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I hate Vegans (cooking)........!!!!! - Page 2

post #31 of 56

In addition, some vegans won't eat honey either because a Bee actually made it.

 

post #32 of 56

 

Did you ever eat a pine cone? ... Many parts are edible. 

post #33 of 56

I'm confused! Why would a vegetarian/vegan want a meal that tastes like meat?

 

 

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post #34 of 56

It seems to me that every restaurant , especially fine dining, should have vegetarian (may as well make it vegan) options on the menu.  That just seems like good business.  I run a BBQ trailer and we offer house made veggie burgers, and often sandwiches of grilled squash or eggplant.  I think that a fine dinning establishment could have some great vegan offerings on the appetizer menu that could be upsized for vegans.  There are tons of great recipes in this thread that would work that way.  I love meat, hell I run a BBQ trailer, but I often order meat free appetizers.

post #35 of 56

 

Quote:
That just seems like good business.

Couldn't agree with you more, but I will defend to the death, the right of business owners to be stubborn (I was going to say pig-headed, but didn't want to offend anyone's sensibilities).

 

 

Quote:
It seems to me that every restaurant , especially fine dining, should have vegetarian (may as well make it vegan) options on the menu.


I usually had about 14 entrees on my weekly changing menu and 3 would be vegetarian, with 1 being vegan. Just being curious though, how many people would go to a fine dining vegetarian restaurant and expect carnivore options. I believe I know the answer, but my question is why?

 

 

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post #36 of 56

Assuming this is the same Chef Layne from a year ago!  Had this question before, but now that ya jumped back in I thought it was fair game again! :)

 

On these guys from your menu...what do you use for a binder to keep them Vegan?  I have a great "veggie" burger, but use some non-vegan things to hold it together...and I have been getting requests for a Vegan version...nobody as pushy as in this thread... :) I just want to see if it is worth my time to come up with an alternate or replacement...Texture is important to keep the right balance of moisture, tenderness...etc.  Thanks!

 

 

Indian Style Lentil Cakes Patties made with Lentils, Corn, Zucchini, Fennel, Onion, and Celery, pan sauteed and topped with Curried Red Onions, then drizzled with a Mint and Coriander Raita

post #37 of 56

i am just curious,

i have no vegan or even vegetarian items planned for my menus.

sure, a vegetarian could find things to eat, and I could certainly whip up something special for one.

but vegan?  that's a whole different animal.

 

do any of you really feel that we need to cater to a vegan diner?

I am all for their choices and all, but not at my place.

 

am i really out of touch here?

post #38 of 56
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonesdilligaf View Post

...do any of you really feel that we need to cater to a vegan diner?.

Perhaps when vegan restaurants begin catering to non-vegans?

 

Look, when one is dealing with food preferences, remember it is preferences!

 

Dickies B-B-Q just opened in our town, do you really expect them to offer

  • Seafood
  • Steaks
  • Vegetarian plates
  • Vegan plates
  • Raw food options
  • Low fat alternatives
  • Mexican food
  • Thai curries
  • etc.

 

for goodness sake, they don't even offer a burger and fries! And they sure don't have tofu!

 

Why would they? The sign out front says "Dickies B-B-Q"!

 

A pizza place sells pizzas and is full of wheat dust. Why in the world would you expect to find gluten free options? If someone did offer something like that, wonderful, but to expect it? You are kidding, right?

 

I have absolutely nothing against a restaurant that wants to cater to specific food preferences, more power and good luck to them.

 

I have absolutely everything against ANYONE telling me what options I have to offer!

 

Just as you are free to ask me whether I am able to serve xyz preference, I am free to say no.

 

Perhaps when xyz preference becomes a significant percentage of my market population, I may change my mind, but just because someone else thinks it is a good idea is no reason to force me to change just to make them happy.

 

You know, I wear size 13A shoes and the closest shoe store that carries ANY shoes of my size is 200 miles away. Just think, if my local shoe store carried my size how much of my business they would get, obviously probably 100%. How often do I buy shoes? Um, once every two to three years and my purchases are probably something around 0.000001% of the gross income of the local shoes store. Now, if there were more than 1 out of 55,000 that wore 13 As, at some point it DOES make sense to carry my size, but that is the shoe store owner's decision, not mine.

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post #39 of 56

Binder for Vegans: Pureed Tofu actually does work as a binder in some dishes. I make Vegan Meatloaf using Pureed Tofu, Mushrooms and spices. I then put it in the oven.

Ener-G Egg replacer also works in baking. 1/2 a banana substitutes for 1 egg and works well in baking. Psyllium makes a bread spongy and is used in Raw Foods Garlic bread. http://www.therawchef.com/chef/free-videos/

 

Why meatless Meat? Some of us LOVE meats and chickens but became allergic to them, so had to go Vegan/Vegetarian. I'm one of them.

