Shun knives... VG-10 vs SG-2 Steel ?

On the whole, Shun knives are overpriced for what they are. Perfectly respectable mass-production Japanese knives, good fit-and-finish, but rather high prices. You need to make some decisions, clearly, but I think you are blurring issues that you may not realize are separate.

If you want Shun, and your choices are these two knives, I'd advise you to focus on what you like. The difference in steels is going to be trivial here.

If you want VG-10, we need to know why, precisely. We need to know how you sharpen, and on what. Granted that, we need to know what it is you find so sexy about this particular Shun knife, and why. That may lead to some very different suggestions, knives you may never have heard of but which are in many respects superior to the Shun.

The question is twofold:

• are you deciding based on steel qualities, and if so which ones, and is your cutting and sharpening set up in such a way that the distinction you're trying to draw is accurately drawn?
• are you deciding between two Shun knives, period full stop, in which case is the steel an appropriate overriding concern?

Luis,

Your replies are very clear. While we all muse on this question -- I for one am not the guy to get into fine details of stainless alloys, since I only use carbon (that's not intended as a snipe at stainless, I just don't happen to use any) -- one more: what's your budget?

Luis I am also new to the world of Japanese knives myself so take this as being from a fellow Noob.

It sounds like you are not 100% on the Shun, but do like it's style etc, but also sound very interested in learning about or checking out some of the many others available. Though I personally found it a bit overwhelming due to the vast differences and similarities as well I do recommend doing your research as there are some seriously nice looking and originally styled knives available. You will also open yourself up to various different steels beyond the initial two you mention.

I was not in your same budget range when I made my initial purchase (but still got some great knives for little bit less :) ) but I looked at just about everything I could find and there are some extremely nice products available within a few dollars of your initial budget.

Since you have been looking around I am sure your familiar with most posters preferred vendors etc but I wanted to give you a single link that shows many prospects at one time. You can get what you like from where you decide etc but I believe there are some beautiful products here http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SPECIALS.html

I guess I could have just said here is some nice ones to consider while your waiting on answers LOL

Luis, Sorry but misery loves company

and if my budget allowed an increase at the time there were just so many choices I would have considered (sorry but most over not only the Shun your considering, but also what I ended up buying as well) but for now there all relegated to a future wish list.

Don't feel bad for me though as it is looking like having some time to hone my sharpening skills will be a benefit as it would have been no fun screwing up really nice ones etc.

Also I am sure you will get lots of very good suggestions and information from the crew here as they are tops and very helpful. Just be honest that your open to exploring your options and just where performance, looks, and function take precedence in your decision.

Good luck!

There are differences between SG2 and VG-10 but one isn't clearly better than the other.  Because the SG2 can be made harder it's more easily hyped.  But the extra hardness doesn't make a lot of difference in use.  That is, if you want your knives truly sharp you won't be able to go 6 months between sharpening the SG2 if you'd ordinarily sharpen the VG-10 at 4 months.  Your actual sharpening intervals will likely stay about the same.

I recommend that people avoid Shun chef's knives like the plague unless they already have good knife skills and know exactly what they want.  The Shun chef's shap is an exaggerated "German profile" with a lot of arc and an extra high tip, which makes for an exaggerated rocking motion.  Most Japanese chef's (aka gyutos) use a "French profile," which will not only make for a nice change compared to your other knives but allow you some insight into which type of chopping action actually works best for you.

The Shun "Damscus" pattern doesn't hold up particularly well, so if you're very "visual," you might want to think about that as well.

On the other hand, Shuns do have very nice fit and finish and with some "reprofiling" can be brought to a very good edge.

If money is tight, I suggest investing in a good sharpening kit and learning to use it before investing in a high end knife.

Muy buena suerte,

BDL

Thanks for the kind words but I can not really take credit as I was little more than the messenger etc.

I do agree some of the best information on kitchen knives on the net can be found here, and oddly for me it was more about less than more as it was better to have a not as many opinions thrown at you (especially in the very beginning when your still a the equal of a newborn to this stuff) as I see on other sites, and even the good ones that you will find yourself at later on.

I did not have to stress over it's looks as you did due to it being well beyond my budget at time of purchase etc. I do believe their decision on markings in English for the face of the blade is due for a rework and is just a bit awkward and borderline fugly looking, and this was something the Tojiro DP series shared, but it was less an issue at the $30-$90 range than the price of the Macs. Still performance and cost should really take a front seat to looks, and the other side of the blade looks fine etc so I would not sweat it at all

I am pretty sure you will like it from everything I have read about it (BDL does not like every knife out there lol) and from my short experience with other manufacturers that many seem to feel are not up to Mac standards etc it has to be a very good knife.

Don't forget to let us know all about what you think when you receive it and get some time with it etc.

hi luis, i too love the look of the edo, but have not bought one because i have a 10 inch elite now for 3 months and it has not been even close to dull, the sg-2 is so good it is powder steel i dont think i will buy anything under a rockwell hardness of 64 again

I have several shun classics, and a few ken onions (all VG10) but I also have an elite (SG2).  Simply put, my elite makes my classics look like fisher- price toys.  It is unquestionably superior both in sharpness and edge retention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefderek 

I have several shun classics, and a few ken onions (all VG10) but I also have an elite (SG2).  Simply put, my elite makes my classics look like fisher- price toys.  It is unquestionably superior both in sharpness and edge retention.

+1

believe me after you use it youll understand... its like disrespecting the material (the food)... when u cut something its like cutting the air... and  i used alot of knives many brands.. it worth the money . ART!

its very strong material but the blade is very delicate... if you need to sharp the knife its better for you to send them the knife (KAI) if its possible ofcourse or you can just read alot and try carefully using stone. im learning about it too actually :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by noririco 

its very strong material but the blade is very delicate... if you need to sharp the knife its better for you to send them the knife (KAI) if its possible ofcourse or you can just read alot and try carefully using stone. im learning about it too actually :)

FWIW (love that expression BTW as it is like a disclaimer to anything that is about to be said LOL) I think in order to be a true enthusiast or knife nut etc you have to work on your own edges, and yes that means putting in the time to get addicted to sharpening as much if not more than the knife :)

For me it has been interesting and a bit fun to see how different steels, and brands sharpen, hold their edge and perform at different angles. Almost as much as getting the initial delivery etc.

I don't have any Shun products (well I do have one KAI but it is a lower cost wasabi bread knife) as I did not find them on my short list mostly due to cost vs value and profile and style, but I have seen enough of the Ken Onion and other KAI products in the discount stores to see they are quality and appear to be a good knife from various reviews etc, but if your going to be afraid to sharpen due to cost or bling etc then it may make more sense to start with lower cost J knives that you can be relaxed with and not as worried about.

Wish one of the more experienced members would chime in as most of my experience is with non J knives, and these are still new to me etc, but just by luck I ended up with an initial purchase that included entry level clad VG10 knives (Tojiro) and a mono moly steel (Fujiwara) of different hardness that allowed to not only learn sharpening on knives that were less expensive and removed the worry effect, but also to be able to compare the way the different steels and hardness were to sharpen and perform etc.

So even though there may be a big difference in any brand between the higher and lower end steels that does not mean one is better than another to everyone for every use, but just that it is different.

Was in a discussion in another thread where another poster was not fond of VG10, and claimed to prefer the softer steel of the Fujiwara (around 58HRC) except in one specific knife (hattori FH) and remember most of the VG10 is @ 60-64 HRC range.

Point is that everyone has different thoughts for different reasons, and it really ends up being a personal decision and preference thing.

So just be open to different options, sharpening included, and find your own way to what you really like, enjoy, and prefer.