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The Market Sucks  

post #1 of 75
Thread Starter 
Anyone else getting killed? Or just me? The only good news is that I'm not a German bank holding significant amounts of Greek paper.

BDL
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post #2 of 75

WATCH OUT BDL!!!

 

 

Good luck if this even hints at being at all political. Vaporization is on it's way. 

 

I really hate uber-rich people. I hate the speculators that slash and burn the market daily on whims. Just remember though, you don't lose anything until you sell out at a loss. Fundamentals of a company are not related to or any reflection of speculators and up-down price swings. I would tell you to stay solid, and not to over-fear daily conditions as opposed to long-run possibilities. 

 

You do not seem to me to be a speculating day-trader. I apologize if I've offended you if you are. I'm not apologizing to anyone else though. 

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

post #3 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceMan View Post
...I really hate uber-rich people.

Not me, I'm just insanely jealous! crazy.gif
 

 

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
post #4 of 75

BDL 

YOU ARE NOT ALONE . I have been playin market for abot 25 years. First time I have been down so much maybe 40 k total. I have seen it come back many times, but this time is different. These politicians and there non- doing self serving greed  have sealed our fate. From what I read  last month 16 billion dollars was taken out of 401 ks and Ira s. Soon they will have everybody on bread lines. German Banks? is bank America in any better shape  Billions in bad mortgages that are selling at a 50% discount here in Florida.

I just put a lien on a bank for monies owed our association(I am Pres.) and believe it or not they paid,  Lien cost me 10.00 to County Clerk. Plus cert mail cost. I did all leg work myself no attorney. We collected $6000.00

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

post #5 of 75

Who me? 

 

Any money I have, I invest back into my business.  It's my "long term investment scheme".

 

O.T.O.H. I have a lot of Swiss relatives jumping up and down, and telling everyone "I tolja so!"....

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
post #6 of 75

Yep its pretty bad over here too. All I have to say is, if you were thinking of teaching your kids the value of money you'd better hurry up!

post #7 of 75

Please Stop complaining.

The President says that small business is going to fix all our troubles.

Have faith!!!!!!!!

If I make any more monies on precious metals I will be forced to buy a conviencence store! and put 2 people I can't' communicate with to work.

Oh wait!!! The news is telling me my health insurance rates are going down!!!!!!! I now pay 31,560.00 a year for my wife and I. Wonder what I'm in for???? Oh!!! That's after tax.

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

post #8 of 75

In the biggest picture, I think it's the giant market correction that for a long time should have been coming. In my silly opinionated ideology, 11 of the DJIA should split 2:1 and 1 more should go 3:1. That's just me of course. As it is today, the average is UP 6.62% from a year ago. WTF? Why is anyone unhappy, with today's savings rates, with a return like that? The best CD rate APY I could find in the last minute was 2.34%. Shoot, gold has made back $100 in the last week. Is anyone happy with that? 30-year Treasuries are yielding 3.27%. Anyway, maybe I'm just too grumpy. 

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

post #9 of 75

Iceman, seeing as how you seem to be fond of criticizing the way this forum is moderated in public, I'm not going to do you the courtesy of responding in private. If you don't like the rules and the decisions made regarding them here, feel free to go elsewhere. You are becoming tiresome.

Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
post #10 of 75

We've always used the so-called safe investments... neither of us knows enough about it to even consider the stock market. 

 

I don't remember where I read it, but I saw in an article talking about real estate and that it's not the investment it once was.  I guess with that timing is everything!   I was looking at the MLS listings the other day as we are looking to sell next year and for the fun of it, I wanted to see what the expensive properties in town looked like and I found this

 

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=10934947&PidKey=-570387318

 

Now there is no way on earth we would even consider buying it but it was interesting to look at the pictures and see what a few million would buy!  I would love to see the home just for its historical value but I'm sure we'd have to dress formally or something just to be allowed inside!

OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
post #11 of 75
Thread Starter 
Don't worry, no politics, no blame, no market explanations, no investment advice.

I wasn't asking for advice when I started the thread, just sympathy.

Day trader? Don't know what that means anymore. If by "long term" you mean buy, close my eyes, hold forever, and hope -- then I am a day trader. If by "day trader," you mean make multiple trades every day, then not very often.

