Best knives??? - Page 2

I'm pretty sure Fujiwara FKM and the Tojiro DP series would be fairly described as the Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla of J-knives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zdawgnight 

[..] I am obviously no expert but this website is amazing for information. I'd also like to share that my 1st quality knife I bought was a MAC petty and wow it is a dream to work with.

Indeed I found this website very useful when I was researching cooking pots.  I eventually settled on Fissler and only bought 2 pots of which I only use one regularly.

Thanks for sharing the info about the MAC.  So far, I think I like looks of the Tojiro DP (suggested in a reply to this thread) better.  Call me shallow, but I kind of prefer things look aesthetic. :D

At this point, it almost feels like I can get away with a couple of utility knives for what I'm looking to do.

I have a Misono Swedish steel 300mm sujihiki and absolutely love it.  First thing I used it for when I got it was corned beef, which put a nice purple patina on it.  Care is not too bad -- wash and wipe dry, and place in saya after each use.

Dont get to caught up in all the knife nonsense. Tojiros and Fujiwaras are fine knives and in the hands of someone with good knife skills fine everyday professional tools.I've seen more young cooks walk in to my kitchen with beautiful J knives that all have lousy edges than I care to admit. My advice would be to by something like a fujiwara/tojiro and spend the time and energy learning how to get the most out of them.

Cheap and sharp beats expensive and dull any day. Understand it's perspective, most professional kitchens at one time or another have had some sort of knife service, heavily ground, cheap steel knives. They probley are the backbone of the industry here in the Midwest. Now take a cook whose experience has been these knives and give him a sharp Forschner. It's typically a big jump in quality, easily recognizable by most everyone who uses it. Give that same person a entry level J knife and the Revelation is even more pronounced.

My point is that many of the contributors in this forum want to bash the Honda's and Toyota's of the knife world which is foolhardy to say the least.Now don't get me wrong, many of the regular contributors are well informed and sensible( BDL, phadeus, Mark from CKTG come to mind ) very learned and with a solid professional prospective but many are just shooting their mouth of with no real understanding.

For most of us it doesn't stop at one knife, just begins there. Go to a reputable website, buy something reasonable and live with it for a while. Chances are you'll form your own opinion, figure out what you really like in a knife and before you know it you'll be driving your Honda to the knife store for some more knives.

Are there any "brick and mortar" stores that carry Tojiros and Fujiwaras?  Or would I pretty much have to order them over the 'net.  I kind of like to see before I buy, even if it's a few dollars more.  Would like to see how it feels in the hand.

They have them in various stores in New York Chinatown, because those stores also supply the sushi places owned and operated by Chinese immigrants.  Chances are quite good that the same would be true of Chinatowns in whatever major city you live closest to.

You can price out what you want, go to one of these, ask to handle the thing, and decide then where to buy it.  In Chinatown stores, you also typically have the option to offer to pay cash for a small discount (maybe $5 or $10 off depending on the sale amount).  Just know that that means that as far as the store is concerned, the sale never happened, so there would be no taking it back if you do that.

If the prices are as good or better online and you decide you like them, by all means handle them at the store and then go home and order them.  Chinatown stores are not known for having return policies.

Well, I love my knives.  I have several different makes and kinds, but I find myself using my 10inch Mercer, standard Le Cordon Bleu issue, accept for the length of course, and I really like it a lot.  It keeps a fairly decent edge, so long as you hone it and take care of it...  It also has pretty good balance and is very maneuverable; it feels good in the hand.  She's my pet lol... 

How did I get this weird cupcake avatar?  I don't remember setting it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capsaicin 

I'm pretty sure Fujiwara FKM and the Tojiro DP series would be fairly described as the Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla of J-knives.

Which would you pick between those two and where would you recommend ordering them from online?  I don't think I'm going to be able to get to a Chinatown any time soon.

Each has its good points.

Tojiro has a harder edge (60-61) in VG10 which is pretty much stainless, while the Fujiwara FKM stainless line is a little softer (58-59).  Fujiwara carbons are about 60 but you'll need to take care of it.

Tojiro has handles that some people find uncomfortable.  I'm okay with them.  It's also clad construction while the Fujiwaras are monosteel.  Don't know if that makes a difference to you.

If you want stainless I'd go Tojiro.  If you are willing to take care of non-stainless steel, then it's pretty much even in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capsaicin 

Each has its good points.

 

Tojiro has a harder edge (60-61) in VG10 which is pretty much stainless, while the Fujiwara FKM stainless line is a little softer (58-59).  Fujiwara carbons are about 60 but you'll need to take care of it.

 

Tojiro has handles that some people find uncomfortable.  I'm okay with them.  It's also clad construction while the Fujiwaras are monosteel.  Don't know if that makes a difference to you.

 

If you want stainless I'd go Tojiro.  If you are willing to take care of non-stainless steel, then it's pretty much even in my opinion.

Thanks.

