or Connect
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Cooking Discussions › Food & Cooking › Current Spanish Cuisine?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Current Spanish Cuisine? - Page 2

post #31 of 51

   Hi Pete.  Your right, it was poor use of the word while trying to make my point.  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcCracken View Post

IMHO, there is a huge difference between "classical", "authentic", and "typical", and they are NOT synonyms!

 

 

post #32 of 51


 

Quote:Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer View Post (edited by gonefishin to shorten)



Perhaps a better way to look at it may be to define a cuisine by the regional goods, not the specific dishes that it's made into to.

 

This would be an interesting approach, Dan, providing that, 1. historically humans hadn't been so mobile, and 2. political boundaries weren't arbitrary.

 

 

. To use your approach, there could never be such a thing as California cuisine; there would have to be five (or more) different ones, all of which were contained in the politically arbitrary region called California. 

 

. It's not the specific dishes that mark, say, Italian food. It's how an Italian (whatever that means) would typically look at the foodstuffs that are available, and use them to prepare a final dish..  

 

 

 

     I'm fine with the migration of people and goods from one area into another and the influences that they bring to that land.  I don't think this clouds the description of regional cuisine, instead I believe it defines it.  I also have no problem dissecting California cuisine into various categories, defined by region.  I don't think you can constrain Californians into a single type of cuisine anymore than you can say Italians throughout Italy would treat an ingredient in the same manner.

 

  I can't say I like either of our views.  Maybe it's a mixture of both or something completely different.

 

 

   dan

post #33 of 51

I sometimes refer to Spanish food as food from areas formerly controlled by Spain.

 

It varies quite a bit, even in Latin America, ex. Dominican Republic is different from Cuba, both are different from Mexico.

 

Dominican Republic, they eat a lot of goat, Cuba, is pork, rice and beans, plaintains.  Mexico, lots of stuff with dried chiles, pork, beef, chicken, etc.  Spain, at least in Valencia, they eat a lot of Paella (Traditonally rabbit and snails), tortillas(omletes), Tapas are real big there, seafood, had some sub sandwiches a couple times for dinner while I was there too.

post #34 of 51

Maybe it's a mixture of both or something completely different.

 

Obviously I have no disagreement with that at all.

 

The problem is, though, that we do use liguistic shortcuts to describe cuisines. While we know, for instance, that Tuscan and Sicilian approaches are different, we still lump them as Italian. The Basque people may not think so, but we do include them as part of Spanish cuisine. And, to put a point on it, those who even know about French Fries' culinary background think of it as part of Algerian cuisine.

 

So the question becomes, where do you draw the line? When do related cuisines become separate? Answering those questions is particularly difficult in the Federation-type countries.

 

To my mind, that is the crux of the OP's question. What, exactly, was meant by the word Spanish? And was that usage correct?

 

Most people, I believe, would not consider Mexican or Latino cuisines as Spanish. The influences of radically different ingredients, ethnic contributions, and appoaches to cooking are so different as to make them unrelated in anything but language.

 

Unfortunately, because many people do use "Spanish" and "Mexican" as synonyms, real Spanish cuisine has remained generally unknown to most Americans, and is only now coming into its own.

 

 

 

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
Reply
They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
Reply
post #35 of 51

I sometimes refer to Spanish food as food from areas formerly controlled by Spain.

 

I suspect, Abe, that you're not alone in that. That is, indeed, a functional definition of the term Latino---except, of course, that it leaves out Brazil.

 

I have multiple problems with that approach. First, it degrades the  culinary contributions of the colonized countries. As you note yourself, Mexican is not Central American, is not Carribean. So to lump all of them as Spanish is demeaning to all the cultures involved.

 

Next, and related to it, it ignores that fact that culinary development is a two-way street. If you consider the radical influence that New World products had on Spanish cuisine, you could just as easily reverse the nomenclature; that there is no Spanish cuisine, as such, but, rather, what they serve in Madrid is Mexican (or maybe Peruvian?) food.

 

Sounds silly when put that way, doesn't it? But there is no reason, culinarily speaking, to favor the colonizer over the colony.

 

Finally, it becomes a question of where (or, more likely, when) the lines are to be drawn. If we accept that "Spanish" describes the cuisines of any area formerly controlled by Spain, then we would have to describe all the cuisines stretching from Venice to the Moroccan border as "Turkish." Or, if you want to go back even further, all the foodways of the Mid-East, parts of India, and parts of North Africa would have to be described as "Greek."

