Kitchen Equipment Recommendations - Page 2

We will be building a house next year. I've decided to go completely commercial. My BIL is a builder and has done many high dollar kitchens. It's seems anything that makes the residential equipment easier ie. cleaning,maintaining etc. is the parts that will not last a lifetime. In reefers the only thing you are receiving for the extra buck is insolation in the compressor compartment for noise. I've decided to go with a standard 2 door cooler with top compressor against an outside wall,vented. We just don't freeze that much so we will go with something really small in the pot room.
Insolating residential ovens is needed when there is not proper ventilation. There are also many ways to insolate these ovens decoratively.I have actually used two of My BIL designed kitchens with side exhaust hoods and was very pleased.
just my thoughts

A friend of mine put in a Wolf 6 burner range w/ grill and double ovens in her house maybe 15 years ago. Her stove was MUCH better than the range I had at my restaurant at that time. VENTILATION is a word I can't stress enough. First, the heat from having 9 pilot lights going all the time DID heat up the house And firing up a big oven was unpleasant in the Summer. Also. RETURN AIR (fresh air from outside) is AS IMPORTANT! A poorly ventilated range in a "super good cents" home would probably eat up the oxygen in your kitchen faster than you know!

I absolutely agree. We have actually considered an elevated section of the home(pier&beam) for the kitchen with breezeways on two sides for 3 exterior walls. This will allow direct fresh air return and unobstructed exhausted air. We even tossed around the idea of some return air from under the floor since this might be cooler. The air has been a very big issue with us since here in the summer it's sometimes to hot to grill outside unless you can reach your grill from the pool, and that's with having your ice guy come by on fridays to drop a 300 pounder in.

Take a look at a website called

www.kitchens.com

Well, I've never seen it myself, but read about it in a newspaper article this morning. The writer (in the Contra Costa Times) called the site a "home-owner-oriented" site that "gives homeowners an in-depth look at options for all aspects of kitchen design... also spotlights independent kitchen and bath designers and the products and services they offer."

I'm going to look at it as soon as we get home, as I'm looking at a bath tearout and a kitchen rebuild. Sounds like it might be useful start.

Mike

One can spend a lot of time dreaming about the perfect kitchen...

New Kitchen Appliances

Bella,

I've been a luxury home builder and avid chef for many years. Here's what I would recommend currently:

Refrigerators: SubZero, KitchenAid, ColdTech
Ranges/Cooktops: DCS, Wolf, Dynasty, Thermador, Dacor, Miele
Dishwashers: KitchenAid, Miele, Fisher & Paykel
IceMakers: KitchenAid
Wine Coolers: SubZero (very spendy), KitchenAid
Trash Compactors - Don't buy them at all!
Wall Ovens/Microwaves: Wolf, DCS, KitchenAid, Miele

I do not recommend Viking, 5-Star, Garland (not making residential anymore), GE Monogram (some items are OK, others not OK).

I would recommend purchasing an inexpensive paperback book on kitchen design, Kitchen Design with Cooking in Mind by Donald Silvers (available at www.amazon.com). Don was a professional chef for 15 years before being a commercial/residential kitchen designer for the last 25 years and designs kitchens from a cooking, as well as, an aesthetic perspective.

Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:

KitchenAppliances

Bella (and others),

I was at the the Kitchen & Bath Industry Show in Chicago earlier this year and tried/tested just about everything. I still stick with my earlier post, but here are a few caveats:

On the ranges, I really like DCS the best with their new sealed burners. They go from 17,500Btu down to 140 degree simmer (you can hold your hand over the flame and not burn your hand. Their range/cooktop grills are also very good and have dual-sided grates for really good flareup control. Built like a TANK. Agree with NY Cook's comments - Viking is a MARKETING company, rather than a well-built product company. Do not buy KitchenAid for now, as their pro-style ranges/cooktops have their top burners all ***-backward (simmer burners up front with saute burners in back - WRONG!).

