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what are the differences between beef bone stock with veal bone stock?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

sorry for making a stupid thread, i'm new in culinary world and just start to study in culinary school.

i'm just curious about the differences between beef bone stock with veal bone stock.

because so far i  ask almost all my teachers they said, if both of them actually didn't have any big differences especially in taste (since they're tasteless) except their flavor and the body.

and i'm speaking about the stock without seasoning.

what's the significant differences between both of them?

professional chef said if veal bone is the best for making stock.

but for the cost people will choose beef bone over veal bone...

and does the kind of beef/veal i mean like if we use beef bone from japan it'll have differences with beef bone from australia?

what does the most affecting factor in making bone stock?

i appreciate all your answer.. thanks before :)

post #2 of 14

Welcome to Cheftalk Littlebones,

 

I just saw it is your first post, sorry I had to come back and edit.  There is no such thing as a stupid thread. We are all learning, I am learning , in fact , there is no end to discovering something new.

 

This is a wonderful site , Chefs and Cooks from all over coming together to share their thoughts and knowledge. ....I will give my two cents and hope others will jump in.....all the best to you.

 

The cost of veal bones these days is somewhat higher .Some restaurants will opt for beef stock.

The veal bones have so much gelatin in them that it adds a silky, velvety texture to the stock, the flavor is not as beefy either, more subtle. In effect it comes across as richer, and has a sheen.

There are things that can be done to a beef stock to get the same effect but the natural gelatin in veal makes the difference.

 

 

 


Edited by petalsandcoco - 4/21/11 at 7:22am

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(163 photos)
Wine and Cheese
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Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(163 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply
post #3 of 14

I think Petals did a great job of answering your question... and the word "velvety" is key there.  I may be reiterating, so I don't mean to sound redundant in response, but as I read your post, Littlebones, I knew I would post this reply:  Veal stock has a much lighter (and "cleaner") flavor than beef stock and it's not as overpowering as beef stock can be.  Veal stock even smells "smooth" when you're reducing it... you'll know what I mean when I say this as you become familiar with the differences in smell as each stock cooks.  Additionally, veal stock can give you that neutral flavor for use in numerous applications, whereas beef stock cannot substitute for anything else other than what it is.  Also... Beef bones need to be roasted before being used to make stock, veal bones do not.  In fact, for a cleaner looking and brighter/lighter stock, don't roast the veal bones beforehand.  This will give you a less complex flavor than a stock made with roasted bones.  Unless of course, you're looking for that robust roasted flavor to mask a delicate food product, then go ahead and roast them before hand!

     tongue.gif

I hope this helps!

post #4 of 14

We used to throw bones out now veal bones are $1.50 Lb  Robbery   You can mix 1/2 veal  1/2 beef if you like.  Usually veal stock is used for a specific purpose and beef stock for a specific purpose. Both if made correctly are good. They can be white or brownish in color.Roasting of the bones and mirepoix determine this.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #5 of 14

Veal stock is much more neutral than beef stock and generally has more gelatin which gives it more body and more suited for demi-glace.

post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 

thanks for the warm greeting petal, and to scarlet thanks for the farther information. sorry for my broken english :D

anyway there are some questions across my mind when i read all of your answers.

can i get the 'taste' if i cook the bone stock longer? (without seasonings and less meat or no meat stick with the bone at all)

could acids help to get the 'taste'?

which is the best bone for making stock, knuckle bone from hip or leg, ribs or another part.

and as what i read in chefedb's answer, could it be possible to get the velvety texture and strong beef flavor at the same time if i combine beef and veal bone?

also, does the tools that we use for making stock affect the result?

because i read somewhere about cooking stock with pressure cooker than stock-pot.

thanks agaaain :D

post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlebones View Post

could it be possible to get the velvety texture and strong beef flavor at the same time if i combine beef and veal bone?


