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Food Words and Expressions I Don't Like Because I'm Old and Cranky - Page 3

post #61 of 161

Chris,

 

Could you expand on your objection to "signature?" I agree that it's overused, and nondescriptive. But I don't understand what your trying to say.

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #62 of 161



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChefBazookas View Post

I don't appreciate being tagged with "Honey", "Sweetie" or "Baby" by my server. 

 

If I'm down south and my server's at least 15 years my senior, I'm fine with it.  But having some 20 year old calling me "Honey" every time they come to the table is an annoyance.

Sorry sugar.

 

BDL
 



 tongue.gif  Now, if you'll pardon me while I go put away these yummy veggies that I prepared as a side to some meltingly tender steak which I topped with asparagus...just for a little crunch. biggrin.gif

I don't like food, I love it.  If I don't love it, I don't swallow.
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post #63 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocker33 View Post

I hate being "HELD HOSTAGE" for 20 minutes or more after finishing my meal and giving the money for the check.  When they have my $100.00 bill, I can't leave without my change and I won't. 

 

The tip begins to dwindle after just a few minutes of paying. 

 

If I leave while waiting for the check, I can be charged with theft.  Won't happen.  If I leave while waiting for MY change, I lose.  Won't happen.  I may have to wait awhile, but she, unfortunately will be the loser. 

 



Quadruple post? 

 

Edit is great for epiphanies 

post #64 of 161

What the?

post #65 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocker33 View Post

What the?


I think what is being said here is that, instead of making 4 posts one after the other, you could have just used the "edit" button on the first post and added subsequent info that way.

Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
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post #66 of 161

      It really grinds my gears when...

 

    People say "farm fresh eggs"  when they aren't.

 

       It may have been laid in the morning, but not this morning (so to speak wink.gif)

 

 

   dan

post #67 of 161

"Smothered" I do not want my food "smothered" in anything ....even it it is Monteray Jack Cheese on my Nachos in a Road House!

 

"Wild Mushroom Soup" .....if your going to serve this to me , it better be WILD MUSHROOMS

 

"Fresh Herbs"   FYI  .....does not come outta a jar

 

'

My feet are firmly planted in mid air
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post #68 of 161

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.soilassociation.org/

 

Does the USA not have a similar org to the UK's Soil Association for certification of organic produce?

post #69 of 161

Yes and no, Ishbel.

 

With produce, there are federal regulations as to how the stuff was grown, and whether or not you can even use the word "organic." Basically, this applies only to market growers. And even if you follow the regs, if you earn more than a certain, relatively small, amount, you must be certified and inspected.

 

The Federal regulations were intended to replace the morass of state-level rules, which ranged from the non-existend to the very stringent. For instance, in Kentucky, "organic" meant whateve the grower wanted it to mean, whereas California and Oregon had (and continue to have) regs that are much more stringent than the Federal rules.

 

The problem with the Federal rules is tha major imputs were made by the huge factory farm people, like Monsanto. Naturally, they therefore favor that style of farming, rather than the small, diverse growers most people think of when "organic" is mentioned.

 

One result was that a great number of organic growers no longer use the term, because the costs of certification aren't worth the effort. I have a friend, for instance, who figured, putting aside the direct costs of certification, that the paperwork alone would take her 26 hours. 

 

However, because phrases like "grown using organic methods, but not certified" are greeted with suspicion by consumers, who often don't understand what's involved, other grous, such as the grass roots CNG (Certified Naturally Grown) have sprung up. This gives growers a rational certification system, without the costs and hassles of the Federal rules. And, because it provides a recognizable logo, it avoids the awkward phrases when you try to be honest about how the food was produced.

 

For other foods there are no consistent rules or standards. So, when you see terms like "organic chicken," it is meaningless. "Organic," in that usage, means whatever the seller wants it to mean.

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #70 of 161

Organic Honey......who's to say which flowers the bees hung out with?
smothered is a very southern term....it's a "comfort food term" for me.

 

Chris, marketing your food takes some ego....albiet hopefully with alot of humility too.....

how would you let potential customers know that you make the crackers, bread, desserts, cheese, sausages etc.....which for many is a selling point....kind of funny because made in house or by hand or signiture or whathaveyou, may not be any better than what's on the market.  But it confers care in what you do....

So, how to say it is always a challenge.

cooking with all your senses.....
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post #71 of 161

The word 'dollap' bugs me.

California Cook

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post #72 of 161

I would rather he address the issue and not the style.  Maybe he has no opinion.

Crocker33

post #73 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocker33 View Post

I would rather he address the issue and not the style.  Maybe he has no opinion.

