I can't believe the information some of you are sharing........

When you get a bit older like us , it will be your turn to share .

Thank you. :)  There are no secrets.  Just skill and the willingness to work.

If you listen to some of the culinary instructors today they will say " Their is nothing being done today that hasn't been done before." Well, don't you believe it, there are things being done today that has never been done before. And there are things that we use to do that we should be doing today that we aren't. The cooking profession is a learning profession. If you ever get to old to learn, you are to old to cook. In "The Old School" you had to earn a person respect  to learn the trade secrets like "put a little sugar in your tomato sauce to counter react the acid" or " put a little vinegar or lemon juice in your pie crust to add acid to relax the gluten."Nowadays the youngsters expect you tell them everthing because you owe it to them. A lot of the secrets I learned from my mentors have never been written down. If you get a little overflow on this forum you are welcome but their is a lot knowledge that will never be written down, the same as we have lost a lot knowledge when we lost our mentors. So rather than look for the latest book on the market, look for a Chef that has paid his "Dues"  and not his "tuition fees' to a school.

Wow...a media where the the young 'listen' to the old and appreciate it..... must be 'cos it takes care of the different speeds of the generations!

Caterchef  ...recently I got told off for the sugar thing by an Italian Chef friend. He said it was a quickfix because if you simmer out your tomatoes long enough the sweetness will kick in as with a wine reduction.

 Caterchef  .....Well thought, and well said

Nothing against age and experience, but some of the best food I'm seeing comes out of kitchens run -- and well run -- by execs and owner/execs in their late twenties and early thirties. 

I can think of a couple of guys in particular who were culinary forces to be reckoned with on an international scale after only a couple of years in the kitchen.  Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Jeremiah and Jonathan. 

How old would Roger Vergé  have to have been before you'd ask his advice?

Furthermore, some people can put out a good spread day after day for fifty years or more, not know how to give good advice, and remain tools to the end.  In fact, it's not that uncommon.

There's always another hand, isn't there? 

Outside of pastry and baking, I haven't met many people who've learned enough to justify the time and expense of chef school which actually applies to the pressure and individual kitchen idiosyncracies of professional cooking.   But as Fats said, "One never know, do one?"

The point is you ask anyone who may have some insight and hold still long enough to listen to the question, then evaluate the advice on its own merits and as it applies to you.

BDL

BDL

It isn't neccessarily the age of the one you ask but,the sincerity of the one doing the asking.

I started training cooks that became  Chefs when I was 21. It still goes back to earning and giving respect. Don't bother looking it up " it's not in the culinary school reference books."

Just because I hire someone, doesn't mean I have to teach him how to make a bechamel. If he said he was a cook he should know how to make a roux and add milk and seasonings.

As for your term "chef school" it's in the same category as "amature chef " I have never seen one.And to just balance the scales, some of best food I ever eat came from an older Chef's kitchen  and some of the worst from a younger  so-called chef's kitchen.To each his own. "It's my dollar, my choice." I'll take experience over ego anytime.

Well I still like to think of myself as part of this old boys club ...

welcome back

By way of analogy...

In NZ we have Maori and Pakeha....indigenous and white folk with culturally different descision making processes...consensus vs majority rules.

If you ask a question of a class of kids the smartest Pakeha are inclined to jam their hand up then look over their shoulder to see who they are 'competing' with... a group of Maori, down the back might confer then one will casually raise his hand....

Pakeha though I am, I'm inclined to the latter...

I say share it all and let skill and hard work sought it out! 

Well, if we're going back to how we ourselves learned -- it's my experience that the best advice is preceded by a thrown spoon; accompanied by a stream of drunken, German invective; and completed with, "Verstanzen, kollitch boy?  Du got dat?"

Du got dat?

BDL

Titomike,

I could've told you about the tomato sauce and I just started Culinary School a year ago... but I learned that from an old German Chef in his 70's.

BDL,

school actually prepared me just fine for the pro kitchen, in fact my first job involved far more standing around doing nothing than I was used to. I did learn a lot of useless stuff for the job, but I like to learn that stuff... additionally I am learning food management stuff, so if i am tossed into the exec chef position one day, i can actually handle that. its an interesting hierarchy... you cook cook cook for most of your life, then sit behind a desk. if all you know is cooking, that may be a rough transition.

and age matters... taste buds start to go... maybe you don't care as much anymore... maybe your food is too classic... my fav restaurants are also from younger chef's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titomike 

By way of analogy...

In NZ we have Maori and Pakeha....indigenous and white folk with culturally different descision making processes...consensus vs majority rules.

 

If you ask a question of a class of kids the smartest Pakeha are inclined to jam their hand up then look over their shoulder to see who they are 'competing' with... a group of Maori, down the back might confer then one will casually raise his hand....

 

Pakeha though I am, I'm inclined to the latter...

 

I say share it all and let skill and hard work sought it out! 

 

That's so cool...your a Kiwi I never noticed on your threads ....what a wonderfull place. My children's father is from Auckland..and we bungy jumped there!...Food is soooooooo expensive!

