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Current Spanish Cuisine?

6K views 50 replies 15 participants last post by  steve tphc 
#1 ·
One of my chef instructors brought up something interesting in class the other day that made me want to look in to the subject. I personally haven't had the chance to visit very many Hispanic restaurants and I've only been limited to what's available in my area. While there is quite a large number of Mexican and Tex-Mex restaurants I'm not sure if what they serve are up to date with what other restaurants might be serving in Arizona, California, Mexico, etc. If anyone is working are eating in any of those areas I would love to know all about it.
 
#4 ·
To me. FWIW, "Spanish cuisine" refers to the cuisine of Spain and "Mexican cuisine" refers to the cuisine of Mexico and though there ARE some similarities, there are far more differences.

In Porterville, CA, we have a multitude of "Mexican restaurants" and a dearth of "Spanish restaurants". Actually, many of the "Mexican restaurants" are Guatemalan and  Ecuadorian rather than Mexican.

For you, as a "culinary student", my feeling is that it is important for you to differentiate cuisines and you "topic line", to me, is misleading.

From you post, you are really interested in the regional differences of Mexican, or possibly Latin American cuisine as offered in the Southwestern United States and Mexico. Is that correct?

To further "narrow it down", are you talking about "street food", like tacos, enchiladas, etc., or more upscale food such as that prepared by Rick Bayless?
 
#5 ·
You confused yet, Rainliberty?

Understand, please, that we are not dumping on you. But as Pete tried to point out, although a home-cook can, maybe, get away with confusing cuisines you're going to be a professional. And, as such, it behooves you to be as correct as possible. And in that regard your post is ambiguous.

I'm curious as to exactly what your professor said that sparket the discussion.

With the proviso that there are numerous regional variations, in general, if you say "Spanish," you mean food that represents the cuisines of Spain. "Spanish," other than as a language, has little relationship to Latino or Hispanic foods. In fact, because of the commonality of language, the same word is often used to describe radically different dishes. F'rinstance, a Mexican tortilla is a flatbread. But a Spanish tortilla is an omelete-like dish (well, more like a fritatta than a classic omelete.)

"Latino" and "Hispanic" are generally used interchangeably to describe the vast region of Central and South America. Although there is no hard and fast rule, the Carribean, even though there are hispanic roots, is mostly considered as a separate region, because there are vast culinary influences that never, or hardly ever, touched the mainland. And specialized ingredients as well.

But you're really better off looking at specific countries when trying to focus in on a cuisine. For instance, while the countries of South America have much in common, they have much more that is unique to them---even before you start looking at regional differences within each country. So you might want to develop the habit of saying, "Brazilian," food, or "Argentinian," than saying Latino or South American.

Here endeth the sermon.

In terms of Mexican, per se, there really is a difference between most Mexican food and Tex-Mex food. You could almost think of Tex-Mex as being its own regional Mexican food.

Most Americans probably use "Mexican" and "Tex-Mex" as synonyms. The result is that, unless you have a Little Mexico in your town, any "Mexican" restaurant is most likely to cater to that viewpoint, and it's menu will reflect it.
 
#6 ·
Sorry for the confusion on my part. The question my teacher asked was, "How many of you have ever eaten at a fine dining Spanish restaurant?". The conversation that followed after was mostly about Tex-Mex or chain restaurants (Los Charros, Frontera, etc) from my fellow students. I don't believe however that anyone had actually been to what I would consider an upscale restaurant. This made me want to find out if there was more to the cuisine than tacos and enchiladas. So to be specific, I want to learn more about the current foods from Mexico.
 
#7 ·
Sorry for the confusion on my part. The question my teacher asked was, "How many of you have ever eaten at a fine dining Spanish restaurant?". The conversation that followed after was mostly about Tex-Mex or chain restaurants (Los Charros, Frontera, etc) from my fellow students. I don't believe however that anyone had actually been to what I would consider an upscale restaurant. This made me want to find out if there was more to the cuisine than tacos and enchiladas. So to be specific, I want to learn more about the current foods from Mexico.
 
#9 ·
So now I'm even more confused.

If he said "Spanish," and what followed was a discussion about Tex-Mex, it's possible that your instructor doesn't understand the difference. And to me that's unconscionable!

If I were asked that question I would interpret it to mean an upscale restaurant serving Spanish food. That is, food representing the cuisine of Spain, or some region of it. Piperade, in San Francisco, might be an example.

If he meant "Mexican," that's what he should have specified. A fine-dining Mexican restaurant. Some of Rick Bayliss' places, perhaps, would qualify as that.