What sort of care needs to be taken for the Fujiwara?  I would definitely prefer something that doesn't require a lot of careful handling,  I tend to leave my knives along with other utensils rinsed in the sink until I get down to actually washing them at the end of the day.

Fujiwara makes both stainless (FKM line) and high carbon non-stainless (FKH line).

Carbons need to be cleaned and dried basically as soon as you can.  Leaving one in a sink wet for hours invites rust.

Anoop

Care for carbon steel isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. You need to be careful to avoid prolonged exposure to acidic enviroments and not let them remain wet for to long as this invites rust. I would however caution against leaving your knives in a sink. It's a bad practice at best, never know when someone puts there hand in there looking for something and isn't careful. I've seen bad cuts happen that way. In fact in my kitchen, it's a fast way to get fired or even worse your fellow cooks/dishwashers pissed at you.

If your not going to take care of your tools just buy some Forchners and save your money

If you're going to go cheap, might as well go cheap all the way with the $12 Miu stamped.

Most Japanese knives, including the Tojiros and Fujiwaras, have a very different geometry than what most people are used to -- much flatter edge.  While the Forschner is a perfectly respectable option in either home or pro kitchens, it still has a lot of belly.  So it depends on what the guy is looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capsaicin 

Fujiwara makes both stainless (FKM line) and high carbon non-stainless (FKH line).

 

Carbons need to be cleaned and dried basically as soon as you can.  Leaving one in a sink wet for hours invites rust.

I guess I was looking at the FKM...since they are both stainless, I guess

the FKM might be better because of the handles?

Anyway, I think I will order a petty knife and see how that feels before buying

anything else.  These guys seem to have it for $35.00 which is cheaper

than the Tojiro and other websites that sell the Fujiwara.

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKMSeries.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by V lou tay 

Anoop

Care for carbon steel isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. You need to be careful to avoid prolonged exposure to acidic enviroments and not let them remain wet for to long as this invites rust. I would however caution against leaving your knives in a sink. It's a bad practice at best, never know when someone puts there hand in there looking for something and isn't careful. I've seen bad cuts happen that way. In fact in my kitchen, it's a fast way to get fired or even worse your fellow cooks/dishwashers pissed at you.

 

If your not going to take care of your tools just buy some Forchners and save your money

What about washing immediately, but then letting it air-dry as opposed to wiping it?  Would that be acceptable for stainless steel, or does even doing that affect the edge?  Right now I always wash my dishes by hand and leave them to air dry.

If you air dry carbon right after you wash it without wiping, there will always be droplets on the blade, which tend to form rust spots or rings during air drying.  It gets a little better as it patinas over time, but still...

Just run the flats lightly against a paper towel or kitchen towel after you wash it and you should be fine.  I have some carbon knives and am okay with them.  But they are not for everyone.

For stainless -- I air dry my VG10 knives, and all other stainless knives, exactly as you described, and have never had a problem with them.

The handle is a personal thing.  You might be fine with them.  I am.  And since it's just pakkawood you can always sand them down to a different shape if you really wanted to.

I have big hands though so that might be a factor.  People complain about the Tojiro handles being "blocky."  I find them no less comfortable than other Western style knives I have used.

I don't believe in sanding and other mods...prefer to have something feel approximately right from the get go.  I don't really do too much cutting, so unless the handle is unusually bad, I probably won't have a problem with it.  I' think I'll order the FKM petty and see how that goes.  I looked up the MIU and don't like the way it looks...I think the Fujiwara/Tojiro are really the place I want to be...they look like the beginning of the "high end knives".  I just wish they were available locally, but looks like I'll have to go to the Internet.

Thanks for all the advice/inputs.

I'm sure you'll like it. I've got a couple Fujiwaras in my knife kit that I use most everyday. Good bang for your buck

Just placed the order for the Fujiwara FKM 120 mm Petty.  Unfortunately they are closed till Tuesday, so I probably won't see it till the end of next week.

They are both very good lines and excellent values, and I'm sure you will enjoy it and subsequent J-knives enormously.

Eventually you will need to sharpen them.  Feel free to ask the board for advice on that when you come to it.

Welcome to the world of Japanese knives and a happy Fourth!

I got my Fujiwara Petty Knife a few weeks ago.  It came directly from Japan

and was packaged quite nicely.  Looks and finish are pretty good.

I find the handle a little small, but it's not a big deal since I don't do

a lot of chopping.  I am a bit underwhelmed by the sharpness.  It is

definitely not as sharp as the Wustof/Shun chef knife testers I used

at the stores.  It definitely takes some effort getting through things like

carrots and sweet potatoes.

Maybe I'll take it some place to get it sharpened.

Too bad your knife didn't come sharp OOTB (out of the box).  For several reasons, many Japanese made knives don't -- which a lot of westerners find disappointing.  However Fujiwaras have the rep of arriving fairly sharp. Whatever.  That train's already left the station and left with tear stained cheeks and a dull knife. 