 

Why cater? Sometimes, no matter how hard we (anyone with a special diet) try, we can not get out of going out of town because of Works requirements. Also, some of us love to go on holidays/vacations. What would our life be like if we could not get a kitchenette and no one would feed us? Very sad. Think about how you would feel if you were in our shoes. Believe me, after going to three restaurants and being turned away in a major city, you feel sad, very hungry and want to cry. You also feel discriminated against because the restaurant serves rice or noodles and refused to even serve you plain noodles with nothing on it. Pathetic! (I'm actually supposed to be gluten free due to celiac, but will eat noodles if nothing is available.)

 

Now consider how you would feel if you went through this while on a date and you were the female? I'm not married because of my food allergies. I've not found anyone who could handle watching me go with out. They felt bad for me and then ran. I don't blame them really. I had wanted to run so many times.

 

post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcCracken View Post

Perhaps when vegan restaurants begin catering to non-vegans?

 

Look, when one is dealing with food preferences, remember it is preferences!

 

Dickies B-B-Q just opened in our town, do you really expect them to offer

  • Seafood
  • Steaks
  • Vegetarian plates
  • Vegan plates
  • Raw food options
  • Low fat alternatives
  • Mexican food
  • Thai curries
  • etc.

 

for goodness sake, they don't even offer a burger and fries! And they sure don't have tofu!

 

Why would they? The sign out front says "Dickies B-B-Q"!

 

A pizza place sells pizzas and is full of wheat dust. Why in the world would you expect to find gluten free options? If someone did offer something like that, wonderful, but to expect it? You are kidding, right?

 

I have absolutely nothing against a restaurant that wants to cater to specific food preferences, more power and good luck to them.

 

I have absolutely everything against ANYONE telling me what options I have to offer!

 

Just as you are free to ask me whether I am able to serve xyz preference, I am free to say no.

 

Perhaps when xyz preference becomes a significant percentage of my market population, I may change my mind, but just because someone else thinks it is a good idea is no reason to force me to change just to make them happy.

 

You know, I wear size 13A shoes and the closest shoe store that carries ANY shoes of my size is 200 miles away. Just think, if my local shoe store carried my size how much of my business they would get, obviously probably 100%. How often do I buy shoes? Um, once every two to three years and my purchases are probably something around 0.000001% of the gross income of the local shoes store. Now, if there were more than 1 out of 55,000 that wore 13 As, at some point it DOES make sense to carry my size, but that is the shoe store owner's decision, not mine.




well said...

but now off topic...

this is the second time someone said they had problems finding shoes in size 13...

what the hell? I wear a 13 and except for a visit to China, I can always find shoes...

my youngest kid however (20 and 6'7") wears a 15, his shoes are a challenge..lol

post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alticibi View Post

Assuming this is the same Chef Layne from a year ago!  Had this question before, but now that ya jumped back in I thought it was fair game again! :)

 

On these guys from your menu...what do you use for a binder to keep them Vegan?  I have a great "veggie" burger, but use some non-vegan things to hold it together...and I have been getting requests for a Vegan version...nobody as pushy as in this thread... :) I just want to see if it is worth my time to come up with an alternate or replacement...Texture is important to keep the right balance of moisture, tenderness...etc.  Thanks!

 

 

Indian Style Lentil Cakes Patties made with Lentils, Corn, Zucchini, Fennel, Onion, and Celery, pan sauteed and topped with Curried Red Onions, then drizzled with a Mint and Coriander Raita

In the case of these lentil cakes, I used some of the lentils themselves ground into a paste to act as a binder. Rolled oats also make a good binder, as does rice and panko. Just be aware that not all panko is vegan, one major brand is made with honey and butter.
 

 

Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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post #42 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheflayne View Post
 Just being curious though, how many people would go to a fine dining vegetarian restaurant and expect carnivore options. I believe I know the answer, but my question is why?

 

 


Just to change the question around a little, how many people would go to a fine dining vegetarian restaurant and expect vegan options.

 

I recently perused the pre fixe menu from Saturday night at Greens restaurant in San Francisco, which is IMO one of the premier vegetarian restaurant in the USA. The menu was a 4 course offering. The first course was not vegan. The second included 5 offerings, with 1 possibly being vegan. The third course included 3 offerings and depending upon how they make their crepes, none were vegan. I didn't look at the dessert menu.

 

Now that is not say that Greens would not accommodate vegans. They might easily and graciously do just that with that very menu. I don't know!

 

But what about raw food vegetarians?

 

What about raw food vegans?

 

The point I am trying make is that any time a chef and or restaurateurs go public with their visions, there is bound to be someone who has a different vision. At some point, a line has to be drawn in the sand, otherwise insanity ensues. Even so, that line is going to offend someone's sensibilities, guaranteed.

CATCH 22 !!!

