I'll Admit It....I Don't Know What I'm Doing!

Welcome to Cheftalk, PinkRiver.

By and large I dislike the idea of sets---be they cookware, knives, whatever. Far too often there are items in the set that you'll never use. So they just take up space. F'instance, when my son got married they were gifted with an 11-piece cookware set. To this day---six or seven years later---they've only used five of them.

Another part of the equation: You might prefer one design for, say, skillets, but another for a 3-quart saucier. Maybe the handles are more or less comfortable. Or you prefer the rounded shape of the saucier over the straight walls of a regular pot. By buying them individually you get exactly what you want.

Although you've been using cheap stuff you should, by now, have a fair idea of the types of pots and pans you like. Were it me I'd make a list of them, and start searching for those types out of open stock. Although this might be a slightly more expensive way to go, long term it's actually less expensive.

If you must have non-stick, I would go with anodized cookware rather than the kind with a coating, as it more durable.

As to brands, any of the well-known brands should serve you well. When you start talking about that kind of price-pointing it often boils down to personal taste more than any objective criteria. Personally, I'd avoid anything made by All-Clad or its clones (i.e., Emerilware), because All-Clad doesn't stand behind it's products. And keep in mind that different lines within a particular company represent different quality levels. If X offers a 10" skillet for $30, and another similar appearing one for $55, there is a reason for it. Doesn't mean the $30 skillet isn't right for you. Just that you should understand the price differences.

Walmart has carried many fine pots and pans over the years. If they work, they work, More expense or a boutique store doesn't make a pan better necessarily.

There are two broad classes of daily cookware for the home cook, disk bottom and clad pans. In testing, differences can be small if the disk base is well made. But the disk base is much less expensive.

In pots, I have all disk bottoms from Tramontina and their rebadged brands, a number from Walmart. In sauce pans, i have a mix of disk and clad. They're pretty equal in use. In skillets, I prefer clad pans, or cast iron. In clad skillets, I have Calphalon and Tramontina, the Tramontina is again from Walmart.

I generally don't recommend sets, but Walmart on line carries a very nice set of Tramontina clad cookware.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tramontina-10-Piece-18-10-Stainless-Steel-TriPly-Clad-Cookware-Set/11072505

One last and possibly big caveat. Induction compatible. As I buy new pots and pans, they have to be induction compatible. That means the base has to hold a magnet well, whether clad or disk based.

I'm not going to recommend a Brand, I agree with Ky, I don't like sets either. I would re conned a good size Pot for boiling pasta, the pot S/B large enough to boil pasta "so the pasta swims in the water" and is not over loaded and touching. This larger pot can also be used for Pot Roasts, Stews, homemade spaghetti sauce, and so on. Egg pan, small saute pan used for over easy eggs, scrambled eggs and sauteing small amounts of food. A larger saute pan12" to 14" for all in one pan cooking like for Chicken Piccata, Fish fillets and so on, and meals for two or three people. A pot big enough for Mashed potatoes for 4 people, again this should be big enough to cook the potato's and mash in the pot having enough volume and room in the pot to whip. This size pot will come in handy for many uses. Smaller sauce pot for heating up soups and sauces. A Chicken Roasting pan large enough for a chicken and roasting potatoes and other vegetables without crowding................I use the same three pans/pots over and over again, buying a set may look good hanging in the kitchen, but you will never use 1/2  of them...................The best .............ChefBillyB

One addition to Chef Billy's comments on pasta pots.

There are many brands of these multi-piece pots that consist of the pot, itself, an insert for making pasta, and a steamer basket. They can be very handy, and are, obviously, multi-task by definition.

If you consider one of them, there's one thing to check: With some of them the insert does not reach far enough into the pot. As a result you have to use far too much water in order to have enough room for the pasta to swim in. Take a ruler or tape-measure with you, and assure that the bottom of the insert is, at most, no more than one inch higher than the bottom of the pot.

Frankly, if you're going to do serious cooking, you have to have a stock pot in the 12-16 (many recommend 8-quart, but I find them too small for serious stock-making) quart range anyway. That being the case, let it do double duty as your pasta pot as well.

I also agree with Phil: price, alone, is not a criterium. WearEver makes a line of pots and pans that will last you 2 days longer than forever. Their only negative is the handle design. But that, again, gets down to personal comfort and cooking style.

I was reluctant to say so, but being as we're discussing materials, if you confine yourself to non-stick of any kind you are significantly limiting yourself in terms of makes & models of cookware. It's not that hard to clean and maintain other materials, and, if you use them correctly, sticking and burning should not be a problem anyway. F'rinctance, if things are sticking in stainless-clad cookware it's a good bet that you're using too high a flame.