Quote:

Originally Posted by caterchef If you listen to some of the culinary instructors today they will say, " There is nothing being done today that hasn't been done before." Well, don't you believe it. There are things being done today that have never been done before, and there are things that we use to do that we should be doing today, that we aren't.

And there are things that we did in the past, that we should have never done and shouldn't try to do again. When I think about the fact that the statin drugs like Lipitor, Mevacor, Crestor, Zocor...are prescribed by the millions because of  the American epidemic of heart disease, due to atherosclerosis, and how we used to slowly poach fish in goose fat, my own LDL numbers spike. There's a tremendous amount we old timers can and should learn from the youth in the industry. We have to listen when they're talking, too.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huy Bui 

Titomike,

 

I could've told you about the tomato sauce and I just started Culinary School a year ago... but I learned that from an old German Chef in his 70's.

 

and age matters... taste buds start to go... maybe you don't care as much anymore... maybe your food is too classic... my fav restaurants are also from younger chef's.

Yeah...I've always used sugar 'cos that's how my mum taught me. Now I have a Filipino household they're just used to sweeter sauces. What surprised me was he described it as something Grandma would do....

I was conflicted...I'm supposed to go against an Italian Grandmother's treatment of tomatoes! 

My own take relates to 80-90% of 'taste' being smell leaving the 5 basics...so I 'round' out a dish, eg aioli, with a little sweetness as you would season 'cos you can't demonsrate balance/dominance/contrast without the thing your dominating/contrasting...but that's just my design training, maybe my buds are past it or too classic!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titomike 

Yeah...I've always used sugar 'cos that's how my mum taught me. Now I have a Filipino household they're just used to sweeter sauces. What surprised me was he described it as something Grandma would do....

 

I was conflicted...I'm supposed to go against an Italian Grandmother's treatment of tomatoes! 

 

My own take relates to 80-90% of 'taste' being smell leaving the 5 basics...so I 'round' out a dish, eg aioli, with a little sweetness as you would season 'cos you can't demonsrate balance/dominance/contrast without the thing your dominating/contrasting...but that's just my design training, maybe my buds are past it or too classic!

I can't ignore this, sorry ......SUGAR in tomato sauce !!!!..say it isn't so.....please OMG! The Italian mamas who invented "THE SAUCE" are rolling in their graves!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSteve 

 

And there are things that we did in the past, that we should have never done and shouldn't try to do again. When I think about the fact that the statin drugs like Lipitor, Mevacor, Crestor, Zocor...are prescribed by the millions because of  the American epidemic of heart disease, due to atherosclerosis, and how we used to slowly poach fish in goose fat, my own LDL numbers spike. There's a tremendous amount we old timers can and should learn from the youth in the industry. We have to listen when they're talking, too.
 

 I don't understand where you are coming from "this is a food forum" not a drug forum.

I was refering to making our own stocks and cooking fresh vegetables instead of frozen.

Where I took my apprenticeship in a 300 room hotel the only freezer  we had was in the pantry for ice cream. When we had to do an ice carving it was about an hour before the event that the ice was delivered. and I have never heard of poaching fish in goose fat. "yucK"

And the only drugs we had in the kitchen was aspirin for a headache.

When I do listen when they are  talking they are usually "asking for more money or time off "or"can I have a steak for lunch or when are we going to air condition the kitchen"

If you are refering to the younger so-called chefs with their "cookbooks  and degrees" I think they still have got a lot to learn yet, although some are trying, so are "too smart already"

I don't think talent has an age. There are both young and old people out there who have tons of talent in this field. This business is all about constant learning. If you don't continue to learn, you will be left in the dust. What I do see in some of the younger people though is a penchant for "extreme" in their flavoring. For instance, I like a dish with spice to have a slow burn on the back of my throat. Most spicy dishes produced now burn my lips and tongue so bad I can't taste anything for hours, so I avoid these dishes when I am out. There doesn't seem to be any place for subtle flavoring left in today's cuisine. That's why I always think a "taste" should be at least three bites. That way as the flavor lingers on your tongue, you can tell if it's too salty etc. for someone eating a whole portion. I make a soup that's more or less a thin shrimp etouffee. The first bite doesn't taste like all that much. As you swallow, you get that slow burn I mentioned earlier. Your tongue starts to pick up the different flavors and you're thinking, wait, let me taste that again. The flavors start to build, and the heat increases in the back of your throat. By the third bite you're hooked and start to really shovel it in. Customers love that soup when we have it. It doesn't give up everything it has in the first bite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsy2727 

I can't ignore this, sorry ......SUGAR in tomato sauce !!!!..say it isn't so.....please OMG! The Italian mamas who invented "THE SAUCE" are rolling in their graves!

Me neither....do you usually ignore me?
Ummm...  well...  aah......yes!     Is there a rule?

