Cooking meat at low temperature in the oven... no thanks!

There are certain meats that should not be cooked in a low temp in the oven and rack of lamb is definitely one of those.  It's such a tender meat anyway why would you need it to be any softer?  My rule of thumb is the pricier the meat, the higher the heat.  The lower the price, low slow cooking makes it nice. (I just made that up! )

When it comes to tender cuts like tenderloins, prime rib, rack of lamb etc you want a nice crisp outside and reddish tender inside.  There is only one way to achieve this and that is to sear it before it goes into the oven.  I rub with olive oil, salt pepper and sear on all sides.  Then I season it with other flavorings and continue cooking in the oven.  There is a large portion of the population that believes that you should just place the meat in a very high oven for 15-30 minutes in the beginning to get a sear on the outside and then turn the oven down for the remainder of cooking but I say bahumbug to that!  That's only a poor imitation of a sear.  If you want a good color on the outside just sear it then pop it in the oven. 

Cheaper cuts of meat like the shoulders of animals need low slow cooking.  For Christmas I made a slow roasted shoulder of lamb, covered and cooked at 325F for 4hours.  It had a beautiful color but I was able to serve it with a spoon it was so tender.  If I were to cook this for 2hrs at 375 it would come out like shoe leather.  So pick your meat and go from there.

The one exception is prime rib.  There is a school of thought that believes that you must cook prime rib at a very low temperature for a long time.  But this is not so that it tenderizes the meat, this method ensures that you have uniform pink meat throughout.  Personally I prefer searing this cut as well, well done and crisp along the outside and gradually getting pinker and redder in the middle.

Lastly, a rack of lamb is a special thing.  I cook this cut but searing it on the outside on all sides and then finishing in the oven.  The whole process takes no more than 35min and it comes out perfectly every time.  Sorry you had a bad experience roasting.

My rule of thumb is the pricier the meat, the higher the heat. 

Great observation, KK, and good rule of thumb. But you can go overboard with it. Following it exactly, around here we'd have to cook lamb at about 700F.

Chris, could you post your recipe for the shiitake flan? Thanx!

As further proof of point, I am sharing a picture of a ribeye roast that I prepared in my Big Green Egg for Christmas.  It had been seasoned and aged in my butcher's cooler for a few weeks prior to cooking and actually lost over 10% of its weight. ( I wonder if the same would work for me...)

With a full charge of natural hardwood lump charcoal...and another small amount ignited in a charcoal chimney...with top and bottom dampers opened to the max...I emptied the burning coals into the belly of the beast, closed the lid, and let nature and science to themselves!

After a few minutes the BGE was in full glory, creating temps in excess of 650.  After a quick gut-check, I threw the roast directly on the coals and closed the lid.  After 30 minutes, I slowly opened the grill.  Flames surrounded the meat and it was incorporated into the fire.  (BTW,  I felt like a real MAN!)  I knew that my grilling utensils were not long enough to reach the depths of the furnace.  I had already resigned myself to reaching into the furnace to recapture the ribeye raost, which now looked like a size 14 EEE boot whose steel toe would be needed for positive identification.   After another quick gut-check, and armed with my long leather grilling mitts I reached into the inferno and quickly flipped the meat and closed the grill.  Mission accomplished! 

Temps still in the 600-700 range.

After another 20-30 minutes, I pulled the roast out of the grill and, with the lingering scent of singed hair in the air, closed down the dampers and added the grill rack to continue the process.

With just a few adjustments to the dampers, the BGE slowly made its way to a pretty constant 325 and after 2 more hours the internal temp was nearing 130.  I took it in and put it in my roaster for the trip to my mother's in anticipation of oooohs and ahhhhhs.

Things were not quite ready at mom's when I arrived so I have a few glasses of wine and let the roast rest.

I regret to this day that I did not have the capacity of mind to take a picture of the meat after I sliced it.  It was a thing of beauty!  Wonderful med-rare beef surrounded by a 1/8" crust of 100% burnt flavor!

...I agree, save the low and slow for braising!

I do prime rib at 250 and finish with a sear for crusting. Works great.

buckeye, we want to see the inside!  It's the inside that counts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer 

My rule of thumb is the pricier the meat, the higher the heat. 

 

Great observation, KK, and good rule of thumb. But you can go overboard with it. Following it exactly, around here we'd have to cook lamb at about 700F.

 Good one!!  Haha, don't raise the temp according to price, but you know what I mean. 

Thanks, Chris.

What does dl stand for. I'm sure I can find a conversion figure for it once I know what it means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer 

Thanks, Chris.

