the 3 second rule - Page 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by caterchef 

Have you been in or watched america's processing plants latley? They are the cleanest in the world. Granted it is not a place I would want to have lunch but, their floors are cleaned probably more often than yours. They are video monitored 24hours a day by  the USDA.

Sounds like you have been watching the wrong TV channels. A lot of the stuff you see on TV is staged to improve their ratings. If you want to see something horrible go overseas.

They are not the cleanest in America. Why would I want to escalate the discussion to include the world?

Can you explain to me what happens to a cows digestion from eating corn all day? Do I need to get vulgar to make a point? 

The wrong TV channels lol. I dont watch TV. Maybe you have the wrong rose colored glasses on?

Maybe you want some facts? Straight from the USDA, read on. 

"According to the USDA’s new report:

“Based on our review, we found that the national residue program is not accomplishing its mission of monitoring the food supply for harmful residues. Together, FSIS, FDA, and EPA have not established thresholds for many dangerous substances (e.g., copper or dioxin3), which has resulted in meat with these substances being distributed in commerce.

Additionally, FSIS does not attempt to recall meat, even when its tests have confirmed the excessive presence of veterinary drugs.”

 

More? 

 

 

March 04 2008

In the largest meat recall in U.S. history, 143 million pounds of beef have been recalled by the U .S. Department of Agriculture. The beef represents the past two years of production for California-based Westland Meat, and was recalled because the company did not prevent sick animals from entering the U.S. food supply.

Westland’s partner company, Hallmark Meat Packing, was involved in “egregious violations” of federal animal care regulations. The company did not consistently bring in federal veterinarians to examine cattle that were too weak or sick to stand on their own, and sent them to be slaughtered anyway.

Government regulations prohibit slaughtering cattle that cannot stand or walk on their own for food.

Federal officials have noted that most of the recalled beef was likely eaten long ago, and, despite the recall, likely poses little or no hazard to consumers.

About 37 million pounds of the meat went to school lunch programs and other public nutrition programs.

 

 

 

You can choose to believe anything you want or you can choose to make a logical decision based on multiple facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuan 

 

 

So what?  If you are a professional then you hold up your end of the bargain.  Invoking the three second rule just tells me you don't care about your customers.  If you like your customers otherwise you will care what you serve them.

Your concern would be valid had Halmstad supported the idea of the 3 second rule. He did not. 

Thanks for looking out macgregor. I had no idea i was being slammed on an internet message board for something i never wrote. and caterchef: you don't know what the hell you're talking about. if the fda and usda are so infallible, how is it that people have been poisoned by spinach of all things? and i never mentioned the processing plants, never seen one. i only said that where the animals are raised are disgusting animal waste filled pens. they dump all over each other, get sick, get antibiotics and then start the process all over again. they are fed food they are not built to eat and then live in their own crap. this much is true.

and i never once said that the 3 second rule is okay. only that the meat is already kinda nasty.

thanks for the attention though. maybe ya'll should do a little more research other than watching t.v. and read my posts more thoroughly before you start passing judgement on something i never said.

have a great night!

Halmstead and MacGregor, I believe you missed the point of kuan's post. Regardless, please keep this discussion civil.

who invented the 3 second rule?

Caterchef .Don't know what plants you have been in lately but I disagree with you. The FDA and USDA are worthless. There is no more meat inspection done by qualified inspectors as there are no inspectors. All plants have been put on self inspection. This is a joke. Sure the floors are clean but thats OSHA so no one falls and sues on work-mans comp. The importation of meat from every country and combining and blending of same also hinders any kind of where th bad stuff came from. Meat from Brazil, Hungry,Mexico are all combined.. Recalls don't in most cases reach the public till well after being consumed by the public. Many countries outright refused our export of meat due to mad cow virus and rightly so. Our plants hire no more qualified butchers. Meat is cut by people who are trained to make 1 cut only on assembly type tables and tracks. Most culinary schools don't even teach meat cutting because even most of the instructors do not know how to break down wholesale and retail cuts. In some plants steaks are cut by laser machines.Meat comes pre cut and boxed even to most supermarkets, all some of them do is wrap it in smaller packages. 

As far as 3 second rule  either throw it out or YOU EAT IT.

I disagree with you Ed.  My wife works in the food processing industry.  At my wife's work there is a USDA office.  At all the plants where they run product there's an inspector on site with an office as well.

I have been in 2 plants both packing (meat only0 neither had an on premise inspector both had FDA numbers. One was inspected November of 09 the other Feb 2010. Both sold interstate .

USDA does meat.  In food manufacturing if anything contains more than 2% meat then the USDA is involved.  The FDA does fish and seafood.

Kuan   Tons and Tons of fish were imported into Florida last year, only 20% was inspected by FDA. I think this is pretty dangerous to the public.

Also when I worked in NY we were fed inspected with an inspectors office on premise, I saw him 1 day a week sometimes. I also worked in a Kosher Plant where the rabbi would come in on Friday morning to pick up his check. Did not see him rest of week. All our packaging was marked certified Kosher.???

It's funny with the lack of inspection on fish from foreign sources that it is illegal (at least where I am) to go out and catch a fish from a lake, river, stream, etc and serve it to your customers.  Or wild game for that matter.

    Quote:

Originally Posted by kuan 

I disagree with you Ed.  My wife works in the food processing industry. 

At my wife's work there is a USDA office.  At all the plants where they run product there's an inspector on site with an office as well.

We all disagree, can we agree on that? 

I agree with all the cleanliness arguments and certainly when we're talking about livelihoods, it goes in file 13!