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
Reply
They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
Reply
post #36 of 51
Thread Starter 

Wow...I wasnt't expecting so many replies. First and foremost I think you will all be pleased to know that my chef meant spanish cuisine as in strivctly from Spain. It is now an assignment . That being said, I do not know if it is ok by you to use any information that has been posted in this topic so far in the assignment. If it somehow seems that I am somehow plagarizing or not doing the research for myself; please feel free to no longer reply or delete any previous post that have been made so far. Once again, thanks for all the help, it has encouraged me to do look into a lot of different subject tht I hadn't thought of so far, specifically regional cuisine within ones country. For some reason it never occured to me that the U.S is not the only country that has different foods depending on where it's located. I thought all Italian food was just Italian

post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainliberty View Post

Wow...I wasnt't expecting so many replies. First and foremost I think you will all be pleased to know that my chef meant spanish cuisine as in strivctly from Spain. It is now an assignment . That being said, I do not know if it is ok by you to use any information that has been posted in this topic so far in the assignment. If it somehow seems that I am somehow plagarizing or not doing the research for myself; please feel free to no longer reply or delete any previous post that have been made so far. Once again, thanks for all the help, it has encouraged me to do look into a lot of different subject tht I hadn't thought of so far, specifically regional cuisine within ones country. For some reason it never occured to me that the U.S is not the only country that has different foods depending on where it's located. I thought all Italian food was just Italian


I doubt anyone will want to redact anything. food gets more complex the more you look at it. 

"In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. "
Reply
"In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. "
Reply
post #38 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer View Post
 ...are so different as to make them unrelated in anything but language....

 

 

Actually, even the language, though it make be "called" Spanish, may be unrelated

 

It is fascinating to watch someone who speaks Castillian Spanish try to communicate with someone from Northern Mexico or El Salvador.

 

It is like watching a New Yorker, a Georgian (US, not USSR), a UK "public school" graduate, and an Ozzie trying to converse in a social setting without getting into a fight or, at the very least, a total misunderstanding, i.e. if you hear "take the lift  to the tube" do you REALLY know what was meant?
 

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #39 of 51

Rainliberty: Feel free to use anything I've said here, especially as a springboard for further research of your own. In that regard, you might want to look for a copy of Spain And The World Table, which, I'm sure, will provide insights.

 

I would suggest, though, that if you use anything from this discussion you attribute it as "discussion held at Cheftalk.com forum," or some such. You'll still want to confirm the opinions expressed with other outside sources as well. In other words, don't just rely on us, but do some work of your own. That's whey it's called research.

 

do you REALLY know what was meant?

 

Wasn't it Winston Churchill who first described the Brits and Americans as two people separated by a common language? The same can be said for many other similar groups. Friends of mine who grew up thinking they spoke Italian were shocked, for instance, when nobody understood them. Turns out they were talking a Sicilian dialect, not the imposed common languge called Italian.

 

My favorite is the story Brendan Behan used to tell. Brendan was stopping at a youth hostel when a group of Americans came in, part of a bicycling tour. One of the girls mentioned that she had lost the group's only alarm clock. "Not to worry," himself told her, "I'll just knock you up through the wall."

 

There is a pause that can only be described as pregnant, and Behan remarks: "This is not the first time I've had problems with the American language."

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
Reply
They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
Reply
post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer View Post

...My favorite is the story Brendan Behan used to tell. Brendan was stopping at a youth hostel when a group of Americans came in, part of a bicycling tour. One of the girls mentioned that she had lost the group's only alarm clock. "Not to worry," himself told her, "I'll just knock you up through the wall."

 

There is a pause that can only be described as pregnant, and Behan remarks: "This is not the first time I've had problems with the American language."


And I'll just bet there was a "shag" on the floor and somebody was probably smoking a fag, right?

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #41 of 51

I'd be doubting the shag, me boyo, not in a hostel. But I weren't there at the time. As for the fag, more'n likely, in those days.

