL
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post #4 of 24
I don;t understand what you mean by a "pomodoro sauce" - pomodoro means tomato.  I never heard of tomato sauce with vinegar of any kind.  But maybe this is a raw sauce?  or is it cooked?  you give the ingredients but not the technique.  Just curious. 
"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
 I am just following what the recipe is saying, so I don't know why it's asking for a vinegar, This is my the first time I will try this sauce though.

Thanks for your replies though, I appreciate it. 
post #6 of 24
Yeah, but what does the recipe say?  do you cook it?  is it raw?  It's not clear. 
"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #7 of 24
That recipe is somewhat similar to a tomato olive coulis we make at the restaurant though I don't honestly think it makes a particularly great pasta sauce (we use it for other things).  If you're doing pasta you can just omit the vinegar altogether.
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post #8 of 24
Is it cooked?  do you sautee the garlic and shallots in the oil?  do you just pyut it all together in the pot?  do you put it all, raw, in the blender????
"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #9 of 24
 Boar d Laze is correct Balsamic in a Filet D' Pomodoro  I think not. Your version could have it but not the classic. The shallots are also optional. As far as sweetening you may not need sugar if the tomatoes are good. A pinch of baking soda could also tend to sweeten. Good Luck

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #10 of 24
Pomodoro Sauce with Balsamic sounds a little too sweet to me considering your Shrimps and Shallots have such sweetness to them.
I would forgo the Basamic myself as well as any sugar additives....If you would like some herbal sweetness Fresh Basil is nice and on the other hand  Tarragon is another way to go....

Gypsy
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post #11 of 24

I just reread the recipe and realized Basil was one of the main ingrediants...maybe Oregano then

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post #12 of 24
is it cooked???  How is it cooked?  sauteed then simmered?  simmered only?  or is it a raw sauce? 
"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeMadeCook View Post

 I would really want to make shrimp pomodoro pasta..... is there any alternative to balsamic vinegar when making the pomodoro sauce?

Here is the recipe for the sauce:

diced tomatoes (canned or fresh)
Basil 1 leaf
olive oil 1tsp-1tbsp (your choice)
balsamic vinegar 1 tsp-1tbsp (your choice)
garlic 2 cloves
shallots 1 tbsp 

Any suggestions?
I do a pomodoro sauce from Sicily.  No vinegar.  I do put some pork bones and meat in during the simmering, which gives it a nice flavor.  I also use San Marzano tomatoes.
"J'aime cuisiner avec du vin, j'ai parfois même mettre dans les aliments je suis cuisson. ""Mi piace cucinare con il vino, talvolta ho persino messa nel cibo sto cottura. ""I enjoy cooking with wine, sometimes I even put it in the food I'm cooking." - Julia Child 
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"J'aime cuisiner avec du vin, j'ai parfois même mettre dans les aliments je suis cuisson. ""Mi piace cucinare con il vino, talvolta ho persino messa nel cibo sto cottura. ""I enjoy cooking with wine, sometimes I even put it in the food I'm cooking." - Julia Child 
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post #14 of 24
Cyberdoc's suggestion sounds yummy. 

On a side note, I thought pomodoro doesn't need vinegar? 
post #15 of 24
Will somebody please answer Siduri's question?

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #16 of 24
I think the OP has gone  AWOL.

Surely it must be a cooked sauce, what with the garlic and shallots.  Saute garlic and shallots in the EVOO, then add your tomatoes etc and simmer until everything is nice and mushy.

I can't imagine it as a raw sauce.  But I do wish OP would reply....
 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
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 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
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post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeMadeCook View Post

 I would really want to make shrimp pomodoro pasta..... is there any alternative to balsamic vinegar when making the pomodoro sauce?

Here is the recipe for the sauce:

diced tomatoes (canned or fresh)
Basil 1 leaf
olive oil 1tsp-1tbsp (your choice)
balsamic vinegar 1 tsp-1tbsp (your choice)
garlic 2 cloves
shallots 1 tbsp 

Any suggestions?