But another take on this,living in Mexico, people eat on the street an awful lot, and I know even myself I have gotten sick from badly washed vegetables (cilantro).  While eating on the street is pretty much a no-no for me, I have to say that most Americans get sick an awful lot compared to people from other countries.  When I first came here that also happened to me a lot.  But my stomach has become accustomed to a larger variety of foods and bacteria I suspect, along with the fact I almost never take anti-biotics.  Which brings me to the question...is there such a thing as too clean?  Because immune systems from up north don't tolerate anything.  Fast food restaurants who apparently have to adhere to strict standards are some of the dirtiest places i've seen.  Here recently I caught some servers make two mistakes, that I saw, within the 5 minutes I was at the counter.  I didn't get sick, although I did report it.  

My mother every time she comes here gets sick and we don't eat on the street, we eat clean at restaurants and home.   I've just accepted that her stomach is very sensitive.

Whaddya think about that?

Well after 27 years in the industry and picking up my fair share of expensive items off the floor (would you not try to skim the top part of the Osetra caviar that didn't touch the floor just for yourself to eat?) I am now working in a private lodge where there are 10 guests who pay 205000.00 a week in an open kitchen concept.  If food hits the floor I try to make it hit the garbage  faster than it hit the floor, with as much of a thud as I can muster... reason?  eyes are everywhere, and so much as ONE second of thought in picking it up, destroys your trust from your client who is seriously paying big money to be there.  How would YOU feel if the Chef you were watching dropped something on the floor then looked around, then put it in the garbage?  It must be a natural reaction without ANY hesitation..... and the only way to achieve that is to habitually throw all floor droppings in the bin with NO hesitation........

I would say all the Chefs that agree on the 3 second rule should put that on their resume, that way they will be back washing dishes and not training cooks............Stupid questions deserve stupid answers.....................ChefBillyB

Quote:

Originally Posted by fryguy 

What your take on it?????

I had a kid drop a 7 kilo roast on my foot during a banquet when he was moving it from the altosham to my carving station.

He asked me what we should do. I just smiled & said he was responsible for that decision.

Such a good kid. He made the only & obvious choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philosophos 

Scott,


By lowering your standards to feeding people meat off the ground, you are contributing to the problem of operating a restaurant honestly and within budget. You are contributing to the problem with that behavior.

Tell me, what happens when someone goes out for a smoke break in a back alley, gets a nice residue of fluids on their shoe, and tracks a little in on to the floor? Are you aware that it only takes about .1ml/kg of ethylene glycol to send someone to the hospital? That's 2ml for a child. Do you really want to sit and guess how much it would take to break the NOAEL and leave a customer feeling ill for the next day? Take a read through the labels on your cleaning products. Glance over the list of ingredients in pesticides. Can I wipe a little residue of that on to your meat, rinse it off, then serve it to you? As Cabotvt said, what about glass?

But you're in BC, and outside of the Vancouver area; I can't be too hard on you. I know what sort of disgusting practices are common place there, as it's where I grew up. Customers don't hit you with a lawsuit nearly so quickly as in the US, so nobody sues for dangerous food. I can't count the number of horror stories from kitchens that I heard growing up that didn't end with people out of their job and a place shut down. Glass in the food, strange puddles of toxic gunk, cooked burgers scooped off the floor, cardboard attached to fried frozen food, rotten meat being served up, the list goes on. I am actually more frightened of the food in most of small town BC than what I'd get off a taco truck in Idaho. Please, do your part to try to raise these standards; don't give in to the crap that goes on.
 

I got glass shards in my pizza in Calgary. Bit into them. It was fantastic.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottS 

Yes that is a sigh of relief form both of us.  Keep chucking out your expensive product and see how fast bankruptcy hits you.  You should be used to that.

Wow...frightening dude.

If being that concerned with razor thin profit margins will lead to you using floor food you might want to rethink your position in the industry.

Windermere, eh? I'm from Golden. Whereabouts are you?

Profit margins will most certainly help to pay law suits and attorney fees, and medical cost  in the event of food poisoning

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookbambi 

Too funny...I like "Is it bacon?" -> "Eat it"...lol

are you a puma? YES? Eat it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabotvt 

. I'll take my chances with 6 bucks every other month.

I agree with you cabotvt...

lets say a bell pepper falls on the floor in the prep area from the box cause the the pepper was just small enough to fit through gap in the bottom.   pepper hits the floor and is picked up straight away and rinced off.   is it useable?  would you use it at home if you did this?

At home, yes (altho I don't order boxes of peppers for home).

Work? IDK. Depends on if I am running short on peppers (or call the vendor and have them rush a replacement pepper to me).

For sure I would chew the ass of whichever vendor sent me a box of peppers that were so small that this would be a problem.

I would think that nearly every fruit and vegetable that comes through a restaurant will get at least rinsed off.  A pepper on the floor?  Big friggin deal.  Wash it off.  Hell, those produce boxes get tossed around and dragged on truck beds, left on city concrete and who knows where the dolly has been. I bed the delivery/packing guys drop stuff every day and plop it right back in the box.  If everyone threw out every pepper, lemon, onion, or tomato that hit the floor we wouldnt have any restaurants.

Un-prepped produce dropped on the floor gets rinsed or peeled. The stuff grows in dirt ferchrissakes.

Where do we draw the line? Often times my orders will arrive and be placed on the floor, and some produce boxes (bell peppers for example) will have that gap and the veg will come in contact with the floor. Obviously to be washed before use. But this is somewhat relevant to this topic.

Personally if its anything that is not washed before use (bread, meats, dry goods) and its dropped, its in the bin.

Drop of sweat falls into the food? In the bin. Drop of grease from the hoods falls into the food? In the bin.