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Best knives??? - Page 5

post #121 of 137
I have to apologise for having ignored your remark on large knives. A shorter knive with a relatively large cutting board contact area is a santoku, as it has no arrow tip like a gyuto. An excellent santoku is the Hiromoto AS 190mm, it still has a quite usable thin tip. Mine feels longer than a 210mm gyuto.
post #122 of 137
I'm not avoiding the question but if you get bored and have extra time there are countless "good" threads here on the topic of lower cost j knives, and many including the one in my signature that address some of the differences and how to help one determine how to find what's best for them.

That said a lot to do with making a good suggestion or even decision has to do with your technique, experience, and personal preference.

If you don't like or feel comfortable with a 240mm then a 180 or 210mm may be a better choice.

Remember that many j knives will sell in 2 yrs used about what they were new, and most of the ones I have had, seen or used were more than acceptable and well above the popular Western brands so much as I worried in the past it's hard to make a really poor decision if you go with most of the brands with good reviews here.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #123 of 137
Are you so sure you'll be able to sell them in two years for the same price? That supposes a further appreciation of the JPY against the USD. If that were the case replacement won't be easy.
post #124 of 137

Originally Posted by phatch View Post

 

The hollow grind is very thin behind the edge which is very good for shallow delicate cuts. But it gets thick very fast at the top of the hollow grind. This creates a lot of wedging in the cut compared to other grinds as a generalization. 

 

A hollow grind is the cheapest way to grind a knife. Least work, least tooling. Now, there are shallow grind heights and high grind height that can affect how it cuts to some degree. And rarer still is a hollow grind on a large wheel, say 14" or more so that it's more like a flat grind in many ways. 

 

The shadow line on this particular shun leads me to think it's not that high of  grind, topping out into the kullens maybe. I'm not sure as the usual shadowing of a hollow grind is usually more distinct.  If so, they've done some smoothing on the transition from hollow grind to the flat of the blade.

 

In this case I think the question was meant to be about the "Hollow edge" or "Cullens" or "kullenschliff" or whatever that the Shun Kaji has.  The above above is certainly all true with respect to hollow grinds, but the discussion is actually about what Shun likes to call a "hollow edge".  To my knowledge Shun chef's knives are not hollow ground...

 

Just wanted to clear that up for Anoop. The dimples on your blade do no harm, just know that they don't really help unstick food as the manufacturers claim.

 

from the WS website:

 

 Hollow-ground indentations on the blade reduce friction and minimize sticking for exceptional release of everything from summer tomatoes to hard cheeses.

post #125 of 137
They do harm. They reduce the blade's lifespan considerably, make good thinning impossible and are above all ugly.
post #126 of 137

I agree with Benuser.

 

I only have one knife with kullens - a MAC MTH-80 Pro series 8 inch gyuto "with dimples".  I bought it to compare with other knives, including other MAC's.  I was decidedly not impressed.  

 

On that blade, the kullens on each face of the blade are offset, so that each kullen does not align with a kullen on the opposite face of the blade.  That way, there is much less chance of unnecessary weakening of the integrity of the blade at any single point.  Even so, the blade had to be thickened to compensate for the grinding away of the kullens.

 

On the pictured Shun Kaji on WS's site, the width of the individual kullens and the distance between kullens appears to be almost the same - which suggests that there is potentially minimal material between the individual kullens on opposite sides of the blade - or that the knife had to be thickened to compensate for the thinness between kullen areas on each side of the blade.  Either situation is just plain bad.  Either the knife is thicker than it really needs to be (with wedging and future thinning problems) or it is weaker than it should be.

 

No thank you for kullens.

 

 

Galley Swiller

post #127 of 137
Hello every one
I'm a new guy here but found this thread very interesting and containing a lot of great information.
For what my 2¢ is worth:
I have been a pro chef for about 30 years, I can remember more "knife fads" then I can count I also have more knives then I can count. That being sad I find the old saying to be true, it's not the knife but the chef that uses it. Most chefs have horrible knives and most have no idea how to maintain them, it's sad but true. I will admit that the younger guys (and gals) coming in thes days do seem to have a bit more respect for the tools of the trade then those back in the days when I was 1st starting out (IMHO).
Now as for shuns, when they 1st came out I jumped right on board, I loved them! At the time I had no clue how to sharpen a knife nore at the time did I care to learn. So what I dis was I got two identical sets (10" chef, 6" petty, and one of there single beveled yanagi's) and I used there "free sharpaning service". When my "every day set" got to dull I mailed them away to get sharpened and had the "back up set" to use when they were away, I did this for over 10 years. So with that in mind there are worse ways you could go then a shun. Note I no longer own any and consider them more trouble then they are worth.
2nd about 8-10 years back I stumbled onto a websight were the guys were talking about sharpaning on a belt sander (specifically the one made by Delta and the cheap one sold by Harbor freight). The most useful thing I got from reading all of that was that for under $100 you can keep your knives razor sharp with little to no skill. With a $35 belt sander from H.F. A "specialty" leather belt that fits it ( sold by a lot of stores online) and some green or diamond " polishing" or "honeing" compound you essentially have a "power strop". I run my knives a few times across the belt every day (probably the equivalent to once a month for a home cook) and find myself only haveing to sharpen my knives about 2x a year (probably about the equivalent of 10 years of home use). Note: I'm not talking about sharpaning on a belt sander, which can be done with great results. However that requires a decent amount of skill and practice. But "power stroping" on a leather belt requires no more skill than using an electric knife sharpaner (may be less)...and the little H.F. Sander is very light (maybe 20lb?) and no biger then a vita-prep (well maybe a little bigger)
That's my 2¢ for now, great sight guys.
post #128 of 137
Welcome aboard, CM-Chef!
post #129 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benuser View Post

Are you so sure you'll be able to sell them in two years for the same price? That supposes a further appreciation of the JPY against the USD. If that were the case replacement won't be easy.