On the refrigerators, yes, SubZ has dual compressors, which you will pay about $800 more for vs. a KitchenAid. They claim food will last longer in their units, which my Kitchen Designer, Don Silvers, says is true (he has a SubZ in his home). For big families, I recommend the ColdTech units (www.coldtechusa.com). 40 cubic feet, dual compressors (quiet), 30 cubic feet refer, 10 cubic feet freezer.

Wall ovens - The new Wolf wall ovens are really the Cadillac of the group. Dual convection fans in each oven and they are built like TANKS. DCS is also good with their gas radiant broilers (similar to the infrared broilers in the ranges).

Dishwashers - Miele and KitchenAid are very good. Fisher & Paykel is OK as long as you remember to keep the JetDry reservoir full. All 3 very quiet. KitchenAid will be coming out early next year with an in-sink dishwasher that can do primarily a load of glasses/plates in only 18 minutes. Granted, not a 2 minute cycle as in restaurants, but a lot faster than most residential dishwashers.

IceMakers - I like KitchenAid as they produce "clear" ice similar to restaurants, rather than the cloudy stuff you get in your refrigerator.

Wine Coolers- I like SubZ, as you can acutally have 2 different climate zones in the same cooler. Not cheap at over $2,000 each for a 24-inch undercounter model. KitchenAid is OK. Stay away from U-line. Marvel is OK.

Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:

You see we have changed our minds about building and are in the process of purchasing an existing home. Great house!! but small galley kitchen. JenAir convection, looks like the first ever made. Replaceing that with a Wolf convection with 2 speed fan.
I have a problem not fitting a sheet pan inside.I really wanted to remove the existing cooktop and gut the cabinets under to put in a range. I just wasn't happy with anything I saw, especially the venting. The options were an island cap or a regular cap, both witch vented towards the front. I could'nt stop thinking that if I had the oven cranked to reheat that the vented air would heat any pot that might be on the back burner. So I decided to go with a cooktop. I really liked the Viking drop in with the dials on top. I just read that the burners were stamped steel, but I will have to go back and check, they looked cast to me.
I looked at all the ice boxes. I ended up choosing a box with the freezer draw on the bottom . Most of them are made by Amana. I use one of my in-line water filters from our coffee machines for the ice maker and didn't feel the need to go to sub-zero dollars since I'm still the type to shop frequently especially to entertain.
Ice maker and small fridge in the bar area. Keeping those only replacing the small cooler with one with more freezer space for ice creams. We have plans to turn this bar area(very nice, granite tops, brass etc.) into a dessert bar. This will give me more space in the kitchen since we'll have the coffee/capp., blender, milkshake blender in that area.
I don't think I will ever use the trash compactor and was pleasantly surprized to find a 15" wine cooler to put in it's place. 1500. 30 bottle cap.
Probably going with the Kitchen aid dishwasher. has the short 40 min. cycle.
Probably going with the cheaper Viking hood w/interior fan VS exterior.
Going all stainless except for wine cooler.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated since we have not purchased anything yet, closing on the 15th Oct. I really wanted to go commercial but can't do much renovating right now.$$$$$
I found the best prices at the Great Indoors. They could really cut me a deal on all the appliances exept Viking.
TIA

Kitchen Aid range

I just bought the KitchenAid 30" pro style range. I don't see anywhere on their web site a mention of having simmer burners up front and saute burners in the back as CMVnatural mentioned. Everything I've seen only mentions that they are each (4 sealed burners) 15, 000 BTU's. I'm picking it up on Tuesday and I can't wait!! I got a great deal at Sears, of all places. I got if for $3,000. because I used the Sears card (10% discount) and no tax because it's NH.

I don't know if you have Great Indoors where you are, they carry everything and all brands, and they are owned by sears.

No, we don't have that store-that I know of. I looked at a hood vent at Sears. It's basically a Kenmore that is a direct copy of the Broan European hood. The problem is my ceiling is 12' 5" high and Sears wants to charge me $160 for each foot of extra flue pipe I need. I found a great funky looking hood vent at Expo Center. It's a Zephyr, Savona M90S. Anybody have any advice regarding this brand?

