Duck Confit - Page 2

Many hams have nitrite you are right . And as far as sausage Frankfurters are classified sausage in Germany and Europe.

Someday,

 

I guess I owe you an apology.  I had read the entire thread including your previous posts and was somewhat surprised by the one to which I gave the oy.  Although it didn't mention a nitrite and/or nitrate cure, neither did it exclude it -- and the post seemed to me to incorporate it by context.  Thanks for straightening me out.

 

BDL

Is it okay to reuse duck fat for the next confit?  I thought it's similar with frying oil, you don't use it once, thanks Chief.

 

 

 

I appreciate that. No harm done. 

 

Jowocook,

 

As far as re-using the fat, it's absolutely OK to do it. You wouldn't want to use the same fat for years and years, for example, but getting 2-3-4 batches of confit out of the same fat is common. Duck fat is LESS prone to rancidity than some other types of fat, and as long as it is kept clean (strained carefully) and refrigerated or frozen it should last a while. Make sure that you check the fat for signs of mold (very unlikely) and rancidity. You should know its rancid by off odors and taste. If it smells and tastes bad, start fresh. And if there is any doubt as to the safeness of the fat, throw it out and start new. 

 

At some point, as well, the fat it likely to become too salty to reuse. This may happen before the fat is technically "bad." There isn't really anything, AFAIK, that can be done about this. 

 

Just FYI, I don't know if I would utilize a hybrid fat mix again--like if I used olive oil and duck fat combined for confit (like the OP). Those types of oils are much more prone to rancidity and I don't know if I could vouch for the safety of something like that. It's likely it would be OK, but like I said, I have no personal experience with it. 
 

 

It depends on the sizes and shapes of your poaching and storage pan(s), the volume of duck legs you're conserving; and perhaps a little on whether you're willing to chop of the ends of the legs to get them fully submerged.

 

It's easier to figure volume than weight.  Duckfat is only slightly less dense than water, so if your seller only supplies by weight you can roughly estimate that a pound's a pint, and so on.  You'll probably need something like 1-1/2 qts for four legs -- depending on your dish.  In SoCal, duck fat runs around $15 per 1/2 gallon and $25+ per gallon, and those weigh just under 4lbs and around 7-1/2lbs respectively.

 

BDL 

Edited by boar_d_laze - 8/18/11 at 9:43am

Did the skin fall off before you removed it from the fat? The only way to prevent that is to be really gentle. You could also try warming the fat up a bit first, so that its not so hard and you can see / get to the duck legs easier. 

 

As far as the sticking, there are possibly a couple of issues. You probably do want a little oil or duck fat in the pan before you set the duck in. Same as you would if you are sauteing any other protein. The duck legs will likely be coated in a film of fat when you remove them from storage, but it might not be enough. And you want to start with a hot pan, with hot fat. 

 

I would pre-heat your pan on the stove on like medium for a few minutes (You want a hot pan, not not a FLAMING hot pan, you don't want to burn the duck right away, or ever). Add the oil, wait another 30 seconds or so, then add the duck (carefully). Let cook for about a minute on the stove, then transfer to an oven...say about 350 degrees. Do not flip the duck at this point, you want to put it in the oven skin side down. Let cook in the oven until heated through...maybe, ten minutes. Maybe check on it once halfway through to make sure that the skin is getting crisp and you aren't burning the skin or anything. You may also want to pour off some of the fat in the pan if it is building up. 

 

Also, if the skin falls off, you can still use it. Crisp it up in a pan or in the oven, and serve over or on the side of the duck. Duck confit cracklins are delicious. 

Seared? Seared?! What searing? What hot pan?

350F oven?! Gevaldt! You're going to cook it in a medium oven, yet? What about the two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun?

Oh. The humanity,
BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze - 8/23/11 at 9:45am

You know, for someone who is seemingly very opinionated you don't seem to have a good grasp on what is going on. 

 

We are talking about, after the confit is cooked, re-heating the duck legs (you know, for a salad, or whatever) in a hot pan to crisp up the skin and warm through. Very normal thing to do. 

 

If you don't have anything to contribute, please don't post these useless things. All it is succeeding in doing is annoying me. 