As to Tex-Mex, there are very few, if any, Tex-Mex restaurants I would class as fine-dining. Most of them are, by definition, family places---good food (albiet with a limited menu), reasonable prices, congenial atmosphere. They would, perhaps, be fine dining when compared to a taco stand or to many of the chains (Taco Bell is a lot of things, but fine dining ain't one of them!). But you don't expect candlelight and fine silver.
 
#10 ·
Yes, that was the question my teacher asked. It wasn't however a topic that we were going over in class, but it somehow turned into a 30 minute discussion among the students. She may have meant food from Spain exactly but didn't elaborate. My fellow classmates brought Tex-Mex food in to the conversation, while I on the other hand wanted to know mostly about upscale Mexican cuisine. (ex. Frontera Grill)

Session data
 
#11 ·
IMHO "Spanish fine dining" is FAR removed from anything relating to Tex-Mex and/or Mexican/Latin American. Even Rick Bayless, I think, will agree that his restaurants are Mexican, not Spanish!

Although "Spanish" restaurants might serve a "tortilla", it would look nothing like a Mexican tortilla.
 
#12 ·
Also an answer to the question of is there something else then a taco or enchilada in a fine dining Mexican place, yes. You will find that fish and chicken and good grilled beef and pork are a part of the cuisine. vegetables as well, cause it's also not all about rice and refried beans either.
 
#13 ·
More than agree, Pete. Rick would, I believe, insist on it. He's not the one who's linguistically confused.

And the fact is, Mexican recipes of his for things like Octopus and Cactus Paddles in Escabeche and Smokey Chipotle Beans with Wilted Spinach and Masa "Gnocchi" are as far from a Tex-Mex burrito as they are from such upscale Spanish recipes as Oil-Poached Salt Cod with Alboronia, or Grilled Lamb Chops with Salsa de Pasitas Rojas and Fennel Salad.

My point being that Tex-Mex is a specialized cuisine of its own, which I think of as rustic, primarily street-food oriented, and heavily spiced. Not only is it not Spanish, it's not upscale Mexican either.

I think what we really have is a case of a teacher who either doesn't know the difference between "Spanish," "Mexican," and "Latino," or who doesn't care. Certainly if she actually meant Spanish she should have corrected the class as soon as the discussion wandered off. If, on the other hand, she's using "Spanish" and "Mexican" as synonyms, shame on her. Far as I'm concerned, that would make her unqualified for the job she's holding.
 
#16 ·
I would not start with Basque cuisine as an example of Spanish cuisine. Surely if you asked a Basque what they think, they wouldn't identify their cuisine as an example of Spanish cuisine. Yes, there are Spanish influences to the Basque cuisine (from the south), just like there are French influences to the Basque cuisine (from the north). But I wouldn't call it Spanish anymore than I would call if French (ok, maybe a little more Spanish than French). A "poulet basquaise", for example, is considered a French regional dish and you will find it in many French culinary books as a typical French dish.

But Basque cuisine really is its own cuisine. Remember, you're talking about a people who have their own language, their own culture, their own music, their own dances, their own sport games... and certainly their own cuisine.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I was being facetious, FF.
I know - I wasn't really addressing your latest post, but your earlier recommendation for look at Piperade, in SF, as an example. I should have included the quote to avoid confusion.

I see your point however re: Catalonia. I guess the Basque country is not the only one with a culture of its own, a language of its own and that spreads over both Spain and France. Just goes to show how highly regional cuisines from latin countries such as Spain, France and Italy can be. I mean I wouldn't think of Corsican cuisine as French cuisine, but it's not Italian cuisine either. And in a sense, Corcica's identity can be thought of as more clearly defined than the Basque country's identity or the Catalonia identity... Which makes it complicated to define a "Spanish" cuisine!



 
#19 ·
Plus, Spanish cuisine is still emerging from the Franco repression. So what we see, on both the regional and national levels, is a rediscovery of traditional and artisan foods, on one hand, and the gee-whiz, cutting edge work of chefs like Ferran, on the other.

but your earlier recommendation for look at Piperade

I was trying to use a West Coast example, hoping the OP would know of it. But, more generally, any of Jose Andres' restaurants would typify Spanish fine dining.

Which makes it complicated to define a "Spanish" cuisine!

Or an Italian one. Or Greek. Or any other country that is, at best, a federation of culturally similar peoples. Or, worse, which are that plus having distinctive ethnic minorites. Is the food of the Montagnards part of Vietnamese regional cuisine? Is Algerian cuisine Berber, French. or Arabic?

Where my people come from invaders raped their way through about every 20 years, leaving bits of their culture and cuisine behind. How do we go about identifying something that eclectic?

I wouldn't think of Corsican cuisine as French cuisine,......