If you do a search here you'll find several discussions we've had about choosing cookware. One thing you'll discover is that most of us would kill anyone trying to take away our cast- and carbon-steel cookware. There are some tasks for which nothing else serves. Many chefs and home cooks recommend that you have one non-stick skillet for cooking eggs. I'm not one of them, but if that's your thing go for it. But the basic point is you don't need all (or, in my opinion, any) non-stick.

edited to reflect the fact that stock pots are measured in quarts, not gallons.

I hope you meant quart and not gallon.

Good thing one of us is awake, Phil. Thanks for catching that. I'll go back and edit it right now.

pinkriver:

Do you have any restaurant supply stores near you? Browse them to get some ideas. The cookware sold there is usually commercial-grade, meaning that they will last you a lifetime.

Otherwise, you could browse these online merchants:

Cookware

Wasserstrom

Central

AceMart

Food Service Warehouse [Education]

Food Service Direct

I have only bought from Cookware. I have not bought from any of the other merchants. There are others online, but I will leave it up to you to search for cookware which meets your needs.

I usually check for cookware which are: commercial-grade, triple-riveted, anodized aluminum, stainless-steel, cast-iron, copper-clad, heavy-duty.

Leave the expensive, status cookware for those dilettantes who wish to impress their friends. Buy quality products, and they should serve you well throughout your lifetime.

Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkriver 

What is this about All-Clad being the best cookware?

 Many people, me included, are quite satisfied by All-Clad and its derivitives... except for the frying pans, in which I prefer steel of cast iron.

A friend of mine has encouraged me to take a good look at stainless steel and cast iron cookware. What are your thoughts?

My first thought is that you have a good friend. Two very good materials. You might add carbon steel to that, as well. It has all the benefits of cast iron at about 2/3 the weight.

In theory, cast iron is not good when using high-acid ingredients (i.e., tomato products, vinegar, etc.). But I do it all the time, with no noticeble effrects. You don't want to let acidic foods sit in the iron for any length of time, but, otherwise, they're fine in a well-cured pot or skillet. The key words there being "well cured."

With cast iron I would start with a 10" or 12" skillet, and a fair-sized kettle (which they market as "Dutch ovens" and "French ovens). Or go with carbon steel for the skillets.

Cautionary note: Cooking with cast iron can be habit forming, and once you start you'll be building a collection. Try flea markets, garage sales, and antique malls rather than buying new.

People say "stainless," when they mean "stainless-clad." Straight stainless is the next best thing to useless for cooking. But within the clad group there are half a dozen or more brands that are high quality and which cost less than All-Clad. Just a short, non-inclusive list: Calphalon, Cuisinart, Henkels, Tramontina, etc. At that level, design becomes a major consideration, because it has to be something you are comfortable using. Almost always that boils down to handle design more than anything else, particularly with skillets.

The core of cladware is a conductive metal, in one or more layers. Usually this is aluminum. Copper is popular, but, in practical terms, adds more to the look than the usefullness. And ups the prices. Look at the differences, too, between disk-bottomed and fully clad. It sometimes makes a difference in how the piece is used.

Isn't there a Cook's Warehouse nearby? In Marietta, I believe? You might find everything you need right there, and be able to compare and contrast various brands and designs. That ability, alone, would be worth the drive for me.

What is this about All-Clad being the best cookware?

For many years, when it came to stainless-cladware, All-Clad was the only game in town. And it's American made (at least under that name). So it became the cookware choice among many professionals, and developed a rep as being best. Now, as mentioned above, there are many competitors, usually at lower prices, with the same or better quality. So you have ample choices and don't have to be locked in to just one company.

In my experience, All-Clad does not stand behind its products, which makes them worthless. If you get one with a problem, and they don't honor their warranty, what good is the warranty in the first place? Personally, I wouldn't spend a dime with a company that has such poor customer service.

The interesting thing is that you never heard anything negative about All-Clad. When I had my problems with them, starting about three years ago,  I started posting about the bad experience, and, of a sudden, people were coming out of the woodwork reporting similar problems. So much for reputations!

pinkriver:

There is an outlet mall in Calhoun, Ga., if my memory serves me correctly, and there is a Kitchen Collection store. They do not seem to sell any commercial-grade cookware. My advice is to avoid any cookware with plastic handles. I personally do not like Teflon-coated pans either. I prefer un-coated stainless-steel, hard-anodized aluminum, or cast iron cookware. I posted on this thread about cast-iron cookware. All-Clad is fine, albeit expensive.

