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Commercial kitchen question

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

Because I've heard of commercial kitchens being in churches, fire departments, and such, is a commercial kitchen pretty much any kitchen outside of a residence area? I'm looking for one to rent but haven't seen many. I noticed a kitchen inside a community log cabin (used for "youth clubs")  but didn't know what characteristics to look for...so what are basic requirements of commercial kitchens really?

post #2 of 19

First thing to look for is the Health Department Inspection form or Commercial kitchen license, if you cannot find it, it isn't a licensed commercial kitchen.

 

In California:

  • if it doesn't have seven (7) sinks, including air gaps in ALL drains within the kitchen, it is not a licensed commercial kitchen.
  • if it does not have a triple ware-wash sink, it is not a licensed commercial kitchen
  • if it does not have at least one hand wash sink with soap and towel dispenser, it is not a licensed commercial kitchen
  • if it does not have a seamless or sealed floor, it is not a licensed commercial kitchen
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
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post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the info Pete! :D

 

seven sinks? Oh my. I've seen smaller commercial kitchens at the back of certain eating establishments and can't help but wonder how they'd fit them all in there.  Then again, I do live in NJ...

post #4 of 19

Ah, my bad, that includes the floor sinks

 

  • Ware wash, 3 sinks, wash, rinse, sanitize
  • Floor sink to drain ware wash sinks
  • Hand wash sink
  • Floor sink to drain hand wash sink
  • Mop sink (can't use the others because of contamination, no floor sink necessary because it cannot be in the kitchen area.)
  • Total = Seven (minimum)

 

If you add a prep sink, the total is nine, add two for any other sink in the kitchen.

 

Oh, BTW, you are supposed to have a hand wash sink (hand washing ONLY) at every work station, yeah RIGHT!

Chef,
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post #5 of 19

a floor sink to drain the ware wash sinks? im not contesting your knowledge of cali law but you have to empty your sink into a sink?

 

wtf? ever heard of a plughole?

 

and who washes the mops in a sink? they are rinsed in the bucket and put in a washing machine with a capful of bleach...

 

so i get 4 sinks

 

and what if you use a dishwashing machine? you only need 1 prewash sink to remove residue and buildup.

 

and is it not one hand wash station per prep "area" so 4 benches and a couple of grills could have one sink at either end?

 

 

post #6 of 19

You're more than welcome to challenge my statements, I'm not the one that will close you down.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_seraphim View Post

a floor sink to drain the ware wash sinks? im not contesting your knowledge of cali law but you have to empty your sink into a sink?

The Food Code 2009 requires an air gap to prevent contamination from the building sewer being transferred to the sink(s). The floor sink is, generally, a 12"x12"x12" porcelain or stainless steel sink flush with the floor, the drain from the real sink(s) must end above floor level so there is no contact with the floor sink 

 

Quote:

wtf? ever heard of a plughole?

Not by that name.

Quote:

and who washes the mops in a sink? they are rinsed in the bucket and put in a washing machine with a capful of bleach...

Nobody says you have to use it, you just have to have one crazy.gif, besides, most restaurant kitchens I've been in do not have a washing machine available, definitely not within the kitchen area.

Quote:

so i get 4 sinks

Good luck, have fun explaining that to your local health inspector, be sure to cite the Food Code 2009 section that supports your contention crazy.gif

Quote:

and what if you use a dishwashing machine? you only need 1 prewash sink to remove residue and buildup.

You will notice that I never mentions dishwashing, the ware-wash sinks are required by the Food Code 2009, you can add anything you wish, just do not eliminate the required crazy.gif

Quote:
and is it not one hand wash station per prep "area" so 4 benches and a couple of grills could have one sink at either end?

Um, now you're getting into the area of negotiating with your local health inspector. In the restaurant I recently closed, we had to have a hand-wash sink next to the ware-wash sink, because the Food Code 2009 does not specifically state that a ware-wash sink can be used for hand washing but it does state that a hand wash sink can only be used for hand washing, go figure.

 

Because this was an existing facility well before the Food Code 2009, we were permitted to ignore many requirements. As related by the health inspector, a new kitchen requires a hand wash sink available to each person in the kitchen WITHOUT leaving your area or crossing through another persons work area, what that means in real life is anyone's guess.

 

I do know that any plans for a remodel or new construction of a commercially licensed kitchen in Tulare County, California, MUST be reviewed and approved by the County Health Department before any permits are issued.

 

Before you invest any time or money, ask to see the health department license and last inspection certificate.

 

You should be familiar with the FDA Food Code 2009 before you venture much farther.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chef,
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post #7 of 19

Oh, one last point, look for the NSF label on ALL equipment, appliances, etc.

 

Any consumer product, i.e. refrigerator, freezer, microwave, stove, oven, toaster, whatever, is not permitted in a commercial kitchen.

 

How do I know? Simple, my opening was contingent on getting rid of a non NSF microwave, toaster, freezer, refrigerator, drink dispenser, and a whole bunch of smallwares.

 

 

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post #8 of 19

firstly im in england so im sure the regulations are different.