Though just like the wall street guru's disclaimer that past experience is no guarantee of the future my expectations are that there will not be any major changes in currency exchange, but either way I would not expect to see the typical yearly increases in prices (everyone in business looks forward to those lol) go away anytime soon.

In my personal knife rack the age ranges from 2-5 except one much older odd ball, and I see them all selling higher used now than I paid new.

I'm sure there will be exceptions, but even using the 79.00 shun that was mentioned previous I wouldn't be surprised if it sold above on an eBay auction etc.

I guess the main point was that there was not 100% exposure if one is not able to return.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #130 of 137
If you aren't a collector, but a user, that present market value of your knife is only interesting if you have to insure it. Of course you may sell it, but the replacement knife will have risen in price as well, and eat your profit. Not to speak of the part shipping costs will take.
post #131 of 137
The only knives I have (or had) that increase in value are the ones I got before they became collectible. I was one of those chefs that everyone though was nuts for buying a $500.00 Kramer back when cook's illustrated first wrote him up. Then even crazier when I payed $800 for a Damascus knife made by him. That knife proved to be better than any stock I've ever invested in LOL.
post #132 of 137

I can't say that the kullens on my Ikon slicer do anything good, in fact I think they create drag when I use it to carve a chicken.  Well actually I think in some instances they do contribute to food release.

 

But I do admire the precision with which they were applied.  This knife has a pretty thin profile so they are of course staggered from one side to the other, and I have a min of 2 mm from the edge to where they begin, so even if eventually I did reach that far back I would still have a usable edge with the thinning that would be needed anyway, especially if I did a little concaving which would be interesting.  And I am so used to seeing them that at this time I would miss them if they were gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM-Chef View Post

The only knives I have (or had) that increase in value are the ones I got before they became collectible. I was one of those chefs that everyone though was nuts for buying a $500.00 Kramer back when cook's illustrated first wrote him up. Then even crazier when I payed $800 for a Damascus knife made by him. That knife proved to be better than any stock I've ever invested in LOL.

 

I've wanted to read that article.  Am I right when I say they were comparing his fully forged and carefully sharpened blades to the likes of outofthebox wusties, henckles and sabs?

 

 

Rick

post #133 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post

I can't say that the kullens on my Ikon slicer do anything good, in fact I think they create drag when I use it to carve a chicken.  Well actually I think in some instances they do contribute to food release.

But I do admire the precision with which they were applied.  This knife has a pretty thin profile so they are of course staggered from one side to the other, and I have a min of 2 mm from the edge to where they begin, so even if eventually I did reach that far back I would still have a usable edge with the thinning that would be needed anyway, especially if I did a little concaving which would be interesting.  And I am so used to seeing them that at this time I would miss them if they were gone.

I've wanted to read that article.  Am I right when I say they were comparing his fully forged and carefully sharpened blades to the likes of outofthebox wusties, henckles and sabs?


Rick
If they were comparing to a TI carbon I think that's a fair comparison sort of. They're handcrafted IIRC
post #134 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post

I can't say that the kullens on my Ikon slicer do anything good, in fact I think they create drag when I use it to carve a chicken.  Well actually I think in some instances they do contribute to food release.

But I do admire the precision with which they were applied.  This knife has a pretty thin profile so they are of course staggered from one side to the other, and I have a min of 2 mm from the edge to where they begin, so even if eventually I did reach that far back I would still have a usable edge with the thinning that would be needed anyway, especially if I did a little concaving which would be interesting.  And I am so used to seeing them that at this time I would miss them if they were gone.

I've wanted to read that article.  Am I right when I say they were comparing his fully forged and carefully sharpened blades to the likes of outofthebox wusties, henckles and sabs?


Rick
Worse he was beat out by forschner victorinox LoL. He didn't even rank, he only got honorable mention. They admitted his knife was superior to the rest but that it's unreasonable price tag priced it out of the competition. Cooks illustrated is funny about letting people read their articles they make you have some sort of subscription in order to see back issues?? But Bob used to have a copy of it on his site, don't know if it's still there?
post #135 of 137

CI gives no such options on their site, at least to non-members, and I never saw the link on Bob's site, doesn't sound like it would impress folks nowadays.  Bob is  definitely a fine craftsman, but much like other knife makers he both welcomes and actively contributes to the tall tales.  And even working in 1095 any decent bladesmith at the time would have turned out a knife quite noticeably better than an au Carbone.  I remember back in the 80's I had a chance to buy a Bill Bagwell 10" Damascus Bowie right from Bagwell for $800, and that thing could take quite an edge and hold it well.  I don't think he was yet calling it a Hell's Bell.  An acquaintance had one made to his own specs (which I believe eventually evolved into the HB) and asked Bill to make him a cheap replica he could use for practicing throwing, to which Bagwell only had to say, "All of my knives are meant to be used, period!"  I believe that now they are selling in the range of Kramer Knives.

 

 

Rick

post #136 of 137
The article that started it all

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post #137 of 137
Thanks!
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