Crocker33



 Simmer down now. He wasn't being mean. But he's right. The edit button is a beautiful thing.

"We make our food; thereafter, our food makes us." - Winston Churchill (with a slight modification)
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post #74 of 161

Just about anything that  is used to describe wine is pretty darn annoying to me!

post #75 of 161

"cat piss" who wants to drink wine that has that nuiance.....

or barnyard, or horseblanket???  And these are $$$$ wines.....

cooking with all your senses.....
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post #76 of 161

"Organic" here means the soil, the treatment and raising of the food/ stock.  I think the soil has to have been not chemically treated full stop for the last 5 years.  No pesticides etc at all.  Unfortunately, this does make the price of organic much higher.  One would imagine that for something to be truly organic that the stock would have to be fed on truly organic fodder,

 

Back on track, I also dislike over-worded descriptions of a dish.  They put me off rather than making me want to choose it.  It's like you want a fish dish, simply done.  The menu description goes on and on endlessly down to the last little ingredient. Arrgh. That's sometimes when I prefer an oriental restaurant and the menu is by number,  Simpler, more effective. If a restaurant is going to go full out with a description on how a dish is cooked and all the ingredients, then the serve staff need to be able to describe it, but that puts a big pressure too on service staff.

 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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post #77 of 161

There are really a lot of variables in that, Sunshine.

 

In an upscale, fine-dining establishment I expect the wait staff to be fully cogniscent about the dishes on the menu. In a casual dining restaurant, not so much. Heck, in most of those places if if they even know what's on the menu by name I'm happy.

 

But, as to the menu itself, I prefer it to be clean, with a minimum of flowery description. But I do like a straightforward summery of the dish: "Grilled medallions of venison on a bed of faro, topped with au jus" tells me what I need to know up front. If I require more info than that, I can ask the server. What I don't need is: "Tender medallions of venison lovingly grilled over wafted applewood smoke, served on a blanket of ancient Roman grain, all gently enrobed in an au jus and topped with a mound of lightly dressed micro-greens, garnished with shallot chips."

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #78 of 161

KY.....

  Please don't think of me as the grammar police but...when you stated "topped with au jus" it is redundant, actually saying "topped with with jus". Au is french for "with" and "jus" for juice. Au jus....with juice.  "Topped au jus" sounds kind of funny so maybe "topped with jus"??? Have a great Thanksgiving! Dan :)

post #79 of 161

my gears are well grinded with all the stuff thats amazingly done by hand ;-

 

Hand sliced..Woo Hoo!!

hand fried That's always got me thinking...Kettle chips must have a great medical insurance deal for all those burn claims

Hand selected for you???

Sorted by hand...Well that makes it well worth the extra I'm paying for it

Hand made...Once again ???

 

 

"If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?" Jo Brand
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post #80 of 161

Just remembered.  Shrimp Scampi.

post #81 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuan View Post

Just remembered.  Shrimp Scampi.



Especially preceded by a mesclun mix salad.

Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
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post #82 of 161

First, I love this thread.  Incredibly insightful. I've been researching public opinions of words/terms used when marketing food products and services.

 

What fascinates me most is our reluctance to admit that the words we claim to dislike do influence our opinions and decisions. The words may seem silly, superficial or redundant, but they're influential on some level within our minds. That's the magic and evil of marketing...a field we love to hate.

 

It reminds me of the Malcolm Gladwell presentation in which he talks about coffee (and spaghetti sauce). Americans, when surveyed, typically claim to want a "dark, rich, hearty roast." But as Mr. Gladwell explained, research data shows that only 25-27% of people really want a "dark, rich, hearty roast". The majority actually prefers milky weak coffee - though few people will admit it. What we say we want (to eat, read, hear, see, etc.) is often not in alignment with what we actually choose to eat, read, view and listen to.

 

We might believe using the word "fresh" is silly. After all, we reason, what is the alternative? Spoiled? Overripe? Rotten?  We can be certain that a multimillion dollar Subway "Eat Fresh" campaign is backed by research that shows the positive impact of the word "fresh" on purchasing decisions. Try as we might to decry the use of such words, they do influence our behavior in ways that we might never admit, nor fully comprehend.

 

In any case, I'll be watching this thread with great interest.  Thank you all for sharing.


Edited by josephmartins - 11/29/10 at 8:41am
post #83 of 161

Let me put it this way. A little over a week ago I ate in a college dormitory cafeteria. Classic style: hot stuff in steamer trays, open salad bar with sneeze guard, drink dispensers, pick up your tray and dishes and silverware as you come in, that stuff. Everything was labeled. One station had pizza, and the sign said, "Our signature crust topped with...." Give me a break already!

