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The Market Sucks - Page 2  

post #31 of 75
9/17/11 at 9:48am

you all do belong to the church of cramer don't you?

joey

post #32 of 75
9/18/11 at 9:33pm
Thread Starter 
Lol. Cute little bugger.

The guy knows a lot, is a great popularizer, and his advice to be flexible by cutting your losses, buying on the dips, and taking your wins makes a lot more sense than the "conventional wisdom" of buying to hold and holding no matter how bad a choice it was or became.

But church? No.

Also, think the morning slot where he's on the Anchor by Committee which fills some of the void left by Mark Haine's loss doesn't really work for him. But... almost every "economic reporter" on CNBC and Bloomberg really, truly, deeply sucks. Cramer is a cross between Edward R. Murrow and Albert Einstein in comparison.

BDL
post #33 of 75
9/19/11 at 6:46am

I invest long term, some days I hold stocks three or four hours. I learned in 98, 99, before the DOT COM crash  to take profit. I aways tell people when your dancing in the streets, bragging about how much money your making, SELL............Waiting for the Euro to be Parity with the dollar............Lots of problems in Europe, just the beginning..................

post #34 of 75
9/19/11 at 8:51am

bdl,

i love cramer's 'mad money'...he gives out a lot of information in a short amount of time to make good choices...i think he's brillant and funnier than hell, though i wouldn't want to have to live with him!....don't discount the women of cnbc... 'power lunch', 'the call', 'half time report' etc., maria being queen bee are all unbelievably good, and over the top smart as well. all i know is that it takes a lot of time and energy every single day to keep on top of it all....i don't do it as i don't have the patience, and money issues make me crazy, but for my husband, it's his daily grind.......interesting times for sure, and there are actually some good buys out there...but i have neither the stomach or the nerves for it.....

joey


Edited by durangojo - 9/19/11 at 12:27pm
post #35 of 75
9/20/11 at 7:00pm
Thread Starter 
As you know I really like competent women, but none of the regulars on CNBC impress me very much. The best you can say is that they're not Rick Santelli or Bloomberg's women of the morning.

AM Bloomberg is pretty much of a sorority party where every day includes a ton of Apple-news and analysis of product improvements like new i-phone colors. Bloomberg's morning women's attire frequently includes glam makeup and a cocktail dress. Bloomberg's AM boys, Dom and John are still weaker and equally pop-culture obsessed. I think they call each other every morning to co-ordinate their ties and shirt colors. They like lavender and pale blue.

Unfortunately Bloomberg's chirons, crawls and other graphics convey more meaning, faster than CNBC's. At least to me. So I watch more Bloomberg than CNBC in the morning -- which is at least an hour every weekday -- when I usually decide whether doing something is better than passivity and denial.

If you want to see competent female financial reporters, try CNBC World's programming starting with Squawk Box Asia and running through Squawk Box Europe. Competent, informative, and appropriately dressed. (It might be unfair to discuss a woman's appearance since we men have it so much easier. But out of bounds or not, a reporter's dress, hair and makeup should be professional.)

What I want more than anything from an economic reporter is someone who (a) knows what she or he is talking about, (b) understands what guests are saying, and most important (c) will push back when a guest -- especially an important guest -- is factually wrong, lies, and/or presents political dogma as fact. You don't get much of that from any US news source.

BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze - 9/20/11 at 7:27pm
post #36 of 75
9/21/11 at 3:16pm
Thread Starter 
Really, really horrible day.
post #37 of 75
9/21/11 at 3:36pm

truly sorry you had such a bad day. that's one reason it makes me nuts. it's too volatile, too nerve racking. getting back to your earlier post, while i agree that the cnbc dress code seems a little laxer with higher skirts, tighter lower tops, spike heeled boots that could kill you and heavy hair and makeup, what does that have to do with competency? as we all know 'sex sells'. god, just look at the cooking shows! it's a ratings game... what pray tell makes them incompetent? while they are not economists or have mba's, most of them graduated with journalism degrees(business) from the top 10 schools. for the most part they read off of a teleprompter...someone else's words. when they do special assignment interviews, i think they do a fairly good job. if i have a criticism it would be that they are too conservative in their interviews. there again they are ruled by a corporation...a corporation that depends on ratings. you know what makes a woman sexy? wait, don't answer that....it's not the clothes or lack thereof..smarts, intelligence, competence, confidence, moxie, knowledge...all these are empowering, and while i know this sounds opray-y empowerment is just plain sexy....to be fair,i will take your suggestion and devote some time to SB asia and europe. 

joey


Edited by durangojo - 9/22/11 at 6:25am
post #38 of 75
9/22/11 at 9:06am
Thread Starter 
Today sucks much, much worse. I hate Europe.

BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze - 9/22/11 at 9:34am
post #39 of 75
9/22/11 at 9:40am

you don't have a second story do you? come on, what the hell were you gonna do with all that money anyway...live forever? oy...

yesterday...guess the fed finally figured out that no one has any money, nobody's buying anything. no borrowers, no lenders...everybody's nervous...geez people can't even afford to get divorced these days...they have to wait for the housing market to get healthier so they can sell the house so they can get the divorce...so you see my friend, it could be worse!

joey

you do have a financial advisor, no?


Edited by durangojo - 9/22/11 at 10:16am
post #40 of 75
9/22/11 at 11:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
you do have a financial advisor, no?

Sort of. Not exactly yes or no. I'm at Schwab, take private (one or two investors) classes and ask a lot of questions. But I don't have someone making decisions for me, if that's what you mean. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Two pieces of good news. First, I'm "long cash" right now, about two-thirds of the non-real estate is in cash, and will remain so until Europe settles down. Second, the losses today on the portion of my "portfolio" which is equity invested are barely more than half the markets' (2.4% v 5%), at least partly because because of dumb luck.

Hooray for dumb luck!

The handwriting's been on the wall for Europe since early last year. The solution is obvious. Even the half-a$$ed solution they will eventually pass is obvious. It's equally obvious that the more they diddle the worse things will get and the more it will cost PDQ. This is a lot about placating a particular, unreasonable constituency which demands punishment for "moral hazard" even though it may bring down the entire continent. Just ridiculous.

There's no suggestion of American parallels here, but feel free to draw your own inferences.

Still sucks. Not just for me. Everyone's taking a beating, and that sucks mightily.

BDL
post #41 of 75
9/22/11 at 12:05pm

yeah,  a lot of people here have lost a lot, but then again they had a lot to lose...i can't feel too awful for someone  who has lost there 3rd house...it's the everyday hard working common folk who bought into the american dream and are now just trying to stay afloat and not to get forclosed on that upsets me most...

joey

i'm with charlie as well

post #42 of 75
9/22/11 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChefBillyB View Post

I invest long term, some days I hold stocks three or four hours. I learned in 98, 99, before the DOT COM crash  to take profit. I aways tell people when your dancing in the streets, bragging about how much money your making, SELL............Waiting for the Euro to be Parity with the dollar............Lots of problems in Europe, just the beginning..................


Nicely said ChefBillyB!

  

 

 

    Taking profit is something that a person must learn to do...it's not always an easy thing to learn.  When the market is going up, it goes up in swings.  This gives you a chance to both sell high and buy again.  When it goes down, it also goes down in swings...giving you opportunity to take losses.  

 

   

    There are times to make money and there are times not to lose money.  I don't mind being down some value during a retracement period where the market is after higher highs and higher lows. But when the market is after lower highs and lower lows, I'll step aside and wait for a new entry point.  This way I not only ensure that I do not suffer the losses of a larger downswing, but also that I have the money and confidence to re-enter when the price is low and where I have strong support.

 

    BDL, yeah, this is certainly a tough market.  But you have got choices.  I remember in 2008 I watched my account dwindle down to half, I told myself I would not make that choice again...regardless what others are doing.

 

   Dan

post #43 of 75
9/22/11 at 4:28pm

i'm thinking we should rename it 'woe street'

joey

post #44 of 75
9/23/11 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post

Today sucks much, much worse. I hate Europe.

BDL


don't hate europe...they are in the worse shape of the planet...no exporting to the states, high unemployment, rioting in the streets.....it's because this thing is so global that to me makes it even scarier...then of course there's always the chinese......

joey

 

post #45 of 75
9/23/11 at 7:05pm
Thread Starter 
Have you ever had Chinese cheese?

It's hard to discuss China meaningfully since so much of the information we get from them is... shall we say... wishful thinking. They could be heading towards a stall or possibly even a bust... but very hard to tell.

