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White VS Ramsay

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

I've been trying to figure out how the feud between Marco White and Gordon Ramsay actually started, but I'm coming up dry. Anyone know or have any theories on how it started?

post #2 of 13

As far as I know, the reasons have never been made public.

 

I have eaten at many MP White's restaurants and also most of Ramsay's UK places (including his place in Glasgow that closed almost as soon as it was opened).

 

Out of curiosity - why do you need to know?

post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishbel View Post

As far as I know, the reasons have never been made public.

 

I have eaten at many MP White's restaurants and also most of Ramsay's UK places (including his place in Glasgow that closed almost as soon as it was opened).

 

Out of curiosity - why do you need to know?


I become obsessed with things easily, for the past few months I've been obsessed with everything Gordon Ramsay and now its becoming Marco White. This is just one thing I've not been able to figure out is to how their feud started.

post #4 of 13

"your momma" jokes gone bad....... it's what happened to Arsenio Hall and Eddie Murphy.

"In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. "
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"In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. "
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post #5 of 13

Might be worth a look at this Wiki entry - but it still offers no direct answer/s:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Ramsay#Early_cooking_career

 

Look in his early career section, Marco tells him not to go to France but Ramsay does.  As simple as that?  Losing his protege?  They are both hot headed by most reports- can't get the gist of it myself.

 

Surely not so sinple.

 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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post #6 of 13

White's show went off TV here but Ramsay is adding another show in the late summer. White seemed to have no personality or showmanship where Ramsay is a showman. I had read somewhere that it was over stealing employees.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #7 of 13

How do you do that, Ed? Over steal employees.

 

Only way you can persuade somebody to leave who is happy where they are is to either pay them a boatload more money or provide what are called "ideal" benefits---such as a more copesetic work environment.

 

From what I've seen and read, that's the difference. Ramsey's employees are fiercely loyal to him, for the most part, and stick with him two days longer than forever. The same cannot be said about White. People like to be trained by White, and to put in a stint in his kitchens. But they don't see working for him as a life-long career.

 

In short, working for White may be great in terms of learning and career-development. But his kitchens are not happy work places for most people. So, when given the opportunity, they leave.

 

That many of them who leave do so to work for Ramsey doesn't mean he's stealing them. It means he's providing a better opportunity that they're taking advantage of. If White really cared, he make a greater effort to retain them.

 

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 

From my research I think it started when Gordon falsely blamed white for stealing the reservation book.

post #9 of 13

In New York when you have a third party contact a seemingly happy employee from another employer it is refered to by others as "stealing employees" What would you call it in Kentucky?

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #10 of 13

A third party like a headhunter, Ed? Or a mutual friend testing the waters?

 

I'd call it recruiting good help. Which is what it was called in New York, when I worked there; and in Chicago, when I worked there; and, yes, even down here in the Bluegrass.

 

And, again, happy employees don't leave without significant incentives. If White was upset over the number of staffers leaving to work with Ramsey, why didn't he do a better job of retaining them? People really don't ask for much. They want a relatively decent salary, and they want their contributions recognized. Give them those two things and they'll put up with a lot. Unhappy employees, on the other hand, not only are willing to make a lateral change, they'll even take a pay cut if they think the ideal benefits are worthwhile.

 

But even using your term for it, what is "over" stealing? More than two? More than four? So many that it cuts into productivity and hurts the team? I submit, again, that if that many are willing to jump ship there is something radically wrong with how the ship is captained.

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #11 of 13

(KYH - if you replace "over" with "regarding" in Ed's post, I think that is what is meant. Not as in over cooking a steak  that thought makes  me ill)

 

Ed? 

 

DC

 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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post #12 of 13

This is from White's book, "The Devil in the Kitchen":

"I questioned my friendship with Gordon.  I had given a newspaper interview in which I'd compared chefs to footballers and had wondered whether footballers made good managers, i.e., can chefs be good restaurateurs?  Gordon then gave an interview in which he used the same analogy but against me.  In other words, he suggested that I may have been good in the kitchen but was I good restaurateur? I was annoyed about it but he said he had been misquoted.

There was another incident when Gordon and I were pulled up for speeding and the story appeared in the papers.  Gordon said his PR people must have place it, but I wasn't happy.  I think Gordon can't help himself and he would do it again.

I was also irritated to discover, quite by chance, that he had brought a film crew to my wedding.  They were hiding in the bushes, filming Mr. Ramsey for his Boiling Point program.  I had no idea they were there until about eight months later, when the producers sent me a videotape that contained the outtakes.  Mati and I were happily watching it when suddenly we saw the two of us dressed in our wedding attire, and then there was Gordon, winking at the cameras.

I decided my life would be enriched if I saw no more of him.  It's unlikely we shall ever know each other again.  When I cut, I cut."

 

So going by White's story it seems fairly anti-climatic, he simple didn't care for Ramsey's character I guess.  Then again, that's only one side of it and who knows how much of it has been told.

 

Josh

post #13 of 13

Gotcha, DC. My bad.

 

But the basic issue remains. In an industry in which every restaurant is a swinging door, I can't see any chef getting particularly upset about staffers going to work for somebody else. And, as we see in Josh's post, that likely had nothing to do with the estrangement.

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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