Kitchen Equipment

Panini,

That all looks fine. Stay away from Viking hoods with internal blowers - VERY NOISY. Go with Vent-a-Hood. Much quieter, and easier to clean (not to mention less expensive). Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:

KitchenAid Pro-Style ranges

Dbassist,

I stand corrected. On KA's 30-inch Proline range, you have four 15,000 Btu burners. On their larger 36 and 48-inch ranges, two of the burners in front are 6,000Btu simmer burners and the rest ard 15,000Btu burners. Better to put in all 15,000Btu burners and then just use simmer plates to diffuse the heat. Good luck with your purchase! CMVnatural:chef:

KitchenAid Proline Appliances

Panini,

I realize that you just bought this model from Sears, but before you pick anything up, I would strongly suggest if you can to look at the 30-inch DCS 5-burner gas range. It has 5 rather than 4 burners, the 5th burner at 17,500Btu (nice for stir-fry), and the other 4 at 16,000Btu. The oven has an infrared broiler (far superior to electric), true flow convection, self-cleaning, and the racks are on ball-bearing rollers (nice and easy). It retails for about $3,600. While a few more dollars than KA, it is also built like a tank (try the oven door on the KA and then the DCS and then you'll understand). Also, the DCS burners go from way high to very low simmer (140 degrees), whereas with KA's, you'll have to get simmer plates to diffuse the heat enough. No, I don't work for DCS, but I've seen and tested their stuff and it is one of the best out there.

Also, for your and many others info, the guys testing these things at Consumer Reports, by and large, don't know how to cook. They think the sole measure of a cooktop is how fast it boils water and whether it scorches chocolate when melting. Well, virtually most electric cooktops will boil water faster than gas because the heat source is in direct contact with the bottom of the pan. Where the electrics lose it is in the high heat needed for finishing dishes to restaurant quality standards. Also, most knowledgable chefs and gourmets melt chocolate in a double boiler, bain marie, or in a microwave, not directly on a burner. So, I don't give much credence to Consumer Reports. I'd rather look at publications like Cook's Illustrated and Fine Cooking, and watch shows like America's Test Kitchen for people who know how to cook and then get their opinions. It also doesn't hurt to ask a few local chefs in town. There's my two cents. Good luck, CMVnatural.:chef:

I appreciate your input. I agree with your assessment on Consumer Reports. The Kitchen Aid is also built like a tank. I definately love the DCS too. I just can't go over budget any more than I am now. I really hate to "settle" for something but I think the Kitchen Aid is well built stove too. I hope I'm right.

CMV,
I haven't bought yet but really appreciate the input. I'm leaning toward the cooktop with wall oven. I liked the viking but haven't made up my mind.
I looked at the 36" model with the grill, don't know about infared, but most grills were in the 20-22000. range and it seemed to me that these are designed for marking only.
I will go out and look at the DCS range, I don't think I saw it. I can go either way, wall or range. Give me a recoprocating saw and I'm in heaven.
OMG!!!! I just opened the bid for the counter tops.

Kitchen Equipment

Panini,

On the infrared broilers, those are in the ovens, not on the grill on top. Wolf, on their rangetops, offer infrared charbroilers, which are VERY HOT and very good. Personally, I like the charbroilers on DCS because they have a better grease management system. No, they're not just for marking the meat. Your outdoor BBQ's individual burners are normally 25,000Btu, so they're pretty close to that. Stay away from Viking. Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:

Ok, heres the latest. My measurements are pretty awkward so that is the reason for mix and match on the appliances. Got my bid tonight, DCS cooktop 36"....Vent a hood vent dbl fan 1000cfm...kitchen aid double convection/micro.conv. wall oven...
kitchen aid dishwasher... kitchen aid fridge...(matching handles important for the Mrs.) All stainless
Keep in mind the lack of space(small galley kitchen)
silestone counters(like the color choice over granite)
really nice under counter kohler one compartment sink(very deep, like an old fashioned baby tub) monhe fawcet,
Any thoughts (placing order Fri, morn)
PS when we entertain I usually premake a lot at the bakery and bring it home. Am I lacking on oven space? Do have two heat lamps in the vent a hood.