 

Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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post #43 of 56

What type of cuisine? What are your staple seasonings?

post #44 of 56

Cooked potato makes a great binder for veggie cake/burgers.

post #45 of 56

I am happy to make an exception to someone with a allergy beyond that i feel being vegetarian or vegan is a life choice and an option based on someone having too many choices of what to eat presented to them or pushing for attention and i am unwilling to cater. Travel a little to places where people barely survive and offer you a meal with maybe a small bit of fish and tell them you wont eat it because it is unethical....... sorry but its not an allergy so i am unwilling to run circles based on your beliefs . 

post #46 of 56

Personally, I think that Vegans and Vegetarians are best served going to restaurants that cater to them because that way they will get a complete meal that is healthy. However, it should be really easy to just leave the chicken or meat off the platter. It really can't be that difficult to toss something together on the fly for a Vegan/Vegetarian where they aren't at a Steak House. I've made a quickie soup out of mixed vegetables and crushed tomatoes. Added rice and called it a meal. I was out of beans. The only time it took was to cook the vegetables, add it to the tomatoes, add the spices and heat it up.

 

I've even made a Chili in a quick. Of course, that time I was at home and had forgotten to start supper. I was a teenager about to get yelled at by my parents if they found out I had forgotten to start supper. They walked in that door, and supper was done - in ten minutes flat.

post #47 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlergkVegtarian View Post
...I've even made a Chili in a quick. Of course, that time I was at home and had forgotten to start supper. I was a teenager about to get yelled at by my parents if they found out I had forgotten to start supper. They walked in that door, and supper was done - in ten minutes flat.

Yes, but were you getting two steak dinners, three fish plates, six grilled hamburgers, and for risottos ready at the same time? crazy.gif

 

You are probably correct for a home kitchen, but for a restaurant that is doing 180 covers an hour, BTW, that's three every minute, five minutes to prepare one vegetarian/vegan order may mean fifteen other people will have to wait!
 

 

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post #48 of 56

Pete I cant agree with you more, especially when most sauces, sides etc have touched some form of animal being stock, gelatin etc to make something special mid rush.... 

post #49 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcCracken View Post

Yes, but were you getting two steak dinners, three fish plates, six grilled hamburgers, and for risottos ready at the same time? crazy.gif

 

You are probably correct for a home kitchen, but for a restaurant that is doing 180 covers an hour, BTW, that's three every minute, five minutes to prepare one vegetarian/vegan order may mean fifteen other people will have to wait!
 

 

 

Good Earth restaurant when they were very busy (graduation with everyone thinking alike) was able to serve me a Allergy free Vegan dish with sauce made from scratch. I was served a noodle dish with a custom sauce made out of tomatoes, cayenne, sweet basil and olive oil with added beans and spinach. That chef was amazing! BTW, I had no say in when we ate nor where we ate.

 

And that chili... I was a teenager. Now I can make a Vegan chili in almost 1 minute plus heating up time - that includes opening up a can of beans and a can of crushed tomato, tossing in the mushrooms (portobello and button), spinach or peas and using spice blend. Add two minutes if I have to accommodate a nightshade allergy and puree beets instead of using tomatoes. And maybe another minute and a half to add in spices one at a time due to Cayenne being in that spice blend. However, I would have a nightshade free spice blend already bottled and ready to grab in a pinch, because I can. I'd argue that the Vegan chili took less time. BTW Tomato sauce can be faked using beets with one carrot added, pureed together.

 

 

post #50 of 56

Not doubting you however, the restaurant HAD to have the raw ingredients available. Suppose they did not have canned tomatoes, sweet basil, beans, and spinach?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlergkVegtarian View Post

 

Good Earth restaurant when they were very busy (graduation with everyone thinking alike) was able to serve me a Allergy free Vegan dish with sauce made from scratch. I was served a noodle dish with a custom sauce made out of tomatoes, cayenne, sweet basil and olive oil with added beans and spinach. That chef was amazing! BTW, I had no say in when we ate nor where we ate.

 

And that chili... I was a teenager. Now I can make a Vegan chili in almost 1 minute plus heating up time - that includes opening up a can of beans and a can of crushed tomato, tossing in the mushrooms (portobello and button), spinach or peas and using spice blend. Add two minutes if I have to accommodate a nightshade allergy and puree beets instead of using tomatoes. And maybe another minute and a half to add in spices one at a time due to Cayenne being in that spice blend. However, I would have a nightshade free spice blend already bottled and ready to grab in a pinch, because I can. I'd argue that the Vegan chili took less time. BTW Tomato sauce can be faked using beets with one carrot added, pureed together.

I reiterate, if one has:

  • the ingredients on hand, and
  • the staff available to take the time for special orders, and
  • the space and labor to prep items during service, and
  • the Chef, or even one or two line cooks, have the knowledge, and
  • the owner/manager/chef desires to serve a special need

you are absolutely correct.