HomeMadeCook - that is a list of ingredients, not a recipe.  Could you please elaborate and put "pen to paper" on the methods of making this sauce please
 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Sunshine View Post

I think the OP has gone  AWOL.

Surely it must be a cooked sauce, what with the garlic and shallots.  Saute garlic and shallots in the EVOO, then add your tomatoes etc and simmer until everything is nice and mushy.

I can't imagine it as a raw sauce.  But I do wish OP would reply....
That's what i would think, DC, but then i would imagine whoever wrote the recipe would have written the ingredients in the order in which they;re used: oil, garlic, shallots, tomatoes, etc. 
On the other hand, I have heard of sauces that were done raw - probably not traditional ones, but sauces nevertheless, and some are actually good.  Because of the order of appearance of the ingredients and the presence of vinegar, it sounded like one of these cold sauces.  The one i tasted was raw but blended.  It used tomatoes at the height of the season and was pretty nice.  Like a warm pasta salad. 
One very common dressing for pasta is pasta al caprese: raw tomatoes and mozzarella cut up with oil, raw garlic and salt.  Dump it into the hot pasta and let it sit a minute as the cheese warms. 
"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #19 of 24
In Naples it's Salsa alle Vongole (Clam sauce ),in Genoa it's Pesto or (Salsa Verde ) in southern Italy it's Tomato Sauce or (Salsa di Pomodoro). Wherever you may travel in Italy, sauce is the crowning touch to pasta --the touch which transforms a plain flour and egg mixture into an elegant entree.   Tomato Sauce is a 'Mother Sauce' which means it can be transformed from it's basic into well...Salsa di Carni Pomodoro ( Tomato Meat Sauce)  Rose Sauce ( Tomato Cream) Vodka Sauce (Tomato with cream and Pancetta finished with Vodka ),  Tomato Coulis, or you can finish braised meat dishes such as stew, and other derivatives 
It is Tomato Sauce and yes it is cooked ...everyone has their own version in my experiance , and their own favourite Tomatoes canned or fresh....Chef's everywhere have chewed the fat on that one!

I hope this was helpfull Siduri

Gypsy

Quote:
Originally Posted by siduri View Post

I don;t understand what you mean by a "pomodoro sauce" - pomodoro means tomato.  I never heard of tomato sauce with vinegar of any kind.  But maybe this is a raw sauce?  or is it cooked?  you give the ingredients but not the technique.  Just curious. 
 
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post #20 of 24
Siduri - I can now see how it could be a cold sauce, as per what you said with the order of ingredients as listed. I would prefer to do it as warm sauce.

Gypsy - I concur that it must be a warm sauce, preferably.  But it could be cold, as per what Siduri posted.  Although I would hesitate at using uncooked garlic.  The rest is fine uncooked, but I really don;t like garlic to be raw in a sauce,  It needs some heat to take the sulphur taste out of it.
 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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post #21 of 24
well D.C. ,  it sounds like a  Bruschetta mix could do the same thing for this recipe until I saw "'or canned tomatoes "  as after all there is no method to this recipe


back to the grind 


Gypsy 
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post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsy2727 View Post

In Naples it's Salsa alle Vongole (Clam sauce ),in Genoa it's Pesto or (Salsa Verde ) in southern Italy it's Tomato Sauce or (Salsa di Pomodoro). Wherever you may travel in Italy, sauce is the crowning touch to pasta --the touch which transforms a plain flour and egg mixture into an elegant entree.   Tomato Sauce is a 'Mother Sauce' which means it can be transformed from it's basic into well...Salsa di Carni Pomodoro ( Tomato Meat Sauce)  Rose Sauce ( Tomato Cream) Vodka Sauce (Tomato with cream and Pancetta finished with Vodka ),  Tomato Coulis, or you can finish braised meat dishes such as stew, and other derivatives 
It is Tomato Sauce and yes it is cooked ...everyone has their own version in my experiance , and their own favourite Tomatoes canned or fresh....Chef's everywhere have chewed the fat on that one!