I'm not sure either. It seems that BDL has some sort of problem with the advice I gave you, which I can only chalk up to his/her seeming lack of comprehension. Ignore BDL on this one, he/she has given you some good advice previously in this thread, but rest assured, crisping up the skin in a pan and warming the confit through in the oven are very valid techniques, and quite common. I don't know what BDL was trying to get at.

 

I can only assume that he/she thinks that I am advising you to sear the duck and cook in a 350 degree oven to make confit. Which of course is absurd, as we are talking about how to treat the confit after it is cooked. 

 

As far as the "BigMac" reference, it's lost on me too. 

Ya think?
 

 

There are right ways and wrong ways to do things. And in between, there are a variety of not very good ways.

Traditionally duck confit was reheated very gently as in a cassoulet; or picked off the bone and served at room temperature, as in a salad.

Duck skin which has undergone the confit process is flabby. There's very little you can do to crisp it up. Shallow frying -- the technical term for what Someday described -- is marginally useful. Flash, deep frying is somewhat better, and so is a torch. But, because it was already cooked there's only so far you can take it.

Searing... From a purely technical standpoint I'm not sure you can sear something which is already cooked through. In any case, you cannot get a meaningful Maillard reaction going -- which is, after all, the point of searing.

Heating in a 350F oven... Sorry. No. You just went through two and a half hours to poach the duck low and slow so it will be tender. What do you think will happen if you heat it through at high heat? Tough and dry. Tough and dry will be the result if the duck is heated through by any too-hot method. The different sorts of frying and the torch -- won't do nearly as much harm as long as you're only heating the surface. But as I said above, there are limits to how far you can go to give the skin from a confit much texture.


Because smoking is also low and slow, the skin from smoked poultry is similar to that which was confited. The skin of this chicken, which was smoked at around 250F, was light brown and too pliable when the chicken came out. I used a torch to give it some color and bring it back. You can see how the skin tightened so much it ripped in several places, but -- while the skin was palatable -- it still wasn't what you'd call crisp.

The skin on that particular chicken was highly seasoned, and the seasoning was intended as an integral part of the dish. But the ducks one confits are not seasoned in the same way as traditional confit is intended to take on the flavors of the dish to which it contributes. From a flavor and seasoning standpoint, the skin is "nothing special." And -- not to belabor the point -- it's very difficult to make it so.

Although I don't have any duck pictures handy, I don't know how many confit of ducks I've done over the years, certainly more than a hundred; and I've presented them in dozens of ways. Take it for what it's worth.

BDL

Wow. Just wow. So you're of the opinion that duck confit can only be served in one of two ways: Either picked and served at room temp or stewed in a cassoulet. There couldn't possibly be another way that would fall between a traditional cassoulet or salad, and a big mac. Got it...sorry to go against the years of cassoulet and duck picking experience you have. 

 

For the record, I didn't recommend shallow frying. Shallow frying is a method that employs both a lot of oil or fat (halfway up the sides of the items being cooked) and high heat. Neither of which I recommended. I recommended a small film of oil and fat, moderate heat, and warming through in the oven. Which, if you are trying to serve a whole leg of duck confit, is a PERFECTLY valid method for doing so. One I've employed myself, actually, both at home and professionally. Of course it will be dry and stringy, but only if you overcook it. Just because the duck is in the oven for a few minutes doesn't automatically mean it will be overcooked...care must be taken to prevent it. If you get it warm but don't overcook it, it will be great. 

 

And hey, the skin will get crisp. It's not as crisp as say, peking duck or a perfectly roasted chicken, (it's not a cracklin) but it definitely has a positive effect on both the texture and taste. Feel free to google search "crisp duck confit" if you don't believe me. 

 

The OP used the phrase "sear" as a way to describe the method he/she was trying to employ...I'm assuming that Pcieluck is not a professional chef, and shouldn't be held to some imaginary higher standard of kitchen parlance that you seem to be focused on. Using the word "sear" to describe the method Pcieluck was employing, while probably not technically correct in a dictionary definition sort of way, is common enough lingo to describe the method that I was able to ascertain what he was saying. 

 

It's probably more productive to actually try and help the OP than to take issue with the diction...especially if the post was clear enough originally to garner the intention. The question wasn't "Now what do I do with my confit" or "How to make a great cassoulet," he was asking advice on a specific recipe and how to improve the results. Aside from the fact that you've only seemingly ever used duck confit at room temp in salads or in cassoulet, I'd love to see what your solution would be to heating up a whole leg. 

