Approval or appreciation of "Foodies"

Off topic but do you disbelieve in punctuation? That was hard to read and break apart into meaningful sentences.

I think that the ones who are trying to toss around the terms are doing so to impress their fellow diners.  When I go out to eat, I go out to eat and enjoy myself, not to sit with some guy at the table who is going to show off his knowlege to me. People seem fascinated by the professional kitchen and I've actually met people who have watched HK and think that anyone can do it.  That isn't the case.. restaurant work is hard and it is not for everyone.

All of us need to eat and we all have kitchens in our homes, and well.. we all cook.  All of us do it  differently and we gear what we make towards our own tastes.. some people make it from scratch, others use prepackaged foods but fact is we all prepare food to some degree.  Some people like to experiment with recipes and try new things, others stick with the same seven dishes every week with little to no variety (my mom was the latter.. she hated cooking but did it because she had to.. in her defense my dad was very picky and hard to please when it came to food so no wonder she got to hating it)

Worst thing that has ever been said to me at a dinner party after they found out my career and at the time I was the kitchen at the cafe... "oh you are a foodie, then?  I'm  a foodie too you must love your job"  and I replied with ( and I had to be nice because it was my husband's work Christmas party)  "yes I love food and I enjoy spending time at home making different dishes and trying new things but my job is different and I have to operate differently there.  I have to be aware of everything, know when I'm getting low on something and get backup cooking right away, deal with changes, deal with remakes, deal with complaints, special diets, food costs, health inspectors, critics... it is a  passion yes but also a job and I am being paid to do it properly."  They said they had no idea so much was involved but admired that I was able to do it .

I myself have little patience for the food enlightened patron/drunk/stoned or just idiot who must stoke there ego by dissecting the food/service/atmosphere and such else. If your stuff is good then you can rule that kind of BS very easily and with grace make them look like the fool they are!

In a lot of my old establishments we ended it with a quick phrase " I am sorry you are not enjoying your time here, perhaps you should have sex and travel"? The guest would always respond with a "what do you mean by that" ? Our line was always "I guess its time for you to take a friggen hike". We do not want or need customers like this and to weed them out is a boon to the regulars who also enjoy the show and the support of a friendly place to eat........

OK, I am a hard A$$ at times but hey, its your show so just run it.............

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatch 

Off topic but do you disbelieve in punctuation? That was hard to read and break apart into meaningful sentences.

 

Ditto, analogous to having a seven course meal on a single plate, it is all there, I think it is "tasty", guess I'm getting old...
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbo-One 

Well phatch no fooling you, please point me to the rocket science forum

Looks like you found it 'cuz.............This is it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbo-One 

Well phatch no fooling you, please point me to the rocket science forum

One must be a rocket scientist in order to use punctuation? Holy crap I think I'm overachieving.

When at a restaurant The wife and I will often discuss the food. What ingredients we think were used, what techniques, etc. We are not critiquing the food so much as trying to learn from the chef, through his food. That assumes of course the food is interesting, if it is boring or bad we don't really talk about it, we just pay the bill and never come back.

   It could be some of the talk is a function of the quality, or at least price of the food. Nobody is discussing texture and aroma in a Denny's. That said I will admit it is incredibly annoying when someone comes into the hospital after spending 15 minutes on the internet and tells me how to better treat grandma. When that happens I typically (and with great empathy) use my superior experience and knowledge to explain how they're wrong; usually with bigger words than are really necessary.  Of course it's always harder to argue matters of opinion.

Yah-butt...

Boynurse, your post is good, and yet it reminds me of a "Herman" cartoon, where Herman is lying in a hospital bed, ringing the duty-buzzer non-stop and the nurse comes in and tells him:
"Just remember, every time you ring that buzzer, I'M the one who'll be removing the stitches.'

Nurses always find a way to win.....

I have patience for those who ask a zillion questions and who are genuinely interested. For those who are trying to "catch" me, I can usually get them to admit they know nothing.

Example:  I run a chocolate and pastry store, and have a "show room" where I do my chocolate work. Even though I have a door that is kept closed, people find a way to open it when I'm in there, and ask me "stuff".

"ahh, so those are your tempering machines, I guess you don't really have to temper, the machines do it all for you".

"No, those are chocolate melters, basically just a giant soup warmer with a very sensitive thermostat.  I temper every batch by hand, every day.  Could you please close the door?  Chocolate work is very temperature sensitive".