I hope this was helpfull Siduri

Gypsy
 


 
Thanks, Gypsy,

But that wasn't exactly my question.  I'm not speaking as a chef but just as a person who's been living in Italy for (way too many!) years.  I'm not familiar with the terms used in English for Italian dishes any more.   

In Italian, "pomodoro sauce" (sugo di pomodoro) is a very generic name.  It just means tomato sauce.  But the original question was framed in such a way that it would seem like it's a specific term for a specific kind of tomato sauce in English.  In fact sugo di pomodoro can simply refer to the juice that settles when you've cut open tomatoes - because it also means juice.  "Salsa di pomodoro" often is used for an ingredient - a sort of tomato reduction, some people even use it to refer to tomato paste.  Since most everyday pasta has a tomato sauce, it doesn't say much.

In Italian, Pesto would not be equated generally with "salsa verde" which, while it simply means "green sauce" and could be used to refer to pesto,  I've only heard the term is used for a specific sauce made with parsley and generally used on boiled meat. And you can have pesto that is not green at all (pesto di noci).   But fair enough if in the US it's become a culinary term with a different meaning.  We say french dressing, and it has nothing to do with what is put on salad in france.  Who cares in the end, as long as we know what we're talking about.

"Salsa di carni pomodoro" is not Italian - it would sort of mean tomato meats sauce!  You might call it sugo di carne, ragu alla carne, sugo di pomodoro con carne - you wouldn't say "carni" unless it used more than one kind of meat, and you wouldn't ever say "carni pomodoro" which doesn't make sense grammatically.   

I'm not being snobby here, but just want to point out that the terms used in the States or other English-speaking countries are not the same or simply literal translations of what is used in Italy.  Take "shrimp scampi" which is a pretty common term for a particular shrimp dish.  In Italian it means "shrimp shrimp" - and makes no sense.  But it doesn't matter if we use it in English because everyone knows what we're talking about.  Or take that dish that became very popular in the 70s, "pasta primavera" - it's a very un-italian dish, you would never have encountered it here, at least in those days, and used an italian term for something un-italian.

Now that terms in Italian are becoming popular in English because Italy has become trendy, and new italian words are being used which I never heard in English before and with a specific meaning, which is not always the Italian meaning because they're being invented in English-speaking countries.  I was just wondering specifically what HomeMadeCook meant by "pomodoro sauce". I thought it might have referred to a specific sauce that has recently become popular in the states.  If HMC meant simply tomato sauce, I doubt she(he?) would have said pomodoro sauce, but maybe not, maybe now everyone calls "tomato sauce" "pomodoro sauce."
I wasn't asking what it meant but what the poster specifically meant by it - if it was intended to refer to a specific kind of sauce. 

The reason I asked that is that if it's a specific kind of sauce, then maybe the vinegar is essential to it.  It also might be a raw sauce, which would make it very different with the same ingredients.  I've never encountered a tomato sauce with vinegar in it, and to answer the original question I wanted to know just what was that particular person meant by "pomodoro sauce".

I still would love to know if HMC 's recipe called for cooking it or not. 

Ok, sorry, I guess I have too much time on my hands!  (Or, more truthfully, I have way too much to do that I don't feel like doing!)
Edited by siduri - 4/18/10 at 12:22am
"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
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post #23 of 24
Siduri,
I agree.  Too many names of dishes are becoming to be used for a wide variety of dishes - and therein comes the confusion.  Spaghetti Bolognese is a classic mess of interpretations.  And lasagne.  A roasted layered vegetable (aubergine, onion, zucchini etc) is not a lasagne. It forms the same shape but surely it cannot be called a lasagne- Can it?.  This sort of things annoys me too.  And please - don't get me started on pizza.  While I am a stickler for names of dishes being what they were originally - the names do serve a purpose. They tell you what the dish is.Baguettes are baguettes (dang they are nice :) ). Tzsatziki is Tzsazike (mm yum). What I'm saying is - don't re-invent the wheel - it is round - it works,

As in a Yorkshire pudding - it's one basic recipe, we know what it is. But so many recipies have been bastardised you can't recognise the original dish.