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
Reply
They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
Reply
post #42 of 51

I think we have to make it clear that even an at-home chef like me sees a vast difference between Spanish (Castelian) and Mexican food. I don't know if anyone responding to you so far is Latino, but my Latino friends, who are Mexican-Americans, would be offended if you called them or their favorite foods Spanish. You wouldn't have asked this way if you wanted to know about Cuban food, right?

 

Mexican food here in southern California varies as much as more traditional American food. You have a much larger variety of Mexican fast food here than in other states. Q'Dobo and Baja Fresh, they're better than Taco Bell. Del Taco's in between. Then you have sit-down restaurants charging anywhere from about $7 a meal to more than $30. Just as at an American restaurant, the better/fresher ingredients and the better ambiance there is, the more you will pay.  We also have a lot of stores that are like grocery stores, except they are owned by Latinos and cater to the Latino market. 

 

You said you have clarified your assignment and you want to know about Spanish food, not Mexican, right? I have not been to a good Spanish restaurant, but there is one near here called Sevilla and my friends who have been there love it. It is in Riverside, California. I am sure there are more in Los Angeles. However, southern California would not necessarily have more good Spanish restaurants than anywhere else, because while it is heavily influenced by Mexicans, it is no more influenced by Spain than any other far-away country.


Edited by Ellen Porter - 1/30/12 at 12:44pm
post #43 of 51

By: Margcata.

1) The Inside Facts on Iberian Peninsula Cuisines:  

Spain which shares The Iberian Peninsula with Portugal to the west, Catalonia which consists of 4 distinct provinces, The Basque Country, Navarra, Galicia on the northwest coast, Castilla León with 6 provinces, Madrid Capital and its´ upstate sierra, hill country, Valencia, Alicante, Murcia, Castellón, Asturias, the 4 Balearic Islands, the 7 Canary Islands, Celta, Mellila, Extremadura, La Rioja and the 8 Provinces of Andalusia have all been a melting pot of an enormous variety of cultures, each influencing the cultural and agricultural mosaic of Spain, and the Iberian residents.

2) The Celts, The Greeks, The Romans, The Moors, The Medieval Ages, The Inquisition and the Convents, The Exploration to the " Americas & The Caribbean & the East Indies", The French, The Germanic and thus, the invasions, in addition to the numerous Emigrants ( Expats ), Immigrants and Refugees from uncountable countries, have influenced Iberian gastronomy.

3) Let me skip over a history lesson here, after living and working here since 1996. The Iberian Peninsula cuisines are profoundly steeped in " Unified Multi Regional Cuisines " with each province broken down into " Boroughs or Counties " called Comarcas, and each producing its agricultural raw materials that the zone is best suited to. For example, Galician Fish, Shellfish and Octopus, Navarran White Aspargus, La Rioja Red Wines, Catalonia´s Calcots, which are a Spring Onion - non surpassed, Murcia´s tomatoes, Valencian Rices and Jabugo, Huelva´s Acorn Fed Cured Ham; etcetra.

4) The evolutionary modernity of the XXI, with Chef Ferrán Adriá once at its´ helm for a decade 2000-2010, and prior, Luis Irizar the mentor of Pedro Subijana and Juan Mari Arzak, the founders of Basque Haute Cuisine; and their disciples and the new generations proceeding with Luis Andoni of Mugaritz, Quique Dacosta, Jordi Roca etcetra.

5) Disciple of Ferrán Adriá, CHEF JOSÉ ANDRÉS: With 6 of his 7 Washington D.C. restaurants / tapas bars and one Spanish Restaurant in Los Angeles, Californa, The Bazaar, he too is a disciple of Ferrán  Adriá and the promoter for Foods and Wines of Spain in North America ( located in New York City ) and very much a believer in " The Products of Spain and culture awareness " .

6)  Mexico: has a parallel diversity as in each of its´ regions, there exists a gold mine of Mexican indigenious products for the culinary world. However, MEXICO IS NOT SPAIN AND SPAIN IS NOT MEXICO. The penchant for chili peppers and piquant is only veered toward the Galicians with their Padrón Green Chili Peppers, The Catalans with their Cayenne, The Riojans, The Navarran and The Basques with their Piquillo Red Pointy Peppers and their Cayenne and the Extremadurans with their La Vera Pimentón smoked paprikas.

7) Spain´s cuisines are as varied as different parts of the U.S.A.; for example: What one may regularly eat in California, is a whole different ballgame in South Carolina, Nebraska, Hawaii or Louisana.  