What we have, in cases like that, is cuisine defined by politics. Because Cosica is part of France, we would identify a dish as being French, but in the Corsican style. However, because Malta is an independent country, we recognize the amalgum of Italian, Turkish, French, British, Tom, Dick, Harry and their girlfriends influences as forming a distinct Maltese cuisine. What if Malta was part of another country, though?

Which is one of the reasons I've always disliked "fusion" as a culinary term. IMO, all cuisines are fusion, and, as such, make that qualifier either redundant or ridiculous.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Interesting stuff, but we're wandering pretty far afield. I think Jose Andres is a pretty good example of what's happening with modern Spanish cuisine in this country.

On the other hand, it's hard to put a finger on Rick Bayless's cuisine. It's a lot more Mexican inspired than it is Mexican. And I mean that in the same way I mean Jose Andres's cooking is Spanish as opposed to Spanish inspired. Bayless's cooking is too chef-like and just too much Rick Bayless for me to call it Mexican. That's not an indictment or anything, just an opinion. It's fair to say that it's a very broad, fuzzy line and Bayless is somewhere on it which is a way of not taking a stand -- but there you go. Bayless is great, so is his cooking, but there's something about the way he's viewed as the God of Mexican Food that makes me squirm.

There's just so much good Mexican cooking that's been here for so long, for so long the cuisine has been undervalued, and then this pinche gabacho comes along, and... well, it's just not fair. I can't help wonder if it isn't slightly racist, but that could just be my paranoia.

And, fwiw, I see "south-western" cuisine -- with Tex-Mex as a subset -- as being more authentically Mexican than Bayless. But that's how you find it, I suppose.

Quite often the Mexican food you get here in el Norte, especially along the border, is very much influenced by the areas producing most of the immigration. Mexican "street food" by which I suppose you guys are mostly talking about tacos, burritos, sopes, gorditas, and the like actually has a lot more in common with "real" Mexican food than many of the dishes on the menu in the "American" oriented Mexican restaurants which cover everything with tons of melted cheese.

BDL
 
#22 ·
There's just no end to it.

Exactly.

It's also why I get so amused whenever the question of authenticity is argued.

I didn't know there were still Jewish Berbers. Thought that alliance had come to an end around 700 CE. Another interesting subculture in Algeria, though, is the Pied Noir---the French Sepharadic community, which has its own distinctive cuisine as well.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I didn't know there were still Jewish Berbers. Thought that alliance had come to an end around 700 CE. Another interesting subculture in Algeria, though, is the Pied Noir---the French Sepharadic community, which has its own distinctive cuisine as well.
And that would be where all my culinary inspiration came from! My family is pied noir. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
we're wandering pretty far afield.
My apologies.
 
#25 ·
Perhaps a better way to look at it may be to define a cuisine by the regional goods, not the specific dishes that it's made into to. Regional cuisine could be thought of as food cooked with all things regional to that area. Yet the way current chefs use those ingredients may be an interpretation of the current times.

What you do with the ingredients is, and always has been, up to the person cooking the food.
It's also why I get so amused whenever the question of authenticity is argued.
Oh KYH...I know you get amused. But...

I can still see good reason to seek out classical interpretations of regional cuisine. It may be true that it can be hard to nail down...and many times it can be impossible. My view is that I believe there is value in something that has stood up to the test of time. But, many times we (society) get lazy and seek out ways that may be easier or what we believe is more "current". While doing this I don't believe we're always serving in our own best interest. This is why I do find value in seeking out a quality (sometimes classical) interpretation of how to treat the ingredients in certain preparations, over accepting today's standard with no investigation.

Probably one of the most important things I learn when I seek out an authentic recipe is usually good technique. Learning the technique is what allows me to step outside of the recipe, yet retain confidence to the dish.

KYH, I just want you to know...I'm ok if you're still amused /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif

dan
 
#26 ·
One of my chef instructors brought up something interesting in class the other day that made me want to look in to the subject. I personally haven't had the chance to visit very many Hispanic restaurants and I've only been limited to what's available in my area. While there is quite a large number of Mexican and Tex-Mex restaurants I'm not sure if what they serve are up to date with what other restaurants might be serving in Arizona, California, Mexico, etc. If anyone is working are eating in any of those areas I would love to know all about it.
I have to admit, I'm another one who was excited to see a thread on Spanish food.

I don't know if I'd worry so much about a restaurant serving food that's up to date, current, or cutting edge. What I care about is execution...and the quality of a dish. It doesn't matter if it's fine dinning, a franchised place, a small diner, street food or a smoker sitting in the front yard. It's all about execution.

I suppose I've eaten at fine dining Mexican restaurants, I've also eaten the street food in Mexico and in Chicago. All of them can be very good.

Tex-Mex? I just haven't really been exposed to anything I would call good Tex-Mex. I'm guessing it may be due to my location???

take care,

dan
 
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