 

What does dl stand for. I'm sure I can find a conversion figure for it once I know what it means.

dl = deciliter = 1/10 liter = 100 ml

1 deciliter = 3.3814 fluid ounces

In all my years in the business, and after cooking thousands of prime ribs, I would never neither cook one or serve one that looked like this. Sorry

Thanks Pete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefedb 

In all my years in the business, and after cooking thousands of prime ribs, I would never neither cook one or serve one that looked like this. Sorry

Why is that?  The thermometer barely says 130 internal.  You know what they say, if you don't have anything nice to say...
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koukouvagia 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefedb 

In all my years in the business, and after cooking thousands of prime ribs, I would never neither cook one or serve one that looked like this. Sorry

Why is that?  The thermometer barely says 130 internal.  You know what they say, if you don't have anything nice to say...
 

Just a guess here, but the layer of carbon surrounding the roast would need to be removed.  If I'm not mistaken, cooking meat to that level of overcooked is carcinogenic.  If you have to trim all of that off, then you have no "crust" on the outside any longer.  Again, I'm just spit-balling, but I cringed when I read placing the meat directly on the coals and opening up an inferno. 

If everyone were the same, it would be an awfully boring world.

All at the table loved the meat, and no, we did not carve off the crust (which may have been closer to 1/16th of an inch).

I, too, have heard of the studies regarding the dangers of overcooked meat and would not recommend it every day.  I may have done more to threaten my health by sitting in front of my laptop reading the responses and typing this reply. 

I just wish I had taken a pic of the meat after slicing it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckeye_hunter 

 

 

 

Things were not quite ready at mom's when I arrived so I have a few glasses of wine and let the roast rest.

 

I regret to this day that I did not have the capacity of mind to take a picture of the meat after I sliced it.  It was a thing of beauty!  Wonderful med-rare beef surrounded by a 1/8" crust of 100% burnt flavor!

 

...I agree, save the low and slow for braising!

 

 

 

I would be all over it like a fat boy on a jelly donut. Nice bh!  I do something similar with my Prime Rib

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koukouvagia 

My rule of thumb is the pricier the meat, the higher the heat.  The lower the price, low slow cooking makes it nice. (I just made that up! )

 

 

 

Sounds like a good rule of thumb, I will remember that!

Koukouvagia . Different strokes for different folks is correct, but as I have always said I AM NOT  in a home cooking enviorment. In a commercial setting I could not serve this even just based on eye appeal. My customers would complain and go elsewhere. Home is different , a totally different mind set and thought process. We are not cooking for ourselves,or  catering to our own  likes and dislikes .We are cooking for the general public (our customers) and tend to listen to them. Its not that I am saying something not nice about anyone or anything.

I know this forum has both home and professional cooks and chefs, and so what i say has little weight.  But i have not found a meat that can be dry roasted that doesn't come out well cooking at a high temperature for the whole time. Maybe because there are no cuts here that are all that large like you'd get in then states, i don;t know, but my 8 kg turkey (17 lb?) is always cooked at about 450 and comes out juicy inside and crispy outside.  I tent it with foil if it seems to be getting too brown.  Roast beef (i rarely get to make this, since it's so expensive - consider about 4 times what it costs in the states) is the same.  I rarely find a whole leg of lamb (not baby lamb) but when i have it also comes out great.  I don;t understand why to cook it slow - apart from the fact that there are only so many hours i can stand smelling roasting meat without going crazy and cutting of a corner to eat it - it works really well and keeps it juicy inside and crusty outside.  (It does develop the crust, koukouvagia, if you LEAVE it at a high heat and you eliminate one more step.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by siduri 

I know this forum has both home and professional cooks and chefs, and so what i say has little weight.  But i have not found a meat that can be dry roasted that doesn't come out well cooking at a high temperature for the whole time. Maybe because there are no cuts here that are all that large like you'd get in then states, i don;t know, but my 8 kg turkey (17 lb?) is always cooked at about 450 and comes out juicy inside and crispy outside.  I tent it with foil if it seems to be getting too brown.  Roast beef (i rarely get to make this, since it's so expensive - consider about 4 times what it costs in the states) is the same.  I rarely find a whole leg of lamb (not baby lamb) but when i have it also comes out great.  I don;t understand why to cook it slow - apart from the fact that there are only so many hours i can stand smelling roasting meat without going crazy and cutting of a corner to eat it - it works really well and keeps it juicy inside and crusty outside.  (It does develop the crust, koukouvagia, if you LEAVE it at a high heat and you eliminate one more step.)