So, yes.  Get it properly sharpened and it will put a Wusthof factory edge to shame,  because the knife is thinner AND sharpened to a more acute angle.  For the same reasons, plus its additional hardness, it will stay sharper through considerably more work.

Because every knife gets dull eventually, you can't get the benefit out of a quality blade unless you learn to sharpen yourself, or have someone very good do it for you on a regular basis.  Until you learn, look for someone who has experience with Japanese made knives besides Shun and Global.  You want someone with a picky clientele; ideally someone who sharpens by hand.

Enjoy your new knife and use it in good health,

BDL

Quote:

Originally Posted by anoop 

I got my Fujiwara Petty Knife a few weeks ago.  It came directly from Japan

and was packaged quite nicely.  Looks and finish are pretty good.

 

I find the handle a little small, but it's not a big deal since I don't do

a lot of chopping.  I am a bit underwhelmed by the sharpness.  It is

definitely not as sharp as the Wustof/Shun chef knife testers I used

at the stores.  It definitely takes some effort getting through things like

carrots and sweet potatoes.

 

Maybe I'll take it some place to get it sharpened.

Seems odd since the Fujiwara FKM Gyuto I got the end of last year was pretty sharp OOTB, or at least much sharper than the Henckels/Wustofs I have experienced in the past.

Still with a little time and effort sharpening it is razor sharp, and a pleasure to use.

I do not have a Fujiwara petty, but the handle on the Tojiro DP petty I do seems a bit small, but does grow on you, and is very comfortable for it's intended use.

Remember these are more of a entry level J Knife, and much as they are a great step up (actually not even comparable in my opinion) from the Germans I had in the past they are still not top of the line either.

If you follow BDL's suggestion to find someone who is good with sharpening J knives I think you will be very pleased.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capsaicin 

Each has its good points.

 

Tojiro has a harder edge (60-61) in VG10 which is pretty much stainless, while the Fujiwara FKM stainless line is a little softer (58-59).  Fujiwara carbons are about 60 but you'll need to take care of it.

 

Tojiro has handles that some people find uncomfortable.  I'm okay with them.  It's also clad construction while the Fujiwaras are monosteel.  Don't know if that makes a difference to you.

 

If you want stainless I'd go Tojiro.  If you are willing to take care of non-stainless steel, then it's pretty much even in my opinion.

I thought I replied to this months ago, but guess I goofed something up lol

Since these are two brands I have been using for the last 7 months I have learned that they are both very good knives that will get seriously sharp with a little effort.

There are some differences as you mention, and I would add that they sharpen a little differently as the Tojiro takes a little longer, but rewards with an edge that lasts a little longer as well. It also seems that the Fuji feels a little lighte when comparing my Gyuto to the Tojiro Santoku.

I also am finding that both are great for the price, and just feel better for different uses. I know I have very different knives (cant really compare a petty to a gyuto etc) but also have had the opportunity to compare with a 180mm Tojiro gyuto. Have to admit I do like them both, and the 180 still is on it's OOTB sharpening so it is not as sharp as it should be or could be etc.

The main difference I find when trying to compare is that the Tojiro does not feel as nimble, but at the same time feels more robust or HD etc.

If you have not read my postings in my thread where this was all discussed previously I will add that I have both fallen for the VG10 blades on the Tojiro as well as gained a lot of respect for the slightly lower hardened steel in the Fujiwara. I wish all my blades performed this well, and can not wait until I get an opportunity to compare these with different higher end J knives in the future because if this is entry level I believe I am in for a real learning experience!

Quote:

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze 

Too bad your knife didn't come sharp OOTB (out of the box).  For several reasons, many Japanese made knives don't -- which a lot of westerners find disappointing.  However Fujiwaras have the rep of arriving fairly sharp. Whatever.  That train's already left the station and left with tear stained cheeks and a dull knife. 

 

So, yes.  Get it properly sharpened and it will put a Wusthof factory edge to shame,  because the knife is thinner AND sharpened to a more acute angle.  For the same reasons, plus its additional hardness, it will stay sharper through considerably more work.

 

Because every knife gets dull eventually, you can't get the benefit out of a quality blade unless you learn to sharpen yourself, or have someone very good do it for you on a regular basis.  Until you learn, look for someone who has experience with Japanese made knives besides Shun and Global.  You want someone with a picky clientele; ideally someone who sharpens by hand.

 

Enjoy your new knife and use it in good health,

BDL

 

 

Off topic, but good to see you around and posting again.

Just was not the same here without your "special" posting style :)

How do I find someone that will sharpen my knife for me?

Well ... do you have a good Asian restaurant or sushi place in or by your location? I suggest you go in there at an off time, with one of your knives. Ask if anyone in the kitchen uses knives like yours and do they sharpen them themselves or do they use a service. 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by anoop           How do find someone that will sharpen these for me?

Where are you located?

BDL

PS.  Thanks LennyD.