 

I think the word "signature" makes sense in precisely one context: celebrity chefs and their restaurants. When people go, let's say, to Ming Tsai's Blue Ginger restaurant, a lot of them want to get Ming's "signature" dishes. But what in fact does this mean? Does it mean that the other dishes on the menu are not up to Chef Tsai's standards? In his case, at least, no --- for a celebrity chef, he is remarkably hands-on and deeply involved in his restaurant. (I've eaten there four times and every time he was working in the open kitchen with his people.) What "signature" means here is simply "you're looking for the celebrity chef experience, and here is a dish this celebrity developed for this restaurant and has kept on the menu a long time, so we recommend that dish for you."

 

The problem is that I don't like the whole celebrity chef thing. I mean, I don't mind a chef being famous and lauded, but the "celebrity chef" shtick irritates me. Call me old-fashioned, but I think the chef should be famous and lauded if his restaurant is consistently spectacular, not because he appears on TV. And I think a truly great chef is one who can train his people so well that there is no difference between a dish made entirely by the chef and one made by one of his cooks.

 

[Edited to add...]

An important negative dimension of "signature" for me is the way it pivots gastronomy on the question of novelty as opposed to tedium. Not so long ago, if you went to a top-notch French restaurant, what was on the menu was entirely as expected. Novelty was not really on offer. If you ordered tournedos Rossini, you got that dish, executed brilliantly, and you would have been shocked if there had been some novel alteration made. After all, if there had been such a change, the dish wouldn't be tournedos Rossini any longer. In a great deal of contemporary American restaurant culture, however, there is a notion that anything that is not new and different, to which the chef hasn't added his own personal alternative style and spin, is just boring. In part, what "signature dish" means is this: "unlike some other dishes on this menu, this is something in which the chef has expressed his personal style very strongly, to create a novel dish that speaks of who he is." I can only take this kind of thing remotely seriously when the chef in question is very, very good. Thus my reference before to Paul Bocuse's truffle soup: the man did invent this dish, and he deserves credit for it --- but very few chefs are Paul Bocuse. I think that there is now this drive to create, to be new and different, and that this drive is strongly instantiated in this term "signature dish." I would rather focus on brilliance of execution than on novel creation, and I think a good deal of the celebrity chef thing is based on telling diners that novelty is ipso facto a good thing --- and this often allows the restaurant to cover up weak execution.

 

Consider sushi restaurants. I don't know about the rest of the country, but I can tell you that in New England and at least to some degree New York a sushi menu will normally have a long list of "special" maki and usually at least a few "signature" maki. These things are, with few exceptions, complex concoctions of a wide range of ingredients. One of the things I learned in Japan is how fundamentally odd this is in terms of Japanese gastronomy: what makes good sushi or sashimi is its utter purity, the way you can't hide weaknesses. If the fish is fabulous and excellently cut, and the ponzu or shoyu and wasabi are of superlative quality, it's good. Many people can evaluate whether the sushi rice is good and the nigiri well-formed; I can't, but that's because I don't like it and normally order sashimi instead. If you pile up 18 ingredients together, you can get away with murder: how is anyone going to know if the fish is really all that good? That's fine if it's the intent --- if you're knocking together cheap maki rolls for on-the-dash dining, you want to use inexpensive scraps and do everything you can to obscure the quality so it's not unpalatable. But the idea of slamming together mounds of dramatically contrasting ingredients and using this as a selling point strongly suggests that your customers don't know the difference between okay fish and great fish. And yet, you'll constantly see in sushi restaurant reviews that the reviewer will harp on the exciting, novel combinations in the signature maki, and note only in passing that, yes, the ordinary standards are good too. Here the whole conception of novelty --- and celebrity, too, if you think about the way "creative" sushi gets located in the hot celebrity world --- undermines quality and taste, and "signature" becomes a constant sign of this effect.

[end edit]

 

So my problem with "signature" is twofold. On the one hand, it is grossly overused, to the point that all it means is "we don't think this sucks." On the other hand, it encourages people to select their food based on fame and publicity, and in many cases also to do so without regard for things like seasonality: if a dish is always on the menu, it's not seasonal, by definition --- not that all dishes must be seasonal, but I don't like anything that encourages people to think seasonality is irrelevant or a matter of pure hype (which all too often it is, of course).