 

with regards to the air gaps though, im not sure if i have any, although i do have some open drains in the floor that i hate with a passion

 

and the sink empties down a tube, usually a few inches across its just a hole in the bottom of the sink that can be plugged "hence plug-hole" we have one sink out by the grill/passthrough, another one on the other side of the pass through, the grill connects to a smallish kitchen prep area with two benches that use one or the other hand wash sinks although the one near the grill is larger so can be used for final wash before cooking or emptying hot pans of water through a sieve (cooking pasta etc) theres a large single sink at the back and in the potwash area there is a dual sink plus a dishwasher and because we have a hotel there is a washer dryer for laundry.

 

i guess we wouldnt pass the 2009 code, but its an old kitchen so there might be some leeway.

post #9 of 19

NSF also applies to sinks as well, they must be NSF or they won't pass inspection. Dunno, something about rough welds and tight corners, who knows?

 

Thank gawd we don't have a floor sink here, everything but the d/washer has to be plumbed to the greasetrap.  Icemachine and dishwasher have to have backflow prevention devices on them.

 

"Grandfathering" or letting old places get by is a very mixed bag.  In the 90's I worked in a very famous Zurich hotel, a brigade of 20 in the main kitchen with no ventialtion system whatsoever.  And don't even ask about handsinks.  Kitchens should be brought up to code, or when its time to sell, the offers will be low.

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #10 of 19

Gap sink was almost always used for salad prep. It stops any contamination from sewerage backing up. It can't back up into the prep sink.

Mop sink or mop wash area here in Florida is almost always outside in the back of kitchen.Hardly ever in the building. You have to have a 3 compartment ss sink even idf you have a dishwasher.(pots and pans)

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #11 of 19

A back-flow preventer (one-way valve) mounted onto sink drains is a heckuva lot cheaper and easier to manage than an air gap...

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post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post

A back-flow preventer (one-way valve) mounted onto sink drains is a heckuva lot cheaper and easier to manage than an air gap...

What makes sense and what meets regulations often bear no resemblance to one anotherlaser.gif"Hi, I'm from the gubbermint and I'm here to HELP you!"
 

 

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post #13 of 19

Oh. ..............

That explains why I have to have my sanitzer in a little red pail--wide mouth open little red pail-- so the crumbs and crud can drop in, and not have the sanitzer in a spray bottle where it can't be contaminated.

 

I lucked out on my handsink though.  Got the regular wall-mount s/s jobbie, but have intelligent faucets.  Looked long and hard for them.  Mine are made in China, cost me $120, and mount on the floor--I have two foot pedals, one for hot and one for cold.  Uses standard rubber "O" rings and washers.  Ye old health inspector looked at them long and hard, tested them out, and must have met his approval, the only thing he could complain about was the silicone caulking around the backsplash...

 

P.S. I don't have a mop sink.  I fill the mop bucket from a hose attached to my pot sink faucet, and empty the  dirty water in the terlet.

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post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post
...P.S. I don't have a mop sink.  I fill the mop bucket from a hose attached to my pot sink faucet, and empty the  dirty water in the terlet.

Oh dear, THAT is a major violation! crazy.gif Bathroom facilities may NOT be used for kitchen maintenance, only for kitchen EMPLOYEE maintenance,crazy.gif
 

 

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post #15 of 19

Years ago we gave inspectpr a sandwich and $10.00 and he went away. Now they are stricter and more expensive.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #16 of 19

I am trying to start a small popsicle business, and everything I read says I need to use a commercial kitchen to legally sell them in California. The problem is that all I really use to make them is a sink, a freezer, a refrigerator, and a blender. I want to make them in mass, without having to pay for an entire kitchen with all of the appliances that I don't need. A commercial kitchen rental is $500 for 20hrs a month which to me seems slightly unreasonable. Any advice?

post #17 of 19

Check with your local health inspector, they are generally knowledgeable as to what is available.

 

Could you work with a local ice cream place? One that makes their own, not just a store front.

 

If you can find someone with a blast freezer, you'd probably have an improved product. Any freezer plants in your area?

 

Maybe work with a co-packer?
 

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post #18 of 19

A kitchen with counters, cabinets or appliances on two opposing sides, or where appliances, cabinets or counters face an opposing wall, must have a walk-through distance at least 40 inches in width. Floors should be constructed of a non-permeable, non-absorbent, easily cleaned product. Portable fire extinguishers are required within 30 feet of any fire hazard. Separate sinks are required for utensil washing, food processing, hand washing and janitorial services. Sinks should be made of stainless or galvanized steel, which allows the surface to be thoroughly disinfected. And then stair treads to protect you and your floors, adds traction to reduce risk of slipping on stairs and adds cushioning for more comfort.


 

 


 

 


 

 


 


 

 


Edited by christofferjame - 10/11/12 at 5:43am
post #19 of 19

A commercial kitchen is any kitchen used for making food for other than family and friends - usually for profit, but can also be used by charities.  It does not have to be licensed to be a commercial kitchen, but probably does have to be licensed for you to get insurance and any local government approvals. 

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