Some days I wish I COULD pull stitches though....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbo-One 

Well phatch no fooling you, please point me to the rocket science forum

Rocket scientists generally have phd's, most people learn to use punctuation before they are ten. Just sayin'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-boy-nurse 

One must be a rocket scientist in order to use punctuation? Holy crap I think I'm overachieving.

 

When at a restaurant The wife and I will often discuss the food. What ingredients we think were used, what techniques, etc. We are not critiquing the food so much as trying to learn from the chef, through his food. That assumes of course the food is interesting, if it is boring or bad we don't really talk about it, we just pay the bill and never come back.

   It could be some of the talk is a function of the quality, or at least price of the food. Nobody is discussing texture and aroma in a Denny's. That said I will admit it is incredibly annoying when someone comes into the hospital after spending 15 minutes on the internet and tells me how to better treat grandma. When that happens I typically (and with great empathy) use my superior experience and knowledge to explain how they're wrong; usually with bigger words than are really necessary.  Of course it's always harder to argue matters of opinion.

In the event you clicked through to this topic from the front page, this is the professional chefs forum. Feel free to read, but posting is reserved for foodservice professionals.
 

I've never actually seen a chef come out of the kitchen and get in a guest's face for using affected vocabulary to criticise the food.  At least not here in the U.S.  It not only makes perfect sense in France, but is mandatory in Paris. 

BDL 

I have no problem with a "foodie" who is just showing off or expressing his/her appreciation for the hard work that goes into our craft. What I cannot tolerate is the ones who feel they have the credentials to critique, do so loudly, and harp on the finer points as if they had a clue.

It's hard not to be a critic especially when we can be and are our own worst. Those that say they never judge when they are out cannot be telling the truth. It's literally beaten into us working up trough the ranks. Yeah you may not be saying things out loud but c'mon....under your breath or in the back of your mind the thought is there....or maybe it's just me and I am that old and cynical (cantankerous).

The more people become educated through the venues listed above, the more there will be those that want to show off. It wasn't too long ago.... we as Chef's were screaming for a more enlightened public. But in some cases knowledge breeds......negative things and society breeds the know-it-all expert. Everyone has an opinion, no matter how factually true, twisted, distorted or even edited. Speaking of editing....... I would bet to say that the majority...if not all of the content that is provided for viewing has been edited and presented out of sequence for the biggest impact. I mean take He!!'s Kitchen. How many orders of scallops being burned or raw chicken or fish were sent to the pass before he (Chef Ramsay) decided to go postal? Then again....be honest.......at least for me the guy is doing nothing didn't think of doing myself if it were the 3rd, 4th or 15th time but couldn't because I had to contend with a touchy feely HR department or a set of Owners that wanted their Chef to be "different than the norm". But Hey....as far as the editing goes.... if it can't happen through the natural course of events then by Gawd we will make it happen one way or another. We are becoming a society of over reacting pundit's with an ever expanding  umm err uhhh...... I mean shrinking audience. Too many chiefs Chefs in this case and no injuns. Just hope that sooner than later those that are left will change the channel. I have.

This is not an exact quote but it's what I remember of watching the 60 Minutes episode with Chef Jose Andres sort of re-worked or edited to fit this conversation.

We (as American Chef's) should be more outspoken about the way we feed America............Here's my addition.....We should also be more outspoken about the way we allow ourselves as Professionals to be portrayed in the media as well as the level of education that exposure is creating. People will only mimic what they are exposed to yet if we expose them to more of the "right stuff" then hopefully they will mimic that as well. This would be good even for the strut of the Know-it-all

Reminds me of a conversation I had a while back. I came out of the kitchen and recognized one of the guests. We talked food for a bit, the guys wife turns and says, tell him about that Cajun thing you made. He hesitates and says in a smug tone "I don't want to give out my secrets". This was said after I answer about 10 cooking questions in a row.

Of course, I say nothing. The conversation trails off but in my head I'm thinking "riiiight, here I am, out to steal your Cajun recipe. Part of my plan all along". and then -  "you know, I usually charge for cooking advice as part of our classes".

If you find yourself in a group of foodies, talking foodie stuff, just make up an ingredient that you swear is the most amazing thing you've ever used, like Wild Austrian Hedgeberry. Make sure they know that it has to be Wild Austrian or it's not the same. Watch their heads spin and then imagine them googling for 3 hours when they get home.

What's this?  Paragraph II, section (b)(iii), of the Line Cook Job Description in the  Employee Manual?  Cooking sure has changed since I left the business.