The EU just turned down an offer from China to buy some of the worst European debt in exchange for trading concessions. China may have an excess capacity problem, they've never really developed their domestic markets, and in the meantime the real-estate markets in their biggest cities are showing signs of stress. We all know what happens when the RE market cracks -- credit crisis.

The US markets semi-demi-partly-stabilized (like buffet-table pannacotta on a warm day) on the rumor that EU political/financial people will meet over the weekend and hammer out a way to kick the can down the road.

BDL
post #46 of 75
11/7/11 at 2:27pm
Thread Starter 

First Greece, now Italy.  What's the future of the Euro and Euro Zone?

 

Love to see Berlusconi forced out.  Odds?  He's a survivor.  I give it 7:5 he makes it through the next couple of days.  The guy has as many political lives as a cockroach. 

 

Stll pazzo,

BDL


Edited by boar_d_laze - 11/8/11 at 6:37am
post #47 of 75
11/8/11 at 9:09am
Thread Starter 

There's a perfectly good reason none of us are billionaires.  You should have taken the bet, while I shouldn't have made it.  From this morning's FiTi feed:

 

Breaking News
 
 
Berlusconi loses majority in crunch vote
Silvio Berlusconi’s centre-right government has lost its majority in parliament in a key vote on last year’s accounts that came after mounting concern in bond markets piled pressure on the embattled Italian prime minister by pushing borrowing costs to fresh euro-era highs
http://link.ft.com/r/M2ZOXX/7AKRN0/GI2IQ/XHBP1M/HYROZ4/VU/h?a1=2011&a2=11&a3=8

. 

post #48 of 75
11/9/11 at 3:56pm
Thread Starter 

He's doing it again. 

 

Whimper. [:curled up in fetal position smilie:]

 

BDL

 

 

post #49 of 75
11/9/11 at 6:23pm

  Hey BDL!

 

 

  Fundamental news is nothing but a bunch of excuses.  This Euro problem is the same Euro problem they have had from the start, always with Italy as one of the problems.  They tell everyone that things are rosy, and watch the market go up...only to return back down in a little bit.  Fundamentals don't tell you where the market is going, how the market approaches and responds to technical levels will let you know.  Fundamentals do little more than give you needed movement to reach the technical levels.  

 

  When they talk all they say is blah, blah, blahblah...blah, blah, blah!

 

things will be rosy again soon, lol

 

crawda2.gif

 

 

EUR/USD

 

 

Dan

post #50 of 75
11/10/11 at 12:43pm

I have been mostly out of the investments market since 2006. Only thing interesting right now is oil and if there is war with Iran I am going all in with the money I keep out for investments and getting out on the way up. I have made a lot of money in the market and believe me I took the profit right out and got out. I am only interested if there are big gains to be made like when oil jumped from $9 to $40 a barrel and like when Netscape and Yahoo stock soared, I bought into both and sold on the way up. The markets are nothing more than legalized gambling and I believe they operate under a exemption under federal law on gambling. People get too greedy and I have watched many friends lose everything because they wanted to see the price go up and when it went down they waited for it to recover. My aunt lost over 4 million as she has faith in the system but my uncle lost about 500K because he saw what was coming and got out. 

 

The best investment I ever made was in guns, specifically machine guns. What I bought in the 80's for 2K is now worth anywhere between 12K and 50K each depending on how many are available for citizen ownership. Absolutely cleaned house with these investments. If I had a time machine I would go back and buy more. If you want to put your money where it will make you a lot now open a gun store, a friend of mine pulls in 40K a month after taxes and sits on the phone and the net for 10 hours a day brokering guns for people too stupid to direct buy themselves and drop ship to their dealers. He has ZERO in inventory yet sells 200- 600 guns a month, big money to be made. 

post #51 of 75
11/11/11 at 9:56am
Thread Starter 

Today the market un-sucks. 

 

We're currently overweight oil, and as it happens those stocks are doing well today.  However, a NYMEX price of around $100 probably isn't sustainable in the same way the $80 - $90 range is.  Although the US appears to be the "flight to quality" destination, our economy is in better shape than a lot of analysts thought last quarter, the dollar looks to strengthen slightly, nevertheless I expect prices to fall in the near short term, and the share prices to retrench accordingly through the winter.  Oil stocks aren't exactly cyclical or secular but a sort of mixed bag, and I've pegged them as a long term hold until late spring, early summer.  My intention is to just ride along with them.