Kitchen Equipment

Panini,

On the DCS 36-inch cooktop, make sure it's the newest model with the 17,500Btu burners and whether or not you want the grill, griddle, or 6 burners vs. the 4 burners plus griddle or grill.

On the Vent-a-Hood, for a 36-inch cooktop, should be a 42-inch hood (which is a standard size for them). If it's got two dual blowers, that's 1,200CFM, or you could get 1 dual blower and 1 single blower-900CFM. If you're having 6 burners or 4 with griddle, the 900CFM should be fine. If you're going with the 4 plus grill, get the 1,200CFM (better to ventilate the smoke).

On the KitchenAid wall oven, if you're getting a combo single wall oven with built-in microwave, personally, I think you're better off gettting full double wall ovens (two 30-inch convection wall ovens in one cabinet) and then if you can afford it and have the space, get their built-in microwaves. If not, then you can get one of their countertop models and either put it on the counter or build it in with one of their trim kits. That extra 30-inch wall oven will be invaluable to you, esp. if you're cooking different things with different temperatures.

On the KA dishwasher, make sure it's the top line model (you can check these on KA's website. I'd go with the Architect Series all stainless steel with the big oval handles (on the refrigerator too). If 36" refer, OK, if side-by-side, get at least 42-inch if not 48-inch model (the freezer in the 36" side by side is too small).

The Kohler sink should be fine, but if you're going to mount undercounter, be sure they can beef up the installation as their cast-irons sinks are VERY heavy. You might consider a deep stainless steel sink by Franke or Elkay.

I would not waste the money on the heat lamps in the hood. You're better off getting a warming drawer (KitchenAid is fine). You can put this in the same cabinet as your double 30" wall ovens, or you can put it adjacent to the 36" cooktop if you have the room.

Silestone is fine - nice product. SPENDY.

Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:

CMV
Thank you, you're a wealth of information which I value.
My BIL who builds home talked me out of the cast iron sink last night. Thanks.
All the KA appliances are the achitect style, a little pricey but corordinated with the handles.
The DSC cooktop is a five burner with a little wok ring.
The vent, you're right, 900CFM. called this morning and informed me that the 10" won't accept the heat lamps. solved that. What is your feeling about the no filter thing. I'm not up on this at all.
It seems pretty easy to clean but it also seems that there is a lot more to clean. Aren't the fans going to get cruddy also?
On the wall oven, it's telling that the micro is also a convection.
Is that not right? I really did not look closely at the panel but I assumed that it also doubled as a small convection. I'm very limited on space. Have to go with the 27" VS 30"... I really also like the fact of the hidden elements.
The silestone a little cheaper then the granite(plus no sealing)
but almost the same price as the corrian.
thoughts?

Kitchen Equipment

Panini,

OK, I went back and looked at DCS' website and see the cooktop you're looking for. I think it's OK, so long as you really think you won't have the need for a grill. As far as a griddle, I'd recommend getting one that fits over the burners (built-in ones normally don't get used much and are hard to clean). You might also look at their 36-inch professional-style cooktop. That's the one I was referring to earlier. On the 36-inch model you're speaking of, only the center burner is 17,500Btu - the others are 16,000Btu. On the professional cooktops, all of the burners are 17,500Btu (as Tim, the Tool Man Taylor would say, "MORE POWER").

I don't have a problem with the filter situation on the Vent-a-Hood. The fans use centrifugal force to expel the grease, which ends up on the inside walls of the housing. You just pull it off periodically and wash it in your sink. With normal mesh and baffle filters, you have to do the same thing, but are noisier because the fans are "pulling" instead of "pushing". No, don't think the fans will get cruddy. You should call Vent-a-Hood in Texas and ask them about it (they're on the web too). I've been at their plant and tested both their hoods vs. Thermador, Viking, and Broan, and they are by far the quietist. Also, please specify that you want the two-speed sensor fan blowers. What happens it that when you turn on the blowers, each blower will operate at half-speed (150CFM), and then when the temperature gets over a certain amount, then it will kick onto full speed (300CFM per fan) to expel the heat, odors, and grease.