 

I should note that I do not fault Chef Tsai for using the term. He's got a business to run, and he does a very good job of it. Part of his customer base -- a significant part -- is people attracted by his celebrity status, and they expect menus that cater to their celebrity-chef expectations. As it happens, I also like at least one of his "signature" dishes, a soup with foie gras shu mai. It's the term I object to, and I only single out Ming Tsai because I have absolutely no other objections to the man and his work.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer View Post

Chris,

 

Could you expand on your objection to "signature?" I agree that it's overused, and nondescriptive. But I don't understand what your trying to say.


Edited by ChrisLehrer - 11/29/10 at 9:21am
post #84 of 161

I'm going to change gears and go not with words themselves, but the pronunciation of them. Pecan is pronounced puh-con. Not pee-can. Praline is pronounced prah-leen. Not pray-leen. So when I hear someone on TV say "Pee-can pray-leen", I just want to hit something.

"We make our food; thereafter, our food makes us." - Winston Churchill (with a slight modification)
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post #85 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerm713 View Post

I'm going to change gears and go not with words themselves, but the pronunciation of them. Pecan is pronounced puh-con. Not pee-can. Praline is pronounced prah-leen. Not pray-leen. So when I hear someone on TV say "Pee-can pray-leen", I just want to hit something.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find someone around here who pronounces them the way you do.  Merriam-Webster lists three acceptable pronunciations to your one for 'pecan'; pee-can, puh-con and pi-con.  I'm sure if you heard the Illini pronounce it you might have to change your notion altogether, as that's partially where the word came from.

 

The same goes for 'praline'.  M-W gives three acceptable versions; prah-leen, pray-leen and praw-leen.  This supposedly stems from the French Marshal Duplessis-Praslin's cook who is said to have invented it.

 

I may be annoyed with the way people pronounce some things, but I'd have a hard time 'proving' which is definitively correct.

I don't like food, I love it.  If I don't love it, I don't swallow.
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post #86 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChefBazookas View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerm713 View Post

I'm going to change gears and go not with words themselves, but the pronunciation of them. Pecan is pronounced puh-con. Not pee-can. Praline is pronounced prah-leen. Not pray-leen. So when I hear someone on TV say "Pee-can pray-leen", I just want to hit something.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find someone around here who pronounces them the way you do.  Merriam-Webster lists three acceptable pronunciations to your one for 'pecan'; pee-can, puh-con and pi-con.  I'm sure if you heard the Illini pronounce it you might have to change your notion altogether, as that's partially where the word came from.

 

The same goes for 'praline'.  M-W gives three acceptable versions; prah-leen, pray-leen and praw-leen.  This supposedly stems from the French Marshal Duplessis-Praslin's cook who is said to have invented it.

 

I may be annoyed with the way people pronounce some things, but I'd have a hard time 'proving' which is definitively correct.



That's what this thread is about. What annoys you, not what's correct and what isn't. I get annoyed when people say "pee-can" or "pray-leen".

"We make our food; thereafter, our food makes us." - Winston Churchill (with a slight modification)
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post #87 of 161

Pecan is pronounced puh-con. Not pee-can. Praline is pronounced prah-leen. Not pray-leen. 

 

It sounds here like you're saying, 'It's pronounced this way, not another way'.

 

 

In any event, I also get annoyed by pronunciations.  Mostly when people are trying to be...authentic...in pronouncing something when they clearly don't speak the language any other time.  For example, the word bruschetta. 

I don't like food, I love it.  If I don't love it, I don't swallow.
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post #88 of 161

Well, when I was "in the business", we grew "almonds" (al-monds) but sold "ammonds" (am-monds) because we shook the "L" out of them to get them off the tree laser.gif

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
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post #89 of 161

''The Catch of the day'', when it is in most cases Frozen    WHAT DAY?

 

''Daily Chefs Special''    Something they want to get rid of.

 

"Imported'    Sure from Brooklyn

 

'Organic'       But farm next door uses insecticides and nourishes water

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...
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post #90 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcCracken View Post

Well, when I was "in the business", we grew "almonds" (al-monds) but sold "ammonds" (am-monds) because we shook the "L" out of them to get them off the tree laser.gif



Well played, sir.

 

ChefBazookas, it did sound like I was trying to say one way is correct over another. I guess it just bothers me to hear. Anway, I'm with you on "authentic" pronunciations. I think that's one of the things that bothers me about Giada. She says everything with an American accent, but when it comes to an Italian word, she has to over-emphasize the Italian accent. It makes her sound even less authentic to me. I also find it funny when people think they are saying something the "authentic" way, when in fact, it's completely wrong. Case in point, I don't think I've ever heard someone from New Orleans say "Nawlins".

"We make our food; thereafter, our food makes us." - Winston Churchill (with a slight modification)
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