P.S. Bughut - I have a mountain fo ironing, but I'd rather do this
 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by siduri View Post



Thanks, Gypsy,

But that wasn't exactly my question.  I'm not speaking as a chef but just as a person who's been living in Italy for (way too many!) years.  I'm not familiar with the terms used in English for Italian dishes any more.   

In Italian, "pomodoro sauce" (sugo di pomodoro) is a very generic name.  It just means tomato sauce.  But the original question was framed in such a way that it would seem like it's a specific term for a specific kind of tomato sauce in English.  In fact sugo di pomodoro can simply refer to the juice that settles when you've cut open tomatoes - because it also means juice.  "Salsa di pomodoro" often is used for an ingredient - a sort of tomato reduction, some people even use it to refer to tomato paste.  Since most everyday pasta has a tomato sauce, it doesn't say much.

In Italian, Pesto would not be equated generally with "salsa verde" which, while it simply means "green sauce" and could be used to refer to pesto,  I've only heard the term is used for a specific sauce made with parsley and generally used on boiled meat. And you can have pesto that is not green at all (pesto di noci).   But fair enough if in the US it's become a culinary term with a different meaning.  We say french dressing, and it has nothing to do with what is put on salad in france.  Who cares in the end, as long as we know what we're talking about.

"Salsa di carni pomodoro" is not Italian - it would sort of mean tomato meats sauce!  You might call it sugo di carne, ragu alla carne, sugo di pomodoro con carne - you wouldn't say "carni" unless it used more than one kind of meat, and you wouldn't ever say "carni pomodoro" which doesn't make sense grammatically.   

I'm not being snobby here, but just want to point out that the terms used in the States or other English-speaking countries are not the same or simply literal translations of what is used in Italy.  Take "shrimp scampi" which is a pretty common term for a particular shrimp dish.  In Italian it means "shrimp shrimp" - and makes no sense.  But it doesn't matter if we use it in English because everyone knows what we're talking about.  Or take that dish that became very popular in the 70s, "pasta primavera" - it's a very un-italian dish, you would never have encountered it here, at least in those days, and used an italian term for something un-italian.

Now that terms in Italian are becoming popular in English because Italy has become trendy, and new italian words are being used which I never heard in English before and with a specific meaning, which is not always the Italian meaning because they're being invented in English-speaking countries.  I was just wondering specifically what HomeMadeCook meant by "pomodoro sauce". I thought it might have referred to a specific sauce that has recently become popular in the states.  If HMC meant simply tomato sauce, I doubt she(he?) would have said pomodoro sauce, but maybe not, maybe now everyone calls "tomato sauce" "pomodoro sauce."
I wasn't asking what it meant but what the poster specifically meant by it - if it was intended to refer to a specific kind of sauce. 

The reason I asked that is that if it's a specific kind of sauce, then maybe the vinegar is essential to it.  It also might be a raw sauce, which would make it very different with the same ingredients.  I've never encountered a tomato sauce with vinegar in it, and to answer the original question I wanted to know just what was that particular person meant by "pomodoro sauce".

I still would love to know if HMC 's recipe called for cooking it or not. 

Ok, sorry, I guess I have too much time on my hands!  (Or, more truthfully, I have way too much to do that I don't feel like doing!)

 

As I said before Chef's have chewed the fat over this one forever and long after us ...still will. My intent Sidiri was not to termanologize specifics, but to try and get the point across that there are many different interpretations to 'Tomato Sauce" there is no one way  I'm sure from your Italian back ground you can relate. I have worked with many Italian chefs and Catered 1000's of Italian Weddings and the Bride & Groom and the "Family", all have different opinions of the different ways they would like the Tomato Sauce on the wedding day !  lol   BTW I did mean to say Pesto OR  Salsa Verde (green sauce) yes I agree with Parsley and I like to add Capers , that is my take on it !....lol)

Gotta go..... I'm walking for MS today 10K

Gypsy
Edited by gypsy2727 - 4/18/10 at 12:18pm
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