 What about osso bucco?  What about brisket?  What about pork shoulder or lamb shoulder?  What about pot roast?  What about roasting a chuck roast?  What about a pork belly?  These need gentle roasting.  You can't just say that there are no cuts of meat that don't benefit from a high roasting temperature. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koukouvagia 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by siduri 

I know this forum has both home and professional cooks and chefs, and so what i say has little weight.  But i have not found a meat that can be dry roasted that doesn't come out well cooking at a high temperature for the whole time. Maybe because there are no cuts here that are all that large like you'd get in then states, i don;t know, but my 8 kg turkey (17 lb?) is always cooked at about 450 and comes out juicy inside and crispy outside.  I tent it with foil if it seems to be getting too brown.  Roast beef (i rarely get to make this, since it's so expensive - consider about 4 times what it costs in the states) is the same.  I rarely find a whole leg of lamb (not baby lamb) but when i have it also comes out great.  I don;t understand why to cook it slow - apart from the fact that there are only so many hours i can stand smelling roasting meat without going crazy and cutting of a corner to eat it - it works really well and keeps it juicy inside and crusty outside.  (It does develop the crust, koukouvagia, if you LEAVE it at a high heat and you eliminate one more step.)

 What about osso bucco?  What about brisket?  What about pork shoulder or lamb shoulder?  What about pot roast?  What about roasting a chuck roast?  What about a pork belly?  These need gentle roasting.  You can't just say that there are no cuts of meat that don't benefit from a high roasting temperature. 

whoa dude/dudette

put the machine gun down

You got meat questions and recipe questions

Let's handle one at a time.

osso bucco is a recipe

brisket - 210 degrees for 12 hours

pork/lamb shoulder - fatty cuts, slow roast or sear and slow roast

pot roast? beef or pork, pot roast is not a cut.

chuck roast - bone in (seven bone roast) or boneless? I would sear and slow roast, it is a fatty cut

pork belly - oven sear and back down slow

are there other butchers here?

help me out bros!

Aso, while I thank you for answering my questions let me just say that they weren't really questions.  I was responding to Siduri who claimed that all meat should be cooked at a high temperature.  The "questions" I posed were all examples of meat dishes that can't be simply roasted at a high temperature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by siduri 

I know this forum has both home and professional cooks and chefs, and so what i say has little weight.  But i have not found a meat that can be dry roasted that doesn't come out well cooking at a high temperature for the whole time. Maybe because there are no cuts here that are all that large like you'd get in then states, i don;t know, but my 8 kg turkey (17 lb?) is always cooked at about 450 and comes out juicy inside and crispy outside.  I tent it with foil if it seems to be getting too brown.  Roast beef (i rarely get to make this, since it's so expensive - consider about 4 times what it costs in the states) is the same.  I rarely find a whole leg of lamb (not baby lamb) but when i have it also comes out great.  I don;t understand why to cook it slow - apart from the fact that there are only so many hours i can stand smelling roasting meat without going crazy and cutting of a corner to eat it - it works really well and keeps it juicy inside and crusty outside.  (It does develop the crust, koukouvagia, if you LEAVE it at a high heat and you eliminate one more step.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koukouvagia 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by siduri 

I know this forum has both home and professional cooks and chefs, and so what i say has little weight.  But i have not found a meat that can be dry roasted that doesn't come out well cooking at a high temperature for the whole time. Maybe because there are no cuts here that are all that large like you'd get in then states, i don;t know, but my 8 kg turkey (17 lb?) is always cooked at about 450 and comes out juicy inside and crispy outside.  I tent it with foil if it seems to be getting too brown.  Roast beef (i rarely get to make this, since it's so expensive - consider about 4 times what it costs in the states) is the same.  I rarely find a whole leg of lamb (not baby lamb) but when i have it also comes out great.  I don;t understand why to cook it slow - apart from the fact that there are only so many hours i can stand smelling roasting meat without going crazy and cutting of a corner to eat it - it works really well and keeps it juicy inside and crusty outside.  (It does develop the crust, koukouvagia, if you LEAVE it at a high heat and you eliminate one more step.)

 What about osso bucco?  What about brisket?  What about pork shoulder or lamb shoulder?  What about pot roast?  What about roasting a chuck roast?  What about a pork belly?  These need gentle roasting.  You can't just say that there are no cuts of meat that don't benefit from a high roasting temperature. 

Hi Koukouvagia

I didn't mean stewing meats or ones like pot roast that have to be cooked with moist heat - what i said was :

I know this forum has both home and professional cooks and chefs, and so what i say has little weight.  But i have not found a meat that can be dry roasted that doesn't come out well cooking at a high temperature for the whole time.