BDL

try working at a country club!!!! I got 480 foodies and wine snobs....so I really have to dig deep to keep it new and fresh for the same people you see over and over again.....and what am I going to say to them??...I'ts thier club

For many of us, foodies are the ones who make our jobs possible.  Sure, bad attitudes are a despicable thing.  I have my moments as well.  I just hope my professionalism always holds when my emotions go from simmer to rolling boil in an instant (and no, it does not always, and yes, it can be a cathartic release when it does not, but it's almost never a good thing in the end).  One thing that I always try to bear in mind is that even God acts as a servant.  No matter how big you are, there's always something bigger than yourself.  Of course, it's impossible to satisfy everyone all the time.  For those chefs who have the luxury of free reign, kudos to you, and may you never lose sight of the value in that, for those whose job it is to try their damnedest to do the impossible and make everyone happy, best wishes!  

I live through the critique situation almost every night.

As a Private Chef the client has every right to expect their food to be what THEY want, not what the Chef thinks it should be.

I have to re-create some of the family favorites, and when they don't come out as expected, I get "This is not how I make it."

Well DUH! I can't re-create a memory.....

The I have to listen to the client explain how this is made or how that was done, so the next time I make it, the boss will be happy.

I used to go through this at least 4-5 times a week, but after all these years, I still get a critique every once in a while.

If I want to make Coq au Vin it must be Julia Child's recipe. If I want to make Onion soup, it must be Michael Fields recipe.

One thing though that I feel is worth saying again is that as a Chef we can educate our clients only so far.

People have their likes and dislikes. If a person is open to new and different creations this is good. Most people are plain eaters though

and will not always be as willing to try something out of the ordinary.

I remember I got this, the first time I served a made from scratch pasta......"Spaghetti is all I eat, and it has to have red sauce."

I served them bow tie pasta a la cabonara.

OK, now what?

However much I can relate to this thread, in the end, it's about pleasing the customer, irrespective of my cooking abilities.

Chefross and Iplay....some great insights. There is one thing I would like to add to your thoughts or maybe try and change through wording. It helps the my perspective with things so many years ago and was so simple too. It came from all places.....the "Theory ramblings" of a Casual Theme restaurant I worked for many times and for several years. Basically nothign more than good, solid common sense customer service principles and ideas.

Treat every customer as an honored guest.............To me this is every customer and notr just the ones we like.

I took some self brainwashing but after a short time I could no longer view them ans paying customers. And, no matter if they were a regular or the person from another area jus passing through, I wbegan to listen to them each with the same intensity.

It was mentioned that you can only teach so much. I disagree. You can never teach enough. If that were the case then why would one of the worlds greatest percussionists.....Neil Peart....take the time so late in his career to relearn technique. In our field, Jose Andres or Marco Pierre White are great examples of reaching for more or even reaching back to things once done and allowing for an expansion or rethinking of already gathered knowledge. Not trying to sound preachy but I say this because it's amazing the things that I have allowed myself to become aware of in just the last few months by opening up my mind to more knowledge. But then that is the key.....those that we are talking about here must open up their minds. 

Hey BDL you, Old school and myself never had manuals.

The CIA was a storefront started by a lawyer lady across the street from Harvard for training G I s coming back from Korea. There were no celebrity chefs, TV dinners were in their infancy, supermarkets had real butchers, Graham Kerr and Julia were around showing us how. A french knife for $150.00 or 200.00 unheard of. Convection or microwave??? Foodies?? Jicamma or Star fruit??  When out for dinner with friends, I never critique when the ask me, I tell them straight out I don't do that you be the critic..

 Years ago w e were shown the kitchen and told ""Here you work here with Joe, he will show you"" In other words  JUST DO IT>

I like foodies.  You tell them you're a chef and you're an instant celebrity.

Then they get smart and all of a sudden realize we know nothing at all!

Ed -- Right on.

Maybe I was just lucky, but I never had that kind of interaction when I was on the line -- not because I was the world's greatest cook but because there just weren't ever many customers in the kitchen.  Any and all  necessary and unnecessary criticism was provided by Chef. 

"Du got dat horensohn kollitch boy?"

I got the usual competitive remarks from "foodies" when I catered, but no big deal.  I was (a) paid to be there, and (b) took a lot worse in some of my other jobs -- often for less money.   

Besides, what could they say?  I'm insecure enough to evaluate each dish far more critically than any reasonable guest or client.  If Wolfgang Puck's schweinskotlet was better than mine, it didn't come as news.  If someone's wife did it better, he was a lucky man. 