Lodge has an outlet store in Commerce.

Are there any restaurant supply stores listed in your local telephone directory? Visit and browse them for ideas. I prefer to see and hold cookware in my hands than to buy simply based on others' opinions online. Forget the status brands, and buy the commercial brands: Vollrath, Johnson-Rose, Admiral Craft, Winco, etc. Those are some of the brands you might see in a restaurant supply store.

You could search online to see which merchants have the lowest prices.

Good luck.

I still think AllClad makes good things in America.  But they do have at least one line that comes out of China.  If you decide on AllClad BE SURE TO CHECK WHERE IT WAS MADE.  I know that their disc stockpot/multicooker is made in China.  Again, you can't pay me to touch my food to the stuff.

Add Sur La Table to the list.  They make decent stainless steel stuff.And stay away from nonstick -- the stuff peels off sooner or later, and you'll have to buy a new set.  Go for stainless, cast iron, carbon steel, or enamel over cast iron. 

PinkRiver, what you have to understand is that virtually all the non-stick you are used to is fundementally aluminum. So any other material you choose will involve a learning curve.

Primarily this will mean 1. preheating the pan, and, 2. learning to cook on lower heat. With stainless, for instance, you rarely if ever should be cooking with more than a medium flame. And you'll find that even lower than that works most of the time.

I'm not familiar with the idea of preheating and then removing the pan from the heat. If you do that it would indicate, to me, an overheated pan. But, yes, you would add room temperature oil to the heated pan. But that's a classic approach which should be used with just about any material. You'll find that by doing that the oil heats immediately, so have your ingredients ready to go.

As to cleaning, we're back to the same point. If food is sticking and burning to the pan it's because the heat was too high. But cleaning isn't any more or less difficult than any other cookware. Hot water and soap, and a non-metallic pad work best (so you don't scratch the surface, is why). Stainless does have a tendency to develop discolored spots as a result of heating. If they disturb you, use Bar Keepers Friend, which will polish them out. My advice is that you use the powder rather than the liquid. I keep a plastic scouring pad that gets used only with the BKF.

As you move away from non-stick you'll find that you do have to use more oil/butter then you are used to. Even then, if you use it for searing you will get brown stuff stuck on the bottom. This is called a fond, and is something you look for. Deglaze the pan with some wine or stock, and it forms the basis of a flavorsome sauce.

But truly, much of this sounds much more complicated than it is. Just keep the lower working temperature thing in mind and you'll be just fine.

And yes, the KY does stand for Kentucky. I'm up in Madison Cty., outside of Richmond, about 25 miles from Lexington.

Go Cats!!!

Stick with stainless steel pots and pans.  The only reason to use nonstick is to make an omelette.  If you learn to use the steel pans correctly, clean up is relatively easy with a green scrubbie.

To know when your pan is the right temperature, warm it up over a burner, then add your oil.  Let's say, a bit of olive oil.  A pan is ready to use/cook in when the oil begins to "haze" meaning it begins to very, very, very lightly smoke.  Barely visible, wisps.  Items mainly stick when a pan is cold.  But...

Another factor that can affect sticking - playing with food in the pan.  No need to keep checking the underside.  Let the pan do it's job.  It will actually "release" the item after a minute or so, when the underside has browned.  Same principle applies to the grill.

Check out brigadechef.com they can probably help with pans, tools and demos.

I'll admit some love for teflon. Not that I want a set of it or anything. i have a 10" I use for eggs and omelets.

I have a 12" teflon pan I bought specifically for a certain style of skillet cooking. This is a sort of stovetop assembled casserole instead of the classic baked version. A 12" skillet is just a tad smaller than a 9x13 casserole pan. So a stovetop lasagna for example. It's faster, less mess and hassle, and clean up is easy too. I love it for camping trips especially where stove top cooking is the norm.

Cook's Illustrated has a skillet cookbook, a Cover and Bake Cookbook and their Cook's Country home-style food often pulls this stunt as well. Just this weekend, i watched them do a skillet chicken parmigiana. It broke from the classic structure, but it was much simpler and faster. It's very useful to the home or camp cook. 

Yes, I've done some of the recipes in cast iron or stainless, but the release is important for many of the dishes and the tomato cooking is not ideal for cast iron.

I have never had problems with glass lids. Yeah, I've read all the criticisms (hard to clean, you can't see through them while cooking, can't put them in a high-heat oven, etc.) and I think they're all theorectical. None of them has ever been a problem for me. So, if that's your preference, go for it! You won't be unhappy.