Every day I spend at least an hour studying the market; know what the futures are when the market opens; know the where all the market indexes are when it closes; know where the major commodities stand; and check my personal "positions" several times daily with an eye on the main chance. My picks are based on long term market and sector expectation, as well as the individual company's "fundamentals." But I'm willing to trade at any time. I don't see any virtue in riding a loser down to the bottom just because it seemed like a good investment when purchased. While it's more difficult emotionally to dump a dog than make an optimistic buy, I have one rule and it's "don't squeeze." But that's me, not you, it's certainly not advice, and I'm not recommending it as a life style.

A little volatility is one thing, but if you're in the market and paying attention, how can it be less than stressful? Even though I know that as a matter of history all recoveries from credit crises are flabby and anemic, and that the global credit crisis is ongoing, a bumpy ride down -- if only for a couple of months -- is distressing. August and the first three investment days of September made me nuts.

No matter how many years you've been doing it, no matter how strong your sangfroid, no matter how long your view, when your portfolio loses a bunch of money in a day, the loss may represent only 0.3% your portfolio, but it's still a bunch of money and your digestion still churns. Even if today you make back twice what you lost yesterday, yesterday still sucked.

Can I get an "Amen?"

BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze - 9/7/11 at 9:32am
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post #12 of 75

BDL,

I sympathize. The thing that concerns me is,, Is it going to be a couple of months??? Actually history kinda tells us it is going to be years unless we pick up arms against

someone else.

I mentioned stocks here a couple of months ago because we all kind of knew this was coming. I was crusified, shot in the back 13 times and labeled a real jerk.

I was swithching everything over into bio. I'm fully concentrated in stem cell therapy. I just wanted some feedback. I'm ok for now. BUT!

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

post #13 of 75

The little guys like us will always get hurt >The SEC should regulate short sales when a broker can do it with a million shares. He then sets the price and risk in the rest of market. We can't win anymor. I am simply watching and when Mine break even  GET OUT. I will then buy distressed Flrida forclosures. @ weeks ago I went to a foeclosure auction on courthouse steps. A 165000 original price townhouse went for 15000. it needed some work but not 150,000 worth.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

post #14 of 75

Chefedb:

 

Many stories here about local guys (Vancouver) buying houses in Florida and getting screwed over, some of the foreclousres are legit, some aren't.

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
post #15 of 75
Thread Starter 
Tuesday was bloody, but did get less awful as the day wore on. At market's close we'd "un-lost" more than half compared to the morning's debacle. Losing money isn't a good thing, but it could have been much worse. Today we did okay. [Shrug] It goes down, it goes up or it stays the same. What are you going to do?

By "a couple of months" I didn't mean I expected the market to turn peachy, but would pull the trigger on a diversified investment strategy rather than just hanging out so "long cash."

My grandfather used to say, "If there was a sure way to make a million dollars, everyone would be a millionaire."

BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze - 9/7/11 at 9:53pm
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
What were we talking about?
 
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post #16 of 75

I noticed in one of the posts, someone...I think it was BDL....made a comment about "playing" in the markets.

 

Has anybody ever realized that is exactly what the stock market is all about? Playing, like a game of poker or more appropriate Russian Roulette! The stock market was built for the rich to legally gamble on their counterparts success or failure. It was never intended to be a sustainable source of income for anyone because of so many variables....the two biggest of which are the whims and idiosyncrasy's of the people involved.

 

We have a fund, I watch it go up and down with as much fluctuation as the price of gas. It's funny because I decided several years ago that this was not the way for us to go. We went with real-estate and happily, because of BRAC and a few other things.....we're not in too bad of shape. We never had the swing that was seen in so many other markets. Yet I will say that the markets may have worked for my parents back in the 80's but it wasn't going to be as sustainable as it has in the past. So....other than the contribution by the Company....which is going away soon too..... we don't contribute to it. Everyone talks about this "Market Correction" and that things will bounce back. I believe you're fooling yourselves and this is just a part of a big lie to keep your money flowing into their playground. It's my personal belief that it never will rebound in a healthy way, as long as things remain the way they are. There's just too much speculation. You'd almost be better withdrawing the money, taking the hit on penalties and fees and taking the money to Vegas or Atlantic city and throwing it on a bunch of different tables.