 

When my restaurant was open, I did not stock

  • Canned beans, nor
  • Canned tomatoes, nor
  • Spinach, nor
  • Beets, nor
  • Carrots, nor
  • Tofu, nor
  • Gluten free products of any kind, nor
  • anything else not on my active menu

 

My restaurant had one place to prep, cook, and plate. Clean pans, not a problem, clean utensils, not a problem, gluten free cutting boards? Impossible. Gluten free pans, utensils, counter tops? Probably not, I certainly would not stop and strip the kitchen to do so. No peanut oil, residue, or nuts? Um, I cook with peanut oil, peanut butter, and other peanut products, that is why there is an allergy warning at the front door listing gluten, peanuts, dairy products, etc.

 

You want margarine? Not in my restaurant. You want tofu? Not in my restaurant. You want Korean food? Not in my restaurant. You want Sashimi or Sushi? Not in my restaurant. You want Chicken Fried Steak and it is not on the menu? Forget it.

 

My menu was posted readable from outside the restaurant. It clearly states NO SUBSTITUTIONS.

 

I sympathize with your eating restrictions and desires. However, I cannot afford to use my limited facilities to be prepared to serve the less than 1% of my market and have a hope of staying in business. Perhaps a taxpayer supported facility could.

 

Within the constraints of what I had on hand, I did try to accommodate special wants and needs.

 

However, my Chicken Cacciatore could not be made vegetarian, let alone vegan, because it took three hours to prepare it in the sauce, and I did not have the raw ingredients on hand. Give me six hours notice, 24 is better, and it was a different situation.

 

Same goes for the Osso Buco, Apple Stuffed Pork Loin, Roasted Butternut Squash, Butter braised Brussels Sprouts and all my desserts.

 

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post #51 of 56

It absolutely amazes me. Why does every single situational difficulty happen "mid rush"?  Crack me up! Doesn't anything ever happen off-peak?!?

 

OK. I could be wrong here, but I think a restaurant doing "180 covers an hour" is big enough and well stocked enough and has a good enough cook/chef somebody/anybody to throw together a special on the fly. 

 

Who exactly travels "to places where people barely survive" expecting to eat anything?  Has the Discovery/PBS channel just find some new 3rd-world country with a new line of restaurant franchises? 

 

As for "Greens restaurant in San Francisco", LOL, they're okey-doakey with vegans. They can feed them nicely as walk-ins and even better phoning ahead. Really, call them. I did. Ask for "Laurie", she is really nice and understands things very well. 

 

Making "gluten-free" pizza is a walk in the park. You've gotta be some real hack-job pizza place if you can't pull that off. Turn in your PIE card. 

 

Feeding vegans is no big deal. You've just gotta want to do it.  Nay-sayers need not apply. 

 

 

 

post #52 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceMan View Post
As for "Greens restaurant in San Francisco", LOL, they're okey-doakey with vegans. 

 


I figured they were okey-doakey with vegans, but that wasn't the point that I was trying to make. I also am okey-doakey with vegans. I relish the challenge and opportunity they provide, to think outside my omnivore box.

 

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post #53 of 56

Ice man it was not the point of traveling to these places expecting to eat but that in our culture we are making laundry lists of what we will not eat and being overly picky just because we have the option to and being obnoxious about it. 

post #54 of 56

a kajillon years ago I directed farmer-chef dinners, it was interesting to see how many top tier independent restaurants (chefs) got their boxers in a bunch figuring out what to feed vegetarians.  One of the regular customers for the series used to say that she got REALLY tired of pasta with red sauce or a portabella topped with tons of cheese.   

 

I'm into meat just as much as anyone else, but sometimes it feels better to eat lighter...which to me means fresh veg, light or no sauce, whole grains.....

 

cooking with all your senses.....
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post #55 of 56

PeteMcCracken: Yes, I agree IF they have it on hand. I do not expect any anti-vegan restaurant to carry Tofu. I do not expect Steak Houses to feed me anything. I would love it if I could always eat at home. Much saner! I'd also love it if I lived in England. It is easier to get Fish that was not breaded. Oh yea, I also wish that whenever special occasions arise where I am required to eat out, I could choose the time so that I'm not at a restaurant during their busy hours.

 

GF Pizza can not be made on the fly in many pizza places. Why? Often they only carry Wheat flour. Minor difficulty here. Pizza Ranch actually has French Meadow Bakery make their GF pizza doughs. Its is one of the few vinegar-free Gluten-Free pizza doughs I've found.

 

Gluten free flours: Buckwheat, Soy flour, Rice flour, Amaranth flour (cereal free), just to name a very few.

post #56 of 56

Non-vegan restaurant I can accept, anti-vegan restaurant I take umbrage at the characterization!

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