or Connect
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Cooking Discussions › Food & Cooking › Secret to THICK mayo
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Secret to THICK mayo

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 

Recently I had the pleasure of dining in a Japanese steakhouse that served shrimp covered in "Kogane" sauce.  This was a thick yellow egg sauce that is used in blobs to top butterflied shrimp who are then squirted with brandy and covered.  The sauce steams and the result is a firm, impossibly light, deliciously eggy topping.  Naturally I decided that I had to make this and after a bit of googling discovered that the stuff was pretty much steamed mayo with perhaps a little extra yolk.

 

I've always known how to make Mayo but never in my professional career had I ever been called upon to make it myself as Hellmann's has handled all mayo duties in every kitchen I've ever worked in.  Its not a difficult concept but I was disappointed with my first attempts.  I need a THICK mayo, like cold Hellmann's to recreate this dish.  My mayo is passable but just isn't the tightly wound emulsion that I'm after.

 

2 yolks

1 c soybean oil

juice of 1/2 lemon

pinch of salt

few dashes of tobasco

 

Using the recipe above, my trusty stick blender, and the tall narrow container that came with, this is what I've tried:

 

First I mixed everything together and slowly added the oil, eventually in a stream.  Runny, almost pourable mayo.

 

I've seen people do it where they'll add everything into the tall narrow container including all the oil at once, push the blender down to the bottom, and go to town.  I tried this and my result was exactly the same.

 

I heard that my eggs should be at room temperature for a better emulsion.  Didn't help.

 

At this point I suspect that my woes are for two reasons.  I did my experiment at my parents house using their eggs that might not be fresh enough for what I'm attempting.  Does this really make a HUGE difference?  My next guess is that the mayo is supposed to be like that and the only way to thicken it up is to chill it.  I'll try more experiments soon but first I'd like to poll the cheftalk community.  Who knows the secret to very thick homemade mayo?

post #2 of 40

I've done it with a stick blender much like your recipe and it came out much firmer than commercial mayo.

 

Perhaps you need a more powerful/higher speed blender to get the air whipped in? My stick blender is just an inexpensive Cuisinart. But my old Braun had slowed down noticeably over the years before I replaced it with the current Cuisinart. You should try your food processor too.

post #3 of 40

Your mixing apperatus to slow or your ingredients to warm, or not mixed long enough.  Keep in mind many commercial Mayonaises have thickeners and stabilizers added and some even preservatives.

Your recipe is fine as far as ratios go.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Reply

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Reply
post #4 of 40

FWIW, Michael Ruhlman's ratio is:

 

                    
* Exported from MasterCook *

                                Mayonnaise

Recipe By     :Formatted by Pete V. McCracken, 657 Village Green St., Porterville, CA 93257 (559) 784-6192 PersonalChef@cwdi.org
Serving Size  : 0     Preparation Time :0:00
Categories    : Fat-Based Sauces

  Amount  Measure       Ingredient -- Preparation Method
--------  ------------  --------------------------------
  20             parts  oil
  1               part  liquid
  1               each  egg yolk

Source:
  ""Ratio", Michael Ruhlman, ISBN-13: 978-1-4165-6611-3  ISBN-10: 1-4165-6611-2"
                                    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 38602 Calories; 4365g Fat (100.0% calories from fat); 3g Protein; trace Carbohydrate; 0g Dietary Fiber; 213mg Cholesterol; 7mg Sodium.  Exchanges: 1/2 Lean Meat; 872 1/2 Fat.


Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #5 of 40

The trick is quite simple. When making mayo by hand whisking, only use eggyolks. When using machinery, such as a handmixer or stick blender as you call it, add the eggwhites too and you'll have the perfect and thickest mayo. That's the secret.

post #6 of 40
Thread Starter 

My stick blender is a beast--a commercial robot coupe.  I don't think its the issue.

 

chefedb,

I tried both cold and room temperature eggs with room temperature oil.  I can't imagine this is too warm as everyone keeps their soybean oil out.

 

ChrisBelgium,

Why would that make sense?

post #7 of 40

In my experience, a yolk can hold a cup of oil, and the more oil the thicker it gets. Increase your oil a bit and it should thicken up.

post #8 of 40

The first & second times I made mayo with a stick blender, it worked perfectly.  Third & fourth times it didn't work at all.  Then it worked again.  Then I quit using the stick blender & tried my food processor, which has worked perfectly every time.  

The genesis of all the world's great cuisines can be summed up in a four word English phrase: Don't throw that away.
Reply
The genesis of all the world's great cuisines can be summed up in a four word English phrase: Don't throw that away.
Reply
post #9 of 40

I usually make mayo by hand, but I've tried using a stick blender in a tall narrow container, and it works great to make instant super thick mayo. Just pour everything in the glass, put the stick blender all the way at the bottom of the glass, start blending and as the bottom gets thick, slowly bring the stick blender up the glass until the top is thick. Should take no longer than 5-10 seconds max.