 

We also place too much emphasis on one position or role in things. It's the whole ball of wax and not just one individual or branch. Think about it. Who makes the laws? Who are the ones that have been holding their positions for 10-20-30-50 years? Now we have a new thought and he one person behind that thought has been ostracized by the talking heads. Plus......all I see are the people that benefited from all we that has done in the past 80 years, throwing their noses up and blaming the system for the problems. Everything we are afraid of becoming is present in every aspect of our society. It's all there. Socialism, Dictatorships, Fascism, Democracy.....I just can't seem to find any Republic or any of the beliefs that brought us the 210 years before all this mess started.

 

Where would any of us be without the schools and programs we all enjoyed growing up? I am a product of that "Boom" and believe you me.....I have much respect for the people that helped shape my life but all the majority of anyone does is jump on a band wagon and show contempt for things. Yes there is room for improvement but I have to agree with something that I heard someone say..........I'm all for rules of the road.....just smarter rules and some everyone will follow.

 

Playing the stocks, playing poker, playing Russian Roulette.........it's nothing more than playing the odds. Yet the one big difference is.......everyone that is running the show and playing these odds are screwing with our country and our lives. What they do doesn't just affect them and their circle.....it affects the whole world but until people start to see this......things are gonna get much worse before they will ever get better. Well....everyone can stop worrying about heading for a two class system......it arrived in 2006....We just had to wait for it to "trickle down"! 

 

IMHVPO and....................

 

That's all I have to get off my chest. Soapbox neatly tucked under bed once again.

post #17 of 75
Thread Starter 
Old -- Ed is the player, not me.

Congratulations on the success of your real estate investment. As you know, the broader, U.S. RE market took an epic hit in 2008 and has yet to significantly recover. Your position is unusual, as most RE investors would be better off had their money been in stocks. A wild up, down, up, down, up ride triggers a lot of anxiety but it's better than straight down and stay there.

The stock market is a primary vehicle for "capital" to increase its value without labor or direct involvement on the part of the capital holder, i.e., the capitalist. It is a fundamental and necessary part of capitalism and a free market economy. It came about to allow: (1) Corporations and other joint ventures to seek funding from investors, without seeking a loan or giving up a great degree control and while protecting the stock-purchaser from liability; and (2) Investors the opportunity to trade their investments with one another.

While it's neither consistent nor safe, the stock market is hardly "Russian roulette." Russian roulette is a game you're almost certain to lose if you play long enough. On the other hand, the market's value largely tracks the economy and as the economy expands, the mass of equities will increase value at roughly the same rate. The U.S. economy has been expanding -- with periodic fits and starts -- since before there was a U.S., and is likely to continue expanding -- with periodic fits and starts. Currently, we're either mired in one of those fits, or slowly emerging from one. It's true the market is not a safe place, even in the short term. "Stuff happens" to individual equities, even during a good economy. And while mentioning the market allows investors to make homogenized investments by buying one sort of index tracker or another; and that "diversified" investing is a hallmark of pre-retirement planning and not necessarily post-retirement income generation, I won't give advice.

It is widely accepted that both the broader market place in general and the stock market in particular require some degree of regulation in order to run fairly and well, and to protect the consumer/investor from fraud. One measure of partisan political affiliation is how much regulation you support. Another is whether you believe publicly collected retirement insurance (Social Security) should be invested in private stocks whether by the government (like some State pension funds are) or the individual (treating SS payments like a 401K) . Oddly, yet another is whether you believe we're still in recession and headed for the second dip of a double, or believe we're in a recovery.

No politics, so The End.

BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze - 9/8/11 at 7:53am
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post #18 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post

Chefedb:

 

Many stories here about local guys (Vancouver) buying houses in Florida and getting screwed over, some of the foreclousres are legit, some aren't.



I've heard the same thing as well.  60 Minutes did a piece earlier in the year about homeowners in the US walking away from their homes because they could no longer afford the mortgage and knew that forclosure was imminent.  It was sad.. some of these people were middle aged and heading towards retirement when they were faced with that. 

OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
post #19 of 75

The mortgage and foreclosure situation is the fault of greed. Greed by the banks.Most homes here that were purchased the outstanding mortagage is more then the house could be sold for. Therefore walk away. There was a man down here on local news  82 years old not in best of health mentally applied for mortgage 250000 house 17000. down was approved for mortgage. 82 +30 is 112. Think he will live to pay it off? Yep blame the banks for the easy approval of mortgages and Oh yes  blame  Alan Greenspan too. Bank America holds more deinquent mo.rtgages then they have in cash I dont give them that long either, I hope I am wrong.,But look at Lehman Bros.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

post #20 of 75

Beg to differ ChefEDB,

 

Some of the blame has to be placed on our Congress persons and Administration that mandated the reduction in down payment requirements and the relaxation of income verification because "home ownership was for the public good".

 

A long time ago, someone figured out that homeowners, in the days of 20% down and 15 year mortgages, are responsible people. In our lawmakers infinite wisdom, they concluded, gee, if we make people homeowners, they will become responsible, therefore, lower the down payment requirement, lengthen the term from 15 to 30-40 years. allow interest only, and penalize the banks that don't comply. Dumb, dumber, and dumbest!

 

Old bankers died, and the new young bankers think this is the way it always has been.

 

Oh, to shore up the risky loans? Well, what do you think is the purpose of Fannie Mae and Fannie Mac, hmm????

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
post #21 of 75

Little off topic.

  Is it possible my no nothing little poker group bought a 6 yr old strip center in Nevada for 18 months back tax???

Let's see. That's about .060 value. No tenents. CAM 800. mth. We're running to marry each other to get this done!!!

I'm leary!!! But I'm in !!!!

You supposedly can see the strip from this property. Buddies say Culinary school!! I say depreciate it!!!!

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

Never! Live To Work!:::::::Work To Live!::Life Is To Short!!
Paninicakes.com

post #22 of 75
Thread Starter 
Pan,

I'm missing something here.

Your group will form an LLP (or some other liability limiting business form) to purchase; fund it only to the purchase price, plus the low monthly nut; the purchase price is something like 6 cents on the dollar of its actual, current worth; and you're going to try to move some sort of credit for "depreciation" to your personal income tax?

How would that work?

BDL
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
post #23 of 75

Awe shucks, I misread "strip center" confused.gif, I thought it was laser.gifstrip club!

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
post #24 of 75

This financial talk is all Greek to me... all I know is we get a statement every month telling us where we are at and that is good for us. 

 

OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
post #25 of 75

iTS YOUR $, YOU SHOULD BECOME MORE AWARE AS TO HOW IT IS INVESTED .In particular if someone else is investing for you ie 401k Ira, mutual etc.. They mske $ whether you gain or lose. You Do not.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

post #26 of 75

That's what my sister in law who worked in banking for years keeps after us about.  Slowly we're becoming more aware but I find the tech talk of the financial world very challenging to say the least. 

OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
post #27 of 75
Thread Starter 
Today is looking bad as The Great European Debt Crisis moves towards becoming very actual and very acute. European CDOS indicate investor belief of a 92% probability that Greece will default -- perhaps this weekend.

The drop in the markets here reflect the interconnectedness of major world financial institutions, reflects sell offs of American equities by European investors who are forced to raise cash, the hysterical nature of investors, and their tendency to overreact in the face of bad news. Today is not about the shorts, it's not about the "big guys," it's not about RE being better (RE will probably take a hit as well), it's not about the President's speech, his plan, or U.S. politics in any way.

It's about Europe, and is just one of those things. Things could look very different next week.

BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze - 9/9/11 at 8:05am
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
What were we talking about?
 
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post #28 of 75

My adviser said, "Cheer up, things could be worse!", so I cheered up and sure enough, things got worse!

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
post #29 of 75

LOL Pete... so I guess we should just all be grumpy? 

 

All joking aside we all have to watch out for our futures and for me that means becoming more aware and learning to understand the jargon that seems to impermeate the financial world.

OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
OK ... where am I going?.. and WHY am I in this handbasket??
post #30 of 75
Thread Starter 
x
Edited by boar_d_laze - 9/9/11 at 5:29pm
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