 

You're obviously very knowledgeable and have made great contributions in many threads, but I'm a little bummed out by this. If snark and a picture of a smoked chicken (looks delicious by the way) is all you are going to bring to the table, you obviously have nothing else to contribute to this thread. Now I'm off to go eat a BigMac.

 

 

Poser. The real chefs eat at Carl's Jr. I'm gonna get the Six Dollar TM Duck Confit Burger.

 

We also have brightly lit and clean In-n-Outs and Tommies were we can get decent burgers without getting mugged for our kidneys.

someday,

just curious chef, just why are you so angry?...it's just a duck..

joey

Sorry, I was just trying to lighten the mood. I took it for granted that my tone came across as joking.

My last post was a direct response to BDL's post #42. I also wouldn't say I'm angry, I got a little worked up by the notion that, apparently, it's completely useless to try and use duck confit for anything other than traditional cassoulet or serving picked over a salad. It seems doing so results in something that should be compared to a BigMac. 

 

I have the opinion that there are many, many valid methods for just about any style and type of cooking one wants to do. Certainly there are some guidelines that are best followed for many things, but there are also many different ways to achieve goals. If I ask my grandmother and your grandmother, for example, to make a tomato sauce, they both might go about it in very different ways, for a number of reasons (how they learned, local ingredients, familial food traditions, etc etc). Is one method more "correct" than the other? Most likely, no. And both may be equally delicious, if different. 

 

I just think the attitude of "the one correct way" to do things just stinks. I, as a chef, love to learn new things and new methods for cooking. It's how we grow and learn and evolve on a consistent basis. It's why we visit sites like this...to give each other new ideas, inspiration, and insights. 

 

And I like good debate and hearing other chef's ideas. It's up to me whether I want to take advice or leave it. I just don't like being, even in a roundabout way, told that valid methods are wrong because there is a "right way to do things." 

 

And I especially don't appreciate being told that I recommended shallow frying for reheating the confit, as that is blatantly wrong and speaks to BDL's seeming inability to actually read what I wrote, as happened earlier in this thread as well.

 

Pcieluck, none of my post was directed at you. I'm sorry if you thought otherwise--like I said earlier, the "rant" I posted was meant as a direct response to BDL. Apologies again.  

don't take it to heart when your thread meanders off topic..it tends to happen a lot around here when more than 2 people are engaged in a dialogue. i find it rather interesting myself to see where some threads end up...just not in this case....my thinking about posting is that once a question is out there, then the thread is not really yours anymore....it's everyone's to share in... in the end did you get what you wanted? your questions answered? ...good

joey
 

 

Too bad about the wings. Your roomie's a jerk.

A lot of what I was saying throughout this thread went to the proposition that a confit of duck is a relatively specific thing and if you get far enough away from the ingredients and methods you no longer have confit of duck. The envelope should be stretched, and I applaud your adventurous spirit.

For the very little it's worth, I never said cassoulet and salad were the only proper uses for confit. I said either gentle re-heating (as in cassoulet (but not only in cassoulet) and allowing to come to room temp as in salad (but not only in salad) were the best ways to avoid toughening the meat. My use of the terms "as in" should have been sufficient to indicate that the methods were not exclusive to any particular dish.

I forgot to mention another "traditional" confit presentation, which involves heating freshly confited duck in a relatively dry, relatively hot skillet in order to crisp the skin. Note that the duck is already hot and the protein strands relaxed, before it hits the pan. Michael Symon does this, and so do a lot of other people.

Deep-frying is always attractive -- as long as you start with a room temp or already warm duck. But you do want to be very careful to not wind those protein strands too tight. Ditto, "shallow-frying" but it wouldn't be as good as the deep version.

The meat in a confit is cooked extremely slowly in a very, very rich poaching fat. It allows the protein strands to relax, makes what would otherwise be very chewy meat very tender, and infuses an incredible richness into what would otherwise be somewhat dry and uninteresting. When reheating, most good strategies revolve around not making those protein strands to contract and re-toughen the meat. It's worth repeating, that when you work far enough away from definitional elements and methods, you're not talking about the same dish.

BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze - 9/1/11 at 7:11pm