 

By hand, the slower you pour the oil, the thicker the emulsion.

post #10 of 40

Ben,

 

. Maybe the egg ration, I don't know ? Pete has the recipe straight out....and French Fries has the technique ....so I will still add my one cent.

 

1 egg

1/2- 1 cup oil

plus 1 tbsp lemon juice

 

all ingredients at room temp. Using the right oil helps.

 

 The way French Fries makes his is basically they way I make mine, starting from the bottom and working your way up in a narrow container. The smart stick or stick blender is the fastest way to make it.....seconds really, giving a nice thick mayo.

For a really rich tasting mayo (not really thick) use just the yolks......just a thought.

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(163 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(163 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply
post #11 of 40

Why it makes sense to use the egg yolk, I don't know, but it works!

I think it's just that the speed of the food processor can emulsify the whole egg as opposed to only the egg yolk by hand mixing.

 

I use the food processor and as said the whole egg. It makes for a light yellow, firm mayonaisse

Life is too short to drink bad wine
---Anonymus---

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad wine
---Anonymus---

Reply
post #12 of 40

Quote Benway; Why would that make sense? 

 

It has indeed to do with the speed of the blades of the foodprocessor (so I'm told). You can never beat that intense by hand.

Adding the eggwhites too seems a little odd, but, try it and see for yourself, it makes a big difference in consistency!

 

Also, the method that French Fries explains is the easiest way to make mayo. Use also eggwhites and you will have the thickest mayo in seconds...

post #13 of 40
Thread Starter 

Theoretically the major players in the thickness of mayo is oil, water, and the emulsifier lecithin.  The thickness should come from a lot of fat bonding with very little water, making big blobs of tightly wound emulsion.  To my understanding the thickest possible Mayo, should be when the amount of water, with lecithin in excess, is as low as possible while the amount of oil is as high as possible.  The limiting factor of course being when the sauce breaks.  Leaving the egg white is essentially just leaving water.  More water means more oil is needed to reach the thickest state, which means that I'm diluting my yolk flavor, which I'd rather be concentrating.  Anyways what do I know, I'm the one who can't get it to work.

 

As I mentioned above, I tried the method described by french fries, I had seen this done and it looked pretty fool proof.  I still think the eggs are to blame.  The lecithin content of eggs supposedly decreases with age.  The eggs in my parents fridge are probably pushing it.

 
post #14 of 40

From Michael Ruhlman's "Ratio", page 167-168

 

Quote:
Harold McGee, in On Food and Cooking, notes that there is plenty of emulsifying power in a single yolk: "A single yolk can emulsify a dozen cups of oil or more." Importantly, he goes on, What is critical is the ratio of oil to water."
 
The above ratio is updated to account for and underscore that fact that without water (or some form of it, such as lemon juice or vinegar) a handmade mayonnaise is virtually impossible. Mayonnaises can and will break, not if too much oil is added relatively to the quantity of yolk, but relative to the amount of water you've included...
 
...But if there is not enough water, the oil droplets will break through the barrier and join with the other oil droplets and the mixture will quickly turn to an oily soup.

Further on on page 169-170, Ruhlman provides a solution to broken mayonnaise:

 

Quote:
To reemulsify a broken mayonnaise, get a new bowl, add a teaspoon of water (and if you wish a little more egg yolk), and begin adding the broken mayo to the water while whisking continuously until you have a properly disciplined sauce.

 

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #15 of 40

Those are Excellent points !

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(163 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(163 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply
post #16 of 40

The secret is simple, small oil droplets, not too much water and also broken down into small droplets.  You can make mayo of any texture from runny hollandaise to spackle.

 

If you're using a whisk you will need a lot of elbow grease to get that thick consistency.  Easier to use a blender or food processor.  Proportions you listed are not a problem but it is true that one egg yolk can emulsify a lot more oil (provided you have enough water to hold the emulsion).

 

 

"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
Reply
"If it's chicken, chicken a la king. If it's fish, fish a la king. If it's turkey, fish a la king." -Bender
Reply
post #17 of 40

water in homemade mayo? that's a new one.....

joey

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

Reply

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

Reply
post #18 of 40

Water OR lemon juice OR vinegar OR some other flavorful liquid that is not fat based!

 

Lecithin, the emulsifier in egg yolks, is a bi-polar molecule, one end is attracted to fats, the other to water, for it to work correctly, there has to be both available.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by durangojo View Post

water in homemade mayo? that's a new one.....

joey



 

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #19 of 40

I don't use water or vinegar or lemon juice or anything, however I always add a tablespoon of dijon mustard to the yolk, I guess that gives me the needed amount of water you guys are talking about. 

post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by French Fries View Post

I don't use water or vinegar or lemon juice or anything, however I always add a tablespoon of dijon mustard to the yolk, I guess that gives me the needed amount of water you guys are talking about. 

