What cant go in vegetable stock?

It's a stock not a garbage can. If you put shrimp shells in it , it isn't a vege stock. Try celery, onion, carrot, garlic, parsnips ;fresh herbs. a small amount of cabbage would be ok, but keep in mind cabbage is very strong and overpowering.

Don't put potato peels in it, it will make it murky.  Tomatoes are great in stock.

Sweet potatoes won't do much for you.  Avoid carrot tops unless you're into bitter stock.

Kevin, I must be operating a garbage pan rather than a stockpot, cuz that's exactly how I make vegetable stock---by saving peels and scraps in the freezer until there's enough to work with.

I also segregate them for different purposes. For instance, all the mushroom scraps are kept together to make mushroom stock. Broccoli (and asparagus) segregated to serve as a soup base. Etc.

With "cabbage" think all the cole crops. That includes all the cabbages, Brussels sprouts, collards, etc. They tend to overpower, and often turn bitter as well. Likewise avoid bitter greens.

Basically, anything that has a strong, distinctive flavor should be looked on with suspicion. Asparagus, for instance, makes a great soup. But I wouldn't put it in a mix destined for general stock making.

Carrots and parsnips are ok, but watch their proportionate quantity because too much of them can make the stock overly sweet.

BTW, after straining the stock, the solids can still go in the compost pile.

Not a garbage can....but what must go goes into my stock...

Some thing sjust make perfume, and not stock though. For that reason, out of personal preference, I never add rosemary or fennel to any of my stocks.

Leftover squash peels, mahi skins, potato shins, etc this is what I define as garbage can items, It has nothing to do with freezing other good things because I do that also. Reminds me one time I took a class into a NYC hotel we visited every station. Finally to the Potage Chefs area where there were 4 steam kettles going with different stocks. His helper proceeded to mix the stocks with a  S/S paddle  to show the students, and low and behold up came a sneaker on the end of the paddle. Talk about being embarrased !!

I try not to throw almost antyhing out, ends from onions and bell peppers, mushrooms leftover herbs always any leftover meat bones even after cooked. I always use potato, mirepoix, parsley peppercorns bay leaf and garlic cloves

Each to their own.

Do not turn your stock pot into a garbage can. I've worked in hotels where cooks found adding 'garbage' to stocks were forced to take 5 days off without pay.

If it's a veg stock you need then stick to aromatics and herbs. Potatoes are a no as is anything else starchy. As in any stock you need to seek out balance and flavour. Depending on what you need the stock for you can flavour it with whatever you see fit to: if it's going to be used for a Thai soup then use ginger, lemongrass, orange peel, etc. Otherwise keep the stock neutral so that nothing overpowers or is too assertive.

Ken

http://www.chopchop.ca

Why would you want to avoid potatoes or something starchy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhran1965 

Potatoes are a no as is anything else starchy. As in any stock you need to seek out balance and flavour.

Ken

http://www.chopchop.ca

Theoretically, Mike, potatoes et als will make the stock cloudy.

I put a peeled waxy potato in my chicken stock.  It does not make a cloudy stock for me but then again I never boil my stock nor do I stir it.  An old wives tale tells me that a potato in chicken stock helps soak up some of that off smell that chicken sometimes gives off.  But in practical terms my husband loves that potato as his treat.

I agree with Chef EdB but can understand the desire to be eco-conscious.  Leave potato skins/ carrot tops/ onion ends/ in the compost.  You want to use the best ingredients you can through the entire cooking process.  An inferior stock will make an inferior meal.

CHEF HOFF

   You said it all     Plus    Onion skins will make it yellowish brown, celery tops bitter , potato peels muddled unclear color and dirt.  Again folks this is not a garbage can.  There is a point where economics must be overruled for the sake of quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koukouvagia 

I put a peeled waxy potato in my chicken stock.  It does not make a cloudy stock for me but then again I never boil my stock nor do I stir it.  An old wives tale tells me that a potato in chicken stock helps soak up some of that off smell that chicken sometimes gives off.  But in practical terms my husband loves that potato as his treat.

I don't know Kouk.. if your chicken gives any kind of "off smell" then it's not good fresh chicken, I wouldn't eat it or use it for stock. And if a potato was really absorbing an "off smell" then who'd want to eat that potato anyway?