On the KA Microwave/Wall Oven combo, yes, the micro is also a small convection oven. Not a lot of space in there, but handy. The 27" models are OK. That's why I suggested just putting the micro on the countertop, or build it in undercounter, or hang it from the bottom of the upper cabinets so it doesn't take up counter space. The only thing I ever use my microwave for is heating up leftovers (no, I do my popcorn in a pot on the burners-can't stand the microwave stuff).

Thanks for the info on Silestone - I haven't used it before, but from what I've seen, it's a very good product. It's also similar to DuPont's Zodiaq quartz countertops (93% quartz with the rest being the glues that hold the quartz chips together).

Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:

CMV,

FYI I've been using my KitchenAid pro style range for a week now and I'm very impressed. It's a tank. So far every feature is excellent. I was a little skeptical about the digital oven feature but it too is excellent. It's really simple to use and seems to be exact. Thanks for all your advice.

Kitchen Equipment

Dbassist,

Good news for KitchenAid! Yeah, they're one of the few brands of the "commercial-type" stuff that is more user friendly (like oven timers). Do you get enough heat in the burners, and does the convection oven work well? I'll pass along the info to my contract sales friends at KitchenAid. Thanks, CMVnatural.:chef:

The burners are each 15, 000 BTU's and are great. I love the coninuous grates. I've only used the convection oven once. It seems to work great. I'll an apple pie in the next few days. It'll be nice not having to turn the pie so each side of the top browns evenly.

Some of the nice features include;

Oven lights go on when oven is on
Digital readout lets you know how close to pre-heat temp you are
Beeps when set temp is reached
Convection fan and heating coil automatically turn off when you open the door and go back on when you close the door
Oven racks are very solid and do not stick

Tomorrow I start taking down cabinets so I can install our new Zephyr Savona model vent hood.

CMV,

Vent-a-hood recommends using a 36" hood for a 30" stove. I have not seen even one picture of a range with a hood that is larger. Have you? The reason I ask is that we are going to put in a backsplash of stainless that goes from behind the stove up to the top or our 12' 5" ceiling. It should be very striking. I think the stainless will have to be 36" wide to match the hood, not 30" wide like the stove. What do you think?

Thanks.

Kitchen Equipment

Dbassist,

On all commercial-type equipment (w/15,000 Btu burners), you always size the hood 3 inches larger on each side of the range, so the 36" hood for a 30" range is correct. The reason they don't show that in the pictures in the literature is because they like everything to look symmetrical in those photos. Use the 36" wide stainless backsplash - that's fine. Good luck, CMVnatural

Great info!

:bounce:

A quick additional comment or two. I've had the stove for over a year now. It is awesome. I bought a Zephyr 36" range hood which works great and looks great. We also put a 36" wide stainless backsplash all the way up to the ceiling. We have a 12' ceiling so it is an attention getter. The KitchenAid range has made us better cooks. It has always worked perfectly.

I am confused

Help Needed


We are remodeling and making new larger kitchen . We are looking for new appliances. So far we liked

Dacor- Epicure- 36 inch cooktop
Reasons: Good looking, 15000 BTU- 6 BURNERS, CONTINUES GRATES- Most important for us is Porcelain surface, which can be easy to clean

Dacor-Epicure- 30 inch- Range and Microwave combo
Reasons: Matches cooktop and does good job

Mille- Dishwasher:
Reasons- One of the best in the market (That's what I believe)

Need feedback and recommendations for Refrigerator.
Please give me any other ideas if you have.

Thank you very much
anandsang

im probably not right but if i am, then a garland is a dog. i have a garland at work and i find that its design is pretty much more complicated than what it should be.

However, i am commenting from the Aussie perspective, and chances are that this piece of equipment is totally unrelated to the plant that you guys are discussing.

Also, the commercial cookery series of stoves, et.al. run at a higher gas pressure than the domestic.

nick

Gaggenau

Hi.

Has anyone heard of Gaggenau? Good or bad.