If someone had poppyseeds in a very sour cabbage while she was in Vienna on business the other week and was impressed enough to rave about it to me, it was worth giving some seeds and a splash of good sherry vinegar a shot. 

BDL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg 

 

 

In the event you clicked through to this topic from the front page, this is the professional chefs forum. Feel free to read, but posting is reserved for foodservice professionals.
 

That's exactly how I got here, Sorry I'll pay more attention from now on.

 

I like foodies that appreciate food and have a general knowledge about cooking so you know they appreciate what you are making.

I dislike foodies who know everythign about food and want to discuss the fat % of Kobe steak or some other vague topic that they are counting on you not to know so they can lord it over you.

Hard to say, to me it would be like going to the dentist and discussing the merits of amalgm fillings verus UVcured epoxy.

did anybody notice what it say's under "Chef Talk" ........" a food lovers link to professional chefs" I guess this is the place for foodies to be....LOL

I am the house caterer for an inn that has closed its kitchen.  The owner wanted me to do ham and pineapple on toothpicks for a wedding he had booked.  I told him that although I personally loved ham and pineapple on toothpicks :-( people were much more sophisticated about food these days due to the media and we have to step it up to get bookings. In fact, as nicely as I could, I told him I don't want him doing any menu planning with the clients!

The fact that there are so many foodies these days is good and bad.  I love food and spend a lot of time trying new things, I cater, own a cafe, and love to eat out.  I do not, however, enjoy talking about food like a scientist (rocket or otherwise).  Maybe it's because I'm inadequate in that regard, but I find people like that are bores.

Hey Ed, you just touched on a topic I've been thinking about lately. I've been trying to remember what was in the produce section of the grocery store when I was a little kid. I only remember iceberg lettuce, cucumbers, green peppers, onions, the basic stuff. There was no romaine, mushrooms only came in cans... Late in the summer there would be crates of peaches and pears with little hammers near-by so you could open the crates, unwrap the peaches or pears and check for ripeness and condition. My mother would open several before picking which ones she wanted. There were not nearly the number of items available today. I like to watch He!!'s kitchen. I sometimes picture myself in the person's place when they're guessing what something is while blindfolded and wonder what Ramsey would do when I answered "I have no idea what this is Chef, I've never tasted this before"? Things like broccoli rabe. I have never seen it anywhere nor had occasion to taste it. It was simpler when we had less to choose from in some ways, but not so interesting.

A lot of it depends on where you were brought up, GreyEagle.

When I was a kid we didn't have produce departments. We had neighborhood stores; a greengrocer, a butcher, a bakery, etc. Being in a multi-ethnic neighborhood, our greengrocer stocked a wide array of products. No as many as are available today, to be sure. But far beyond the basics of iceburg etc.

Long before Alice Waters codified it, almost everything was fresh, locally grown, and seasonal in those markets. American cities were, in those days, still surrounded by truck farms, and the progression was: farm---terminal market----local market or restaurant.

Bringing this back on topic, though, I think it important that a differentiation be made between foodies, as such, and snobs. Foodies, to me, are people with a passion for food and how it is produced, prepared, and served. Sometimes that are more technically involved than is, perhaps, necessary. But they bring an appreciation of food to the table unlike any that's appeared before in America.

On the other hand, food and wine snobs have always been with us, and always will be. Long before the foodie trend you could hear them pontificating, and showing off for chefs, and trying to intimidate wait staff.

I'll never forget one time we were visiting out-in-the-sticks New Hampshire. We're in a restaurant that's maybe one notch above being a spaghetti shack and in comes a couple. They look at the menu and notice a dish made with mussels. In a voice pitched so that everybody in the place can hear him, he asks the 17 year old waitress, "Are those black mussels or green?"

Obviously, she hasn't a clue what he's talking about. Mussels are mussels, far as she's concerned. And, maybe, before starting as a part-time waitress after school, she didn't even know that much. "I'll have to check," she says, and goes into the back. Emerging a few minutes later, she tells him, "they're just the regular purple ones." Which, of course, wasn't good enough for loudmouth, so he and his lady friend left.

What I'm saying is that he was a snob and an arse. But don't blame it on his being a foodie, cuz there weren't no such thing back then.

If the foodie thing has provided snobs with more soapboxes, that's unfortunate. But it's something I'm willing to accept in light of the broader real knowledge foodies possess.