If the chicken is fresh it should not have any off smell. Then I would be concerned that the potato will absorb a lot of the flavor in your stock, which as a result will not be as flavorful as if you'd cooked it without potato in the first place. Same if you'd cook pasta or rice in your stock, they would absorb the stock's flavor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by French Fries 

I don't know Kouk.. if your chicken gives any kind of "off smell" then it's not good fresh chicken, I wouldn't eat it or use it for stock. And if a potato was really absorbing an "off smell" then who'd want to eat that potato anyway?

 

If the chicken is fresh it should not have any off smell. Then I would be concerned that the potato will absorb a lot of the flavor in your stock, which as a result will not be as flavorful as if you'd cooked it without potato in the first place. Same if you'd cook pasta or rice in your stock, they would absorb the stock's flavor.

 

Oh chicken has a smell.  I've grown up slaughtering fresh chickens and cooking them fresh, they have a smell.  It's a trademark of chicken.  Just like lamb has a smell regardless of freshness, it has a gameyness.  I'm not such a fan of the chicken smell.  You can't convince me that chicken does not have a certain smell. 

As for the potato absorbing that smell, I already said it was an old wive's tale, not that I buy into it.  I only said that my husband likes to eat potato boiled in the stock.  Pasta or rice is a common ingredient in soup so I don't know what you're getting at.
 

Sneaker Stock? Hmmm? now that's a fungus I have never used! Meybe your onto something... or NOT...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koukouvagia 

Oh chicken has a smell.  I've grown up slaughtering fresh chickens and cooking them fresh, they have a smell.  It's a trademark of chicken.  Just like lamb has a smell regardless of freshness, it has a gameyness.  I'm not such a fan of the chicken smell.  You can't convince me that chicken does not have a certain smell. 

A smell, yes, the smell of raw chicken - but an "off smell"? To me "off" describes the smell of something decaying, rotting or otherwise not smelling the way it should when it's fresh. 

I know you're not buying into it, but I do think potato absorb flavors, much like rice or pasta (albeit to a lesser extent), and therefore not a good idea to cook inside your stock. If the potato tastes like the stock, then that's flavor that's no longer in the stock. When you cook pasta or rice in soup, that pasta or rice also absorbs some of the flavor in the liquid, but soup is not stock, and the goals are not the same.... But I guess it probably doesn't matter that much. If your husband likes to eat that potato and that has become your own personal tradition, then why not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefedb 

Finally to the Potage Chefs area where there were 4 steam kettles going with different stocks. His helper proceeded to mix the stocks with a  S/S paddle  to show the students, and low and behold up came a sneaker on the end of the paddle. Talk about being embarrased !!

Anybody old enough to remember the Beatles movie Help, where they go into the kitchen of an indian restaurant and there are a pair of glasses in the soup and then they pull out a season ticket to something - one of them says "ah, a season ticket!  I LIKE a lot of seasoning in my soup"  - well, if i had that ring i could, dare I say it, rule the world!

But how could a sneaker end up in the soup - come on, it must have been planted as a joke, no? 

Chicken does smell, but I have found that you can make the same ingredients smell better or worse. Roast (doesn't have to be long as you only need to heat up the skin and fat layer) the chicken de-glaze and into the stock...no smell. Simple rule Don't bake don't boil, If you get boiling you will get smell.

Skins generally make things bitter, but potato skin not only makes things bitter and cloudy it also adds an earthy flavour to the stock....it's not an earthy flavour like truffle either....Yuk. If you guys leave plenty of flesh on the skins then I suppose it might be OK, so it's what ever rocks your boat. 

Carrots (like lots of vegies)....if they cook to hot for too long they go bitter and awful so carrot is added when the simmer has started. Celery leaves and fresh herbs not in until the heat is turned off and lid is on. 

Stocks, like any other recipe are the end result of the ingredients put into it. Obviously there are some other factors such as timing and technique but to keep things simple, if you put inferior products into a stock then the stock will become inferior. I've worked with alot of "shoemakers" in my time and guess what, they are still shoemakers.

Stocks, like any other recipe are the end result of the ingredients put into it.

Absolutely true, Deacon. Implied by your comment, however, is something that permeates this thread----that using scraps from the same vegetables you would use starting from scratch, is using inferior ingredients. I don't buy it!

Just a couple of examples:

When making vegetable stock from scratch, I include whole onions, halved or quartered depending on size. How is the skin and first layer or two of an onion (ya know, the stuff you peel away) any different than that?

Carrots are an integral part of stock. Whole carrots when starting from scratch, cut in pieces. This is different from carrot peels how?