Well, the ingredient list for the Dijon mustard I have is:

  • Water
  • Mustard seed
  • Distilled Vinegar
  • Salt
  • White wine
  • Citric acid
  • Tartaric acid
  • pectin
  • spices

So, three of the first five ingredients are water or water based liquids

 

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #21 of 40

I'm sure all scientific literature, facts, measurements and explanation are very correct, but I prefer to go for pragmatic simplicity, performed by a billion housewives and cooks in the past and present, who made and make their own mayo. It still works, it always will. Also, when making a traditional mayo first, you can always add all kinds of other stuff afterward to make your personalized version.

 

Here's the very classic recipe from.. 3 Michelinstar cook Peter Goossens. Exactly the same as my mother used to make the stuff, many decades ago.

He also makes it with a stick blender in a narrow tall recipient; the one that usually comes with a stick blender for home use.

His ingredients;

- 3 whole eggs, yolks and whites

- 3 tbsp of homemade tarragonvinegar.

- 1 tbsp of mustard; he uses this one; http://www.tierenteyn.be/ It's an artisanal made mustard, comparable to Dijon-style, only a little stronger.

- 500 ml grapeseed oil

- s&p

 

His recipe;

Put everything together in the recipient and mix. Done in less than 10 seconds, thick as you will like it!

If you want to see him make it, he did it in this video where he makes "Vlaamse Stoverij", also worldwide known as "carbonades flamandes", but, with... pig cheeks. It's in dutch.

Here it is; http://www.njam.tv/recepten/vlaamse-stoverij-de-klassieker

 

BTW, I think it's unnecessary to remind that all ingredients should have the same temperature? Take everything out of the fridge some time in advance.

Maybe I could start another thread "How to pimp your homemade mayo" for the tarragonvinegar and adding all kinds of other stuff to mayo to make other delicious sauces.

post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcCracken View Post

Water OR lemon juice OR vinegar OR some other flavorful liquid that is not fat based!

 

Lecithin, the emulsifier in egg yolks, is a bi-polar molecule, one end is attracted to fats, the other to water, for it to work correctly, there has to be both available.
 



 

Bipolar mayonnaise for a bipolar planet...kinda funny, don'cha think?

joey
 

 

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

Reply

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

Reply
post #23 of 40
Thread Starter 

Chris my man, you've cured my mayo.  Last night I left in the egg white while making mayo and the results couldn't have been more different.  It made a huge difference.  My thin milky mayo was a thick tightly wound emulsion.  Don't know why that's the trick but thanks for sharing!

post #24 of 40

I think make a thick mayo when you make the mayo with hand whisking technique is at egg yolk so more egg yolk more thick too more lime juice or acid will make the mayo thick too. CMIIW. :)



 

 

 

 

 

post #25 of 40

I haven't bought mayo in years, since it's so easy to make. I use a food processor (the little one)

 

Put these ingredients in the food processor~

 

1 whole egg

2 T. white vinegar (cider vinegar gives it an off taste)

1/2 t. salt

1/2 t. dry mustard

 

Turn on FP, then slowly add:

1 cup oil (I use corn or peanut oil)

 

Once all the oil has been added, scrape down lid of FP, then replace lid and turn it on for a few more seconds.

 

If I'm using homegrown eggs, I put the mayo right in the fridge. If I'm using eggs from the store, I allow the mayo to sit at room temperature for a couple of hours before refrigerating. This gives the vinegar time to kill any bacteria that might be in the eggs.

 

This always results in mayo so thick I can turn the jar upside-down with no spillage.

 

This recipe can be doubled or tripled, but you'll need to use the big food processor if you do that. (I hate washing my big FP, which is why I usually make it in the little one)

post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by benway View Post

Chris my man, you've cured my mayo.  Last night I left in the egg white while making mayo and the results couldn't have been more different.  It made a huge difference.  My thin milky mayo was a thick tightly wound emulsion.  Don't know why that's the trick but thanks for sharing!



De nada, amigo!

 

post #27 of 40

This is a wonderful discussion. It's why I've been active here for so many years. smile.gif

 

Heck, I was going to ask which side of the sub-continental divide your water comes from. Lots of people swear by Milwaukee water. wink.gif 

Moderator Emerita, Welcome Forum
***It is better to ask forgiveness than beg permission.***
Reply
Moderator Emerita, Welcome Forum
***It is better to ask forgiveness than beg permission.***
Reply
post #28 of 40

Hellman's, slowly beat in olive oil till thick and glossy - no worry about contaminated raw egg yolks.

post #29 of 40

you're kidding right?

joey

if you're really wigged out about raw egg yolk contamination i think you could use an egg beater type product...something that is pasturized


Edited by durangojo - 9/11/11 at 9:07am

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

Reply

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

Reply
post #30 of 40

I'm not wigged about it, but many people are.  I know how to make mayonnaise from scratch, but this is the fastest way I know to make quite a good mayonnaise, and it has a minimal chance breaking the emulsion.  I usually add a bit of mustard and lemon juice to the Hellman's before adding the oil.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Food & Cooking
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Cooking Discussions › Food & Cooking › Secret to THICK mayo