Perhaps, he was just denegrating grandmothers in general but...

http://www.epicureantable.com/articles/atomato.htm

or

http://goingglutenfree.blogspot.com/2007/07/chinese-sweet-tomatoes.html

They are a fruit after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsy2727 

 

That's so cool...your a Kiwi I never noticed on your threads ....what a wonderfull place. My children's father is from Auckland..and we bungy jumped there!...Food is soooooooo expensive!

I am a kiwi.

it is....
Wow !.....?.    ...and you got pregnant?

YES!.... Ed, was saying 2.99 for chix brst I think I'm paying ...USD 4.45!

I can't ignore this, sorry ......SUGAR in tomato sauce !!!!..say it isn't so

Where do these "rules" originate? The Sicillian grandmother from whom I learned to make red sauce always included sugar, so as to prevent bitterness.

Maybe you want to tell her she was wrong? Not me.

within my sicilian family, we used cinnamon, and red wine, which in turn sweetens the sauce while cooking, much like sugar, well wine is sugar really...never met  2  italian families who didn't argue about how to make the 'sauce' and who made it best....i remember very loud vocal arguments, in very rapid italian, over almost every sunday dinner....

after reading this very interesting thread, albeit  at times maybe a tad too much testosterone,(joke), it got me to wondering...where are our mentors now, our past influences?...forgione, greer, waxman,lydia,tower, jean-louis, waters..not only did they influence me, but they influenced a whole country...a whole food revolution/evolution began...they made food interesting and fun and not so 'uptight', for lack of a better term.....are they still cooking? teaching(i hope), living the pura vida somewhere? we all need to do our part to teach, nuture and share...we've got to engage in each other and share our ideas...

my two cents,

joey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titomike 

 

Me neither....do you usually ignore me?
Ummm...  well...  aah......yes!     Is there a rule?

Perhaps, he was just denegrating grandmothers in general but...

http://www.epicureantable.com/articles/atomato.htm

or

http://goingglutenfree.blogspot.com/2007/07/chinese-sweet-tomatoes.html

They are a fruit after all.

     

I am a kiwi.

it is....
Wow !.....?.    ...and you got pregnant?

YES!.... Ed, was saying 2.99 for chix brst I think I'm paying ...USD 4.45!

LOL....touche...I don't think I have ignored you...and yes you  Kiwis have a  charm about you...that gets girls..... well in the family way...hahahahaha   

I don't understand the whole sugar sweetening the sauce concept...considering tomatoes are sweet ...depends on the ones you use. Basil is sweet...I only sweeten with natural vegetables and herbs in the cooking process like carrots, onion, sweet red pepper.I have worked for Italians for years ...Banquet Halls, Caterers to Fine Dining. Notta one used sugar.

Whatever makes your boat float I say do what works if ya lika the sugar...add the sugar ..no recipe is set in stone.

I say make it just like mama used to make and you canna notta go wrong..if ya know whatta mean ...lol

well you do what floats your boat and makes your guests happy... i ate at a horrendous Thai place that goes far too heavy on the sugar, in my and my families opinion, but a family came up after their meal and told the chef how great everything was... and the restaurant is successful.

well i dont add sugar, i just cook it for hours until it turns sweet.. and its a sweet that you dont get by simply adding sugar, plenty sweet for me though. best tomato sauce i ever had. like a lot of things i have eaten in my life, i didn't really like tomato sauce until i made it. problem is i dont have time to make it... if i want a pizza, i'm not about to make my own crust and sauce, i just dial up a pizza place and order light sauce.

i love spicy food, so i always try what people consider to be the hottest... usually it is pretty lacking, but thai food and hot wings sometimes get it right. i am the ghost pepper hot wing eating champ at a wing place, but that is a bit much for every day eating... i prefer just a tad less spicy. when i cook for anyone, i keep the heat to a minimum... just enough to add another dimension to the dish. of course, some people cant even handle black pepper, so you gotta be careful.

Also, cheeseNbacon, I love your screen name. If you were cheeseNbaconNbread crumbs, we would all have to bow down as that is the holy trinity for covering up/ fixing stuff. Didn't turn out right; doesn't taste good? No problem, add some cheese and bacon and you have a hit. Doesn't look so good? Throw some bread crumbs on top, put it back in the oven to brown and they won't be able to load it on their plates fast enough. Have something that should qualify for Federal disaster assistance? No problem. That's why God made bacon, cheese and bread crumbs. Load 'em all on, and youl'll get your own food show. I was at a friend's house one time, and in the process of checking on the Thanksgiving pumpkin pies, her mother managed to dump one upside down on the oven door. I voiced my dismay, and she said "Shhh, don't worry about it, I'll fix it and they'll never know." I couldn't see how, but I had also never seen a true genius at work. She shovelled the filling off the oven door back into the pie, covered the top with walnuts and then sprinkled some sugar over the whole mess. She was right. You never saw such a good looking pie. It was the first pie they dug into, and anybody who didn't get a piece whined about it. Now I know why God made walnuts. Oreos too. You can hide anything under a layer of crushed Oreos.