You can make a mushroom stock with whole fresh mushrooms. But do you really think that saving the stems and skins and using them results in a different flavor? An inferior product?

Seems to me that if what I do is trashcan stock one would have to say the same about my chicken stock. After all, I save the backs, and wing tips, and carcases in the freezer until I have enough to fill my stockpot. To me, that's no different than saving onion peelings. So I reckon I'm making an inferior chicken stock too.

Ah, well.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer 
Implied by your comment, however, is something that permeates this thread----that using scraps from the same vegetables you would use starting from scratch, is using inferior ingredients. I don't buy it!

KYH, you make a good point, and I'm sure this is all true in a busy professional kitchen where there are lots of daily fresh scraps that can be used to make the daily batch of stock. But at home, that often means keeping a zip lock bag in the freezer and adding to it as you go, saving it over the course of several weeks or months until ready to make stock.

So in the end, the difference is not between whole mushroom and mushroom stems & peels, it's between FRESH whole mushroom and FROZEN scraps.

Would I make the difference between a stock made of fresh whole vegetables vs one made of fresh vegetable scraps? Probably not. But personally, I make a difference between a stock made from fresh whole vegetables and one made from frozen scraps.

Why is that, FF?

Saving them in zipper bags is precisely what I do (and what the OP was asking about). And I defy you to tell any difference between stock made with those and stock made starting with fresh veggies.

It's not like you're going to eat the veggies directly, in which case there's a definate quality difference. What you're doing is extracting flavers into a liquid, and those flavors do not disappear just because their carrier was frozen.

Are you telling me you would not use chicken backs that had been frozen?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer 

Stocks, like any other recipe are the end result of the ingredients put into it.

 

Absolutely true, Deacon. Implied by your comment, however, is something that permeates this thread----that using scraps from the same vegetables you would use starting from scratch, is using inferior ingredients. I don't buy it!

 

Just a couple of examples:

 

When making vegetable stock from scratch, I include whole onions, halved or quartered depending on size. How is the skin and first layer or two of an onion (ya know, the stuff you peel away) any different than that?

 

Carrots are an integral part of stock. Whole carrots when starting from scratch, cut in pieces. This is different from carrot peels how?

 

You can make a mushroom stock with whole fresh mushrooms. But do you really think that saving the stems and skins and using them results in a different flavor? An inferior product?

 

Seems to me that if what I do is trashcan stock one would have to say the same about my chicken stock. After all, I save the backs, and wing tips, and carcases in the freezer until I have enough to fill my stockpot. To me, that's no different than saving onion peelings. So I reckon I'm making an inferior chicken stock too.

 

Ah, well.....

 

 

You raise some good points and what you say makes perfect sense but your implication of what I mean is partial. The stem of onions, carrots and celery in particular are garbage and therefore, in my opinion, should not go in stock. The very outer layer of the onion is the protective layer which comes in contact with impurities such as dirt and chemicals, it protects all inside layers of the onion. The carrots I peel for the same reason and the celery leaves give a bitter and undesirable flavor.

Think about it this way, do you eat a carrot without it being peeled? Do you eat the shell of the onion, put it on a burger? And do you eat celery leaves? All I'm saying is, I don't use ingredients I wouldn't eat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer 

Why is that, FF?

 

Saving them in zipper bags is precisely what I do (and what the OP was asking about). And I defy you to tell any difference between stock made with those and stock made starting with fresh veggies.

 

It's not like you're going to eat the veggies directly, in which case there's a definate quality difference. What you're doing is extracting flavers into a liquid, and those flavors do not disappear just because their carrier was frozen.

 

Are you telling me you would not use chicken backs that had been frozen?

You raise another good point. I do make stock from chicken bones, back, wings etc... that I froze as I buy and fabricate chickens. Why? Because it's convenient and I hate to throw it away. Do I taste the difference between that stock made from frozen chicken vs one I make only from fresh chicken? You betcha I do.

So to answer your question "Why is that"? I would answer: for flavor. Yes, I do make the difference between a stock where the veggies were frozen vs one where the veggies were fresh. I disagree that "flavors do not disappear just because their carrier was frozen". Well... I mean of course, you're right, the flavors don't just "disappear", but they are transformed. Flavors are completely different when a product has been frozen. In fact I gave away my microwave years ago, and pretty much only use my freezer for ice cubes, ice cream, chicken bones, and chicken stock.

BTW you may be curious to know how I know I can taste the difference? Because I've made many, many blind taste tests on chicken, veal and beef stocks.