Looking for advice on picking up my first Sujihiki - Page 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruscal 

totally agree. if i was a line cook spending 8 hrs a day chopping veg then i would totally go for a 270mm or a 240mm gyuto. i can see how that extra length would be crazy useful over the course of the day, speeding things up considerably.

 

but at home i chop for maybe 20 mins tops. a 210mm gyuto for home use seems totally legit to me.

 

i do find i use the 240mm suji a lot though. its great for fruit; i eat a lot of mango and its perfect for that.

 

if i had to reduce my knives down to just 4 i think i would go:
270mm scalloped bread

240mm suji

210mm gyuto

150mm petty

 

those lengths are based on using western handles. if i was going with japanese handles, then i'd probably add 30mm to each of those lengths.

 

 

First curious of the why behind your thoughts on going 30mm longer on the Japanese handles?

I do agree with both you and Wag on the idea that if needing to slice larger cuts of meat etc a longer slicer would be a big benefit, but somehow when I think of this I am finding myself looking at 300mm or at least 270mm, and unless that really rarely is the case (larger etc) it just seems to be the way to go.

Though I have used several smaller gyuto including a 180mm and found them all fine for the job at hand (actually the 180 I have used is a Tojiro DP and was very good for the job at hand, and the smaller board that was available at the time) and I know most home cooks are used to the 8" or 210mm chefs/gyuto that is supplied in most block sets etc I really find that the thinner, lighter, and sharper 240mm Fujiwara that I have been using the past year has become a true extension of my hand, and more than once I have speculated that a longer blade (maybe not as long as the 12" "woostie" that I used many times when learning) would have been a benefit.

So I still have the idea of a 270 gyuto in the back of my mind, but I really believe that for my current use and needs the 240mm is absolutely fine, and I just do not need the added expense of the 270mm etc.

All that said I am still needing to think and research more on the idea of the smaller 210mm range petty/slicer vs a longer Suji to find which I believe will produce more use or "bang for the buck" for my needs. I have all but removed the heavy full finger grip (have actually been moving from that without even realizing even before getting into J knives while my previous Henckels were actually becoming sharper due to boredom from unemployment lol) so I do not think that currently the blade height will cause any issues, but I am going to have to pay attention to how often I would really benefit from a 300mm Suji and then compare what I think about how much more use a 210mm could give, if any.

I did have a Henckels Pro S 8" slicer previously, and it did get some use, but primarily as a slicer only, and I do not recall actually using it for other jobs. Could have been for many reasons, but I can not be sure. Since that is about the same length as Wags petty I have to think I would have to find more use for it, and also that it may actually cover what I normally run into that needs slicing etc. and still can always revert to the gyuto anyway.

Have to admit that BDL has a way of writing that makes things "glow" or "sing" etc, and being his thoughts come from more of a professional/actual cooking use position they really make more sense to me than many of the enthusiasts or collectors, and I am sure his love affair with the Konosuke HD had a big affect on my decision to get one (damn I hope he is right lmao, jk) but also like I have said more than once before having a level headed non fanatical opinion has been so helpful I can not thank him enough.

Still remember he comes from a professional background, and some of the things discussed are difficult for someone who is and will continue to be a home cook to fully grasp. Not that I spent all that many years myself (had a hard time giving up all those nights and weekends lol) in this, but just being part of a small restaurants staff when things get crazy busy and things start flying etc just leaves a impression on you that is hard to forget.

Anyhow this is going to be a hard decision as have the previous ones, and I just hope I do not over think things too much just once again :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennyD 

First curious of the why behind your thoughts on going 30mm longer on the Japanese handles?....

They're measured differently.  wa-handled knives are measured from the ferrule to the tip, so some of the length in the mm measurement is neck length, where there's no edge. 

Jon shows his Gesshin Ginga line in this video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2X1RWfnWCeY

At about 2:35 he shows in passing the different measurements, with yo- and wa- handled knives next to each other. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagstaff 

 

They're measured differently.  wa-handled knives are measured from the ferrule to the tip, so some of the length in the mm measurement is neck length, where there's no edge. 

 

Jon shows his Gesshin Ginga line in this video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2X1RWfnWCeY

 

At about 2:35 he shows in passing the different measurements, with yo- and wa- handled knives next to each other. 

In sakai (and some other places) wa- handled knives with machi (not the gap, but the change in thickness from the neck of the knife to the tang) are measured from the handle to the tip.  Knives without machi (deba, etc.) and western handled knives are measured from the heel to the tip.  That accounts for the differences in edge length.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennyD 


Jon thanks for your input.
If I am reading this correctly then a 240 WA handled knife will have a blade more similar in lengthof the edge to that of a 210 in a yo handle knife?
To put this into better perspective for me what should I expect the difference to be in a HD 240 WA gyuto and a 240 yo gyuto (I use the gyuto due to currently being in the middle of swapping a yo for a wa and am now questioning if I should go longer?).
Well I guess this is part of the fun with J Knives as once you think you have somewhat of a " handle" on things you quickly find how much more there is to learn.

its usually about a 10-15mm difference depending on a number of factors... in general a 240mm wa will be longer than a 210mm yo.  In reality, i think there is very little functional difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBroida 

its usually about a 10-15mm difference depending on a number of factors... in general a 240mm wa will be longer than a 210mm yo.  In reality, i think there is very little functional difference.

 

Jon thanks again!

I do not think that should make too much of a difference (though it still is approx 7/16-5/8" for those not good with mm) and I did hear from Mark that this model is around 10mm difference so it is in the lower part of the range.

Are there any other differences in the HD line or others between the yo and wa that are worthy of knowing or discussing etc?

Since this will be my first true Japanese style handle knife I am looking forward to seeing the difference etc, but am also silently cautious as I really would prefer not to be motivated to be changing over to all new knives (even though I am sure both have their place and preference).

Then again when I see some of the beautiful examples you show in some of your videos it is tempting as hell too

I guess one of the harder things for a newbie to learn is how to tell a good quality handmade knife from a lesser one etc, and most likely the only more difficult thing is to understand just what that difference means to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennyD 

Are there any other differences in the HD line or others between the yo and wa that are worthy of knowing or discussing etc?

 

They are essentially the same geometry-wise between yo and wa... here are some things to pay attention to-

Yo knives are slightly longer than wa-knives so the measurements of spine thickness above the heel may be misleading... they are damn near the same (more variance from knife to knife than yo to wa)

Yo knives are MUCH heavier

In some brands, the yo knives dont have the rounded spine and choil like the wa ones do (I would go into this more, but then i have to start talking about things i sell more directly and that is not the point here)

obviously the balance will be different... wa is more blade heavy

Thats about it.

If I haven't mentioned it before, nice to see you here, JB!  Your expertise and worldview are a nice addition to CT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaedrus 

If I haven't mentioned it before, nice to see you here, JB!  Your expertise and worldview are a nice addition to CT.

+1

BDL

thanks guys