It's very possible. I've done it and loved the result, and tons of restaurants do it. Veal gives body to your stock, beef gives it a stronger meaty flavor. 

post #8 of 14

In beef  Shin bones are best cut in ring pieces if possible .Veal bones are smaller so you dont have to cut up as much.  I think 1/2 and 1/2  will give you the best of both worlds.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Reply
post #9 of 14

littlebones i pay .44 cents a pound for beef knuckle marrow bones frozen and do a sixty pound batch of stock on a stove top and let it roll for three nights at 190 degrees. To that i add  a can of roasted tomato paste a box of burgundy, standard mirepoix,  tomatoes etc....,and 15 gallons of cold water. After three days i  strain it and the amount  varies but i get about 12 -15 gallons of a decent stock. Mainly i use this for soup base. The other day i reduced it all down to 2 1/2 gallons of liquid in the tilt skillet and chilled it over night and the result was 2 1/2 gallons of beef glace. I honestly could not tell the much difference between the beef reduction and the veal reduction that  i do in the same manner. Veal knuckle bones are going for 1.80 a pound now so there you can save money also by using the beef.

 

Also if your just making a soup stock with beef marrow bones and you want to let it go only for one night you will have to split the bones for full goodness extraction. And if you are fortunate to have a band saw that helps, but if you do not you can roast the bones cool them them then split open or crack them with a real meat cleaver. For me they are easier to split after roasting but be sure to wear safety goggles please!!!!

 

The most affecting flavor enhancer in my stock is copious amounts of red wine and roasted tomato paste and a slow carmelization of a honey -water mixture that i sometimes brush on the bones [before roasting] also i roast the mirepoix seperately on sheet trays onions on one tray carrots on another ans so on.

 

 

just another perspective

post #10 of 14

No expert here, but as an aside to this thread - why not trying to substutue chicken bones & meat for the veal?  It is a very lighter stock than the beef, very tasty, so could balance out the heaviness of the beef stock, and avoid the higher cost of the veal.  May be worth an experiment :)

 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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 Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy.
Robert A. Heinlein

 
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post #11 of 14

Mixing veal bones and beef bones shouldn't be about the added body.  That extra body is just gelatin, and you can always add that.  IMO mixing beef and veal bones is the worst of both worlds.  You get the flavor of beef with the price of veal.  Add gelatin to your beef stock or go all veal IMO.

post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by benway View Post

Mixing veal bones and beef bones shouldn't be about the added body.  That extra body is just gelatin, and you can always add that.  IMO mixing beef and veal bones is the worst of both worlds.  You get the flavor of beef with the price of veal.  Add gelatin to your beef stock or go all veal IMO.



Not if it is done in correct ratio and handled correctly.IMO

 

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Reply

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Reply
post #13 of 14

I think "neutral" was the best description I saw in here. When I started my culinary experimentations, chicken stock was one of the first thing I mastered. I then made veal stock expecting something that tasted like... veal meat. Chicken bones will lend plenty of flavor on their own (even though I use lots of drums also), but veal bones not so much. But with a nice dark color, nice texture from the gelatin rich bones, it will beat vegetable stock to the curb any day, and will work with just about everything.

 

I disagree with someone saying veal bones are expensive.  I can get a gigantic bag of veal bones from my favorite butcher far cheaper than just one piece of oxtail from the big name supermarkets. (I think $10 for 4 lbs vs $8 for one 1 lb oxtail)  Last Christmas I used maybe $2 worth of veal bones to make a stock that deglazed my roasting pan for prime rib, and trust me it tasted plenty beefy. So as far as I'm concerned, it's not only way more cost effective than beef bone stock, and any flavor can be added to it later, if it's "too neutral" to your liking.

 

I am also not too shy to put a veal bone in my chicken stock.

 

I also read once someone say "veal stock makes your house smell like a home, and beef stock makes your house smell like farts.."


Edited by pcieluck - 4/26/11 at 2:17am
post #14 of 14

Where I am from butchers give away veal bones for free to good customers. I order at least $2K in meat from my butcher weekly and he gladly throws in 50lbs of veal bones at no extra cost????

 

It's not for nothing veal stock, especially veal reduction is known as liquid gold in the industry. There is no better base for dark sauces IMO.

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