Now i haven't cooked all those cuts you mention, but the ones i recognize are are generally wet cooked, aren;t they?  - ossobuco, for instance, or pot roast.  I was speaking in a very limited way, of my own experience, with chicken, turkey, roast beef, roast leg of lamb, roast pork (not sure of the cut, there are all different cuts here) - i cook these all at hot temp and they all come out really good.  Yes, I used to cook them with a high beginning and then lowering the heat, but when my oven broke and could work only ON or OFF for a few years, till i could get another, i began cooking at high heat for the whole time, and found i liked the results much more: juicier inside and crispier outside.  But obviously not for stew meat or pot roast meat or any tough cut like that.  I think you should try it. 

Actually some of those cuts are not braise, like pork shoulder, lamb shoulder, chuck roast, or pork belly for example.  They do however need to be covered in the oven which I guess means it's not dry heat anymore.  Of course chickens and turkeys and legs of lamb respond beautifully to dry high heat.  But you would be surprised what happens if you wrap the leg of lamb en papillotte and slow roast it.  You get a completely different end result though.  The outside wont' be crispy and the inside won't be medium.  But it's a good result nonetheless.  The greeks call this dish "Lamb Kleftiko" which means "Stolen Lamb" and refers to a time when people would steal a sheep from a sheep herder and would cook it outdoors.  The would dig a hole and bury the lamb and then set a fire over it.  That way if the sheepherder came by looking for his stolen lamb it was nowhere in sight to be found lol!  Anyway the process took all day and apparently it can be served with a spoon.

Chris, I can think of one exception of roast beef where it benefits more from a slow roasting method.  It's a very cheap cut of beef called eye round.  Usually this cut is very difficult to roast medium rare because it literally has the texture of a shoe sole.  However I once saw an episode of America's Test Kitchen and they rubbed the meat with nearly a cup of salt and put it in the refrigerator overnight.  When it is time to cook it you wash off the salt, dry thoroughly then sear it on the stove top.  Transfer to a 250F oven for about 65-90 minutes or until it reaches 115F internally.  Then turn off the oven and leave it in there for another 30-40 minutes without opening the door.  Rest for 15 minutes before slicing.  It's the only example I can think of that benefits from low slow dry heat.  It's a very elegant meal but extremely inexpensive!

It is also the leanest muscle in the cow. We get $3.99/lb.

  Hi all,

  I think the beauty of some of the higer priced cuts is that you can use a varying dry heat sources and end up with a good product.  A nice Rib Roast will respond well to high heat cooking as well as a slow roast.  The outcome will give you two different products, which are both good. 

    I enjoy cooking a pork roast starting it off on high heat, then turning it down until it reaches an internal temp around 1110-115, take it away from the heat source wrap the top in foil and place in a cooler until the internal temp comes up around 125-130f.  Finish in the oven with moderate heat raising it only at the end to finish any crust that's needed.  The result is incredibly tender, juicy, flavorful pork.

   Would I slow cook lamb chops?   No, I wouldn't.  I've got no idea of it works or not...but I would just stick to what works with lamb chops.  Coincidentally, I made some lamb chops for the wife and I last night.  Gosh are lamb chops good...I wish they were cheaper.

   As I said, I believe many different temperatures can work with a rib roast.  But If I spent the money for a nice dry aged rib roast I would choose a method of cooking that imparted as little flavor on the meat as possible.  I love cooking over a lump fire and also love smoking.   But when I spend the money on a nice dry aged roast I want to taste the craftsmanship of the individual aging the meat for me.  But that's just me...I have no doubt that a dry aged steak cooked over lump would certainly be great.

   While I've cooked many rib roast, using a variety of different heat sources and temperature, A nice slow roasted/basted rib roast is probably my favorite (with a smoked rib roast being a close second.  I actually just got done eating a slow roasted rib roast at work a few minutes ago.  Instead of plugging the roast with garlic by cutting slits in the meat, I normally create channels from the side if the roast (I'll use a temperature probe to create an opening where the fat/tissue touch, then plug garlic along this channel).  I score the fat on top, season and start off at high heat, then turn it low... basting throughout the entire cooking process. 

   Today I went with a slow roasted rib roast channeled with garlic and a sprig of rosemary and then basted with juices and fresh squeezed lemon.  The result is such a tender piece of meat with so much flavor and a nicely rendered crust of tasty goodness.  Potatoes were cooked in the same pan as the rib roast with roasted garlic, rosemary sprigs and lemon slices...the roast and potatoes were basted with the juices/fat at the same times throughout.

   Smoking is almost as good.  While I like a rib roast cooked with high heat too, both of these slow methods puts out a product I like much much more.

    yum!

   dan