I'm finding it hard to believe that Macy's was the best deal. In my experience they suffer from two cookware problems; one being that they don't handle open stock pieces, and, second, they're among the high priced spreads.

You'd be hard pressed to find cast iron better than Lodge. One cautionary note: The pre-seasoned stuff is about equal to the first seasoning you'd do with raw iron. That is to say, it's not really a deep cure. So, for a while at least, confine it to frying foods until you build up a nice, rich, color. Eventually it will be black, and that's the best. Don't forget to preheat the cast iron before cooking in it. Either let it sit on a very low flame or actually put it in the oven.

I'd go with the 12" rather than the 10" if you're only going to have one (snicker, chortle, harrumph). as you'll find it more useful overall.

I never use teflon-coated pans, so can offer no comments pro or con. But, despite the oft given advice about their usefullness for cooking eggs, I don't have any trouble cooking them in stainless. And, the fact is, a well cured cast iron skillet is the most non-stick surface you'll ever achieve.

A lot of the clad-ware needed reconfiguring for induction. The standard 18/10 steel isn't magnetic enough and certainly not the aluminum layers. i wouldn't think they'd have gone thinner for compatibility, but they'd need a different steel for at least one layer.

Forget sets, start in a restaurant supply store, then go to walmart. Go back to restaurant supply store for anything that wasn't good enough at walmart. I pick up each piece, handle it, and imagine what I'll use it for. If I have to stick it in the oven to finish or braise then it needs metal handles. Removeable rubber grips are popular, but I think they're a pain and wouldn't have one. Look at the rivets holding the handle on, are they little dabs of solder or a big solid rivet? Look at the bottom and imagine it sitting on your burner with food inside. Is it thick enough to distrbute heat? You'll need non-metallic (ceramic coated) equipment for some foods, steel is fine for others. The brand "Calphalon" is pretty amazing stuff. They say it's almost indestructable but my teenage son and brother managed to destroy my 8" saute. You wouldn't believe the way it distributes heat. They sell another brand of high-tech non-stick cookware that's a lot more expensive than calphalon but I've never tried it.

I recently bought a big stainless slope-sided saute with a heavy clad bottom at wal-mart and it's awesome. It's replaced all others (near it in size) for almost everything. Can't beat a large ceramic coated cast-iron pot either. With sets you get one material or another, by buying individual pieces you get exactly what you need for your style of cooking. Some of their ceramic coated "Paula Deen" brand looked pretty good too.

Magnetic properties are essential if you're going to use it on an induction top. You might not need it now, but a lifetime will hopefully last awhile, and who knows what we'll be using 10 years from now.

Go watch some videos on Youtube with Japanese cooking lessons. It's very interesting to see what they use, and will provide a "counter-point" to our cultures conventional wisdom. They get by with very meager apparatus, and a good selection of knives, sticks, string, and paper.

One more caveat, I was in my local mega-restaurant supply store yesterday and apparently the economy has hurt them. They had no calphalon or that otehr expensive brand, and their non -stick looked like junk to me. Their only skillets were standard aluminum restaurant grade - not good for home kitchens (IMO), So, just because it's sold as commerical quality you still need to pick it up and look at it, and compare it to your college days kitchen set.

Think about your range and oven, counterspace, overheads, racks, and layout when deciding. I can handle a fully loaded 5-qt cast iron skillet with one hand easier than some people can handle it with two. I have a sister-in-law that can't lift an empty 5qt w/ one hand. She'd rather be poked in the eye w/ a sharp stick than to cook w/ cast iron cookware, and she has a ceramic cooktop, which could be damaged with heavy pots. If you're going to hang it from a hook it needs a hole in the handle big enough for your hooks. Those cheapo college-days pans can be fished from the back of a cabinet w/out too much difficulty, but you don't want to stack (and damage) ceramic coated. It's also too heavy to drag out of a cabinet while bent over.

Sorry for the second note, and you may have already bought them, but I wanted to help. These are all aggravations I've experienced and witnessed. They say you shouldn't use thin cookware, but if speed and lightness is ismportant, and you're never goiong to heat it past a low simmer, then why not? Who needs even heat distribution when all you want is to steam water to heat the bottom of a bain marie? A mixing bowl and the cheapest dollar-store completely destroyed non-stick pot will make a bechamel or melt chocolate just as well as the $100 pot. :) Keep it real . . .

Michael Colameco on Food Talk, talked about cast-iron pans.

A partial list of online merchants were hyper-linked in this thread.

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