Hey Grasshopper, harder isn't always better

I"m not a pro... but if it helps, I still agree with you.

 

Hardness is not irrelevant, but it's not reliable (i.e., reported hardness isn't even reliable, let alone the fact that it's measuring indentation, which is only indirectly related to forces on an edge).  And it's hardly the only consideration.  In many cases, harder steel is more difficult to sharpen (but not all -- not the only consideration, there, either).  It should, all else being equal (it never is) be something of an indication of how steep an edge a steel can take, and how good the edge retention is.  But an edge that can be sharpened quickly might be more important, or an edge that can kept true with a honing rod might be more important, or being able to sharpen on lesser stones, or *with lesser skill* might be more important...

 

And there's more detail to say about all of that, but the ultimate message is "I agree".

 

That said, edge-retention *is* important... steeper angles might be important...   there are reasons to want harder steels (up to a point) even for general-use knives.  But it's definitely not a sole indicator of the desirability of a knife.  Not even close. And you point out trade-offs very well.

In the first place, using carbon Sabs as a comparison is unfair. If ever there were a ringer, c'est la. Many of the AS knives are on the obverse side of that particular coin. They're made of a super-prestigious alloy, but for one reason or another don't have great edge or use qualities.

Sign my name right under the two of yours.

+1 more.

BDL

 

 

I'm not a pro, but if I were a pro, I would certainly go for those Fujiwaras too; cheap yet elegant, light, good profile, nice balance so they are very agile and feel as if they weigh nothing, easy to sharpen etc. Bref, a very no nonsense knife.

I do have personal experience with different kinds of steels as I own Fujiwaras, very similar and also very excellent Misono Moly, HiromotoAS and quite a number of VG10s from different makers, just one white steel carbon that I thourougly hate and one CowryX that I'm afraid to harm.

 

I always come back to my trusted FKM stainless simple Fujiwaras, also for tough jobs and occasional needed knife abuse like on lobstershells. I cut straight through chickenbones (legbones included!!) with their fantastic boning knife without having a scratch! For a very simple and obvious reason they seldom chip; they are made out of a little softer steel than say VG10s. They won't keep an edge very long but neither does any of my knives. Maybe I should say that VG10s have a little advantage on edge keeping. Still, if a chip comes off a knife, it's a VG10. All of them chip and it's only due to the fact that it is very hard steel, thus more brittle. And they are indeed quite difficult to sharpen correctly.

 

My conclusion is made a long time ago; imo Fujiwaras are made of the ideal kitchenknife steel! Ditto for Misono Moly. Not too hard not too soft. Still, their steel is already much harder than say a Wüsthof.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, by "ringer," I meant the Sabs are much, much better than many would expect. The term ringer refers to a pro who's passed off as an amateur as part of a hustle.

BDL

As a very disagreeable, nasty old man, I looked hard for something with which to disagree and nast... but nope. +1.

BDL

Merde! That was supposed to be secret.

BDL

My unwanted child in white steel is a 270 mm slicer made by Naozumi. It came with little or no sharpening and much too thick to be a good cutter, nothing new for a Japanese knife. Then I dicided to thin it. Took me 2 days hard labour on a rough stone to get it right! Since the blades were all scratched up from the thinning I tried to polish the thing. Again I spent endless hours to get it at a mirror polished state. Two days later I made jam with pine apples. The knife reacted very violently probably due to fresh metal being exposed; strong discoloration and a bad smell coming from the steel (I didn't realize pine apple was so acidic). To be short, I never got it back to the mirrorfinish, so I dicided to roughen it up again with sandpaper.

It still is an incredible tough thing and can be sharpened to an unknown level, but I don't like it. I prefer stainless.

 

It's the longest knife in the first picture. The second picture is after thinning and mirror polishing (you really have to be totally nuts to do this!). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Though I am very close to deciding on the next addition to my "family" and expect it to be something very different than this I have to admit I am very happy I found my way to purchasing that knife (Fujiwara FKM 240 Gyuto) over the more expensive ones and even the same length Tojiro DP.

 

Have not worked in a commercial setting in a long time, but still get to put them through their paces fairly often (sliced up a few pounds of nice skirt steak with her today) and thoroughly enjoy my Fuji.

 

Since the guys here were part of that decision to go with the function of Fujiwara over the hardness of the VG10 blades I was also considering I once again give them props for steering me in the right direction.

 

The ease of sharpening has been a big benefit, and even though it does not hold that edge as long as the Tojiro DP's I have it is fine for my use and better than any of the Germans I had used previously.

 

Only problem I am having is that I keep finding a growing interest in these Sabs that BDL is so fond of. Had even made a stop on a recent trip down I95 earlier this year to a "supposed" factory outlet located in GA, but was not finding anything like I see discussed here, and prices were obscene.

 

So in helping out a not so young grasshopper which ones should I be looking for? I am going to try and fit both a slicer (most likely suji or?) and a longer ish petty 150mm+ into the budget so try to stay around those etc.

 

Only other factors I have decided on is that I wanted to try one of the higher end vg10 (well higher than the Tojiro I have now) and also something carbon or semi carbon. Not sure which will be which material, and also keep in mind I am trying to have something "more" to compare the Fuji and Tojiro to etc.

 

Oh and BTW great thread!!!!!!

 

 

 

Chris I got two questions for you on this.

 

How long did it really take you to get the whole thing polished up like that?

 

What did you use?

 

Oh heck make it three lol, does it still look anything like in the pic above?

 

Thanx