8) The average working Spaniard, is still fairly geared toward their own traditional cuisine as shown in their variety of stews, soups, and local produced products.

9) Fusion exists worldwide, however, in major Iberian Cities, if one wants Mexican, they go to a Mexican restaurant, moreover, they cook their Iberian Peninsula cuisines.

From one who knows.   

 

 

 

     

 

post #44 of 51

Jose Andres show Made in Spain is a great educational show.....Hulu carries the series.

We're so lucky to have Margcata explain her Spain for Cheftalk members.....thank you!

cooking with all your senses.....
Reply
cooking with all your senses.....
Reply
post #45 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer View Post

Hold on, Pxatkins, you know there are only two: Basque---and all the others.


 

It's good I know you were joking, because I know a few Gallego chefs who would consider them fightin words.lol.gif

 

My personal favorite is Cochinillo de Segovia.  Veal haters and their like may crucify me for it, but it is THAT good. smile.gif

post #46 of 51

yes, margcata, thank you for sharing with us your cuisine, experiences and recipes.

joey

 


Edited by durangojo - 2/5/12 at 9:56am

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

Reply

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

Reply
post #47 of 51

 

@ Joey, Durangojo

 

My pleasure and thank u kindly for such a lovely note.

 

Enjoy superbowl.

Kindest.

Margcata.  

post #48 of 51

 

@ Chef Hoff,

 

Yes, there is quite an ancient art to the Segovian suckling piglet ... This roast hails from the Inquisition, the 1490s ... It is a delicacy, I assure you.

 

I posted the recipe on RECIPES about 3 months ago --- look for it, as it is so simple to roast it.

 

Galician cuisine: this is heaven on earth too, however, completely different. Some of the best shellfish comes off the coast. On the northwest Atlantic, hailing from Brittany, as you know, fish and shellfish and ocean species Migrate ... individually or in schools ... The route is Galicia to Brittany and reverse. The tenderest octopus I have ever had was in La Guarda, in Rias Baixas, southern Galicia, a few minutes from the Portuguese frontier ... Lovely lovely province chock full of history ... Santiago de Compostela, Rias Baixas, Ourense and Ribera Sacra wine country, Monterrei, Valdeorras wine country ... this is wine and food paradise ... many indigenious greens too and the home to coffee liquor, smoked pork shoulder called lacón, padrón pimiento peppers with their heat served with sea salt ... well, it is a stunner zone ...  

post #49 of 51

 

@ SH room girl,

 

Yes, it is a cool diverse way in which to learn about a niche cuisine and how to prepare something different ... he is quite an accomplished chef, and studied under Adriá as well for many years.

 

Glad u like the programme.

post #50 of 51

i am sitting on a beach in the sea of cortez in sonora mexico, so will have to find a beach bar with it on, which won't be too difficult...it may be difficult to find it broadcast in english however...but then again except for the commercials and madonna's half time show, what does it matter what the language is?!! actually although it is totally 'unamerican' i will most probably skip it all together since it's a late game...my new york husband however will certainly be watching from some bar stool!....

joey

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

Reply

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

Reply
post #51 of 51

Your question is apples and oranges. Fine Spanish food has little or no resemblance to Mexican cuisine.  Mexico has 31 states and the regional food differs from one state to the next. "Tex-Mex" is regional Mexican-American cuisine that uses US available ingredients patterned after Mexican cuisine.     The best way to learn to appreciate, and then cook these cuisines is to learn to eat the food. Not only will the experience be pleasurable but you will learn what the various dishes should taste like. You need to buy authentic ingredients, which mean you need sources that sell them.

 

I want to speak to chilies just a moment. In Spanish and Mexican cuisine, these are heavily represented in their food. It not easy – a recipe may call for say “chile powder” but what does that mean exactly. I have over 40 varieties of peppers and many of them come from Mexico but not all. There are over 500 varieties to pick from. Some are fruity, aromatic, spicy, and hot or mild; some chilies flavor (spicy) lingers or does not. A good recipe tells what chilies to use but will vary by region. Chilies flavor may vary if grown in a hot climate or if fully ripe (grown until the turn red.)

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Food & Cooking
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Cooking Discussions › Food & Cooking › Current Spanish Cuisine?