 

I'll probably dump my utilities pretty soon, if anyone cares.

 

BDL 

post #52 of 75
11/12/11 at 1:29pm

bdl,

if i knew your address i'd send you the finest pair of chopsticks i could find..highly polished bone with abalone and pearl inlay...something durable enough to last a lifetime!

joey

post #53 of 75
11/13/11 at 8:15am
Thread Starter 

China has, shall we say, issues.  Whether they're just a passing cloud or the harbinger of a serious storm is unclear. 

 

Harbinger is a good word, isn't it?

 

You're too young to remember those halcyon days during the Reagan era, when the Japanese economy was forever and Americans wished themselves to be business samurai.  After that they all decided they wanted to be just like the Germans. 

 

At least we choose cultures with good food.  Embarrassing as it is to admit, I already have the silver mounted, inlaid chopsticks.

 

BDL

post #54 of 75
11/13/11 at 2:35pm

I just happened into this forum, where i never tread - and was astonished.  I hope some day i can retire and have enough money to keep my 900 sq foot apartment and be able to visit my kids.  I doubt it, though.  I will probably have to work till i die. 

 

I have a friend who inherited a ton of money, and whose husband managed to earn a ton of money as well (in a way i consider immoral - doing "research" for drug companies).  She was complaining to me back in the crisis last year that she lost something like 10 thousand dollars in america (where her parents left her their fortunes).  I told her, well, just think, you had ten thousand dollars to lose!  I wish i had that much aside.

Please take a little perspective.

 

My own feeling is that all this mess began in the States with wild and frenzied investments, incredible and outrageous greed.  When I was a kid the richest person i knew had maybe 10 or 20 times the salary as the poorest.  The average worker (factory worker, fireman, clerk) was able to buy a house (with a wife and kids that didn;t work). Now there's no way a person with a job like that can even pay a lousy rent on one salary. They can;t do it even with two salaries, without going into debt.   Now the rich person earns thousands of times as much as the average worker. Does that make sense?  How many boats do they need?  How many houses in how many luxury places?  what can they possibly do with all that money?  That kind of growth is like cancer and now we pay the price.

On a happier note, last night i rode around rome with my husband to celebrate the fall of Berlusconi with a big italian flag out the window of the car (as they do here when italy wins a soccer match) and a sign on the back saying "festa della liberazione" - (which is the holiday that celebrated italy liberated from fascism) and got lots of cheers and horns beeping and thumbs up, V signs and fists waving.  Plus lots of laughs. 

 

 

post #55 of 75
11/15/11 at 8:56am

bdl,

you mean halcyon daze? i remember the reagan era and his 'nomics despite the 70's! was never a fan and could never get my head around his particular brand of politicking.  i grew up in d'c.'s inner city where protests, demonstrations and sit in's were the norm. i salute the 'occupy wall streeters'. american profits soared in the 80's and we were definately living the high life. but is was a bubble, a glass house...doomed to be shattered.....you as a californian should especially remember when the floor fell out from under you...you guys were first....more later...time limit's up...

joey

post #56 of 75
11/15/11 at 10:09am
Thread Starter 

durangojo,

 

Where will I go for hand patting and cold beer if this thread gets shut down for politics? 

 

BDL   

post #57 of 75
11/16/11 at 3:09pm

the bar like everyone else!....mea culpa, mea culpa.....

joey

post #58 of 75
11/16/11 at 4:22pm
Thread Starter 

Fitch Ratings, why do you hate me?

 

BDL

post #59 of 75
11/16/11 at 5:00pm

i have no idea what fitch ratings are but one final word, i swear...

because of global 'politics' the world economy and all markets are affected...period...so it's still in the frame of this thread to me....otre vez

joey

i still think you should take your silver inlaid chopsticks out of the box and polish them though...and maybe sure you got a few extra pairs on hand for family and friends..okay i'm done...


Edited by durangojo - 11/16/11 at 6:54pm
post #60 of 75
11/16/11 at 7:46pm
Thread Starter 

Fitch Ratings is a global rating agency dedicated to providing value beyond the rating through objective and balanced credit opinions, research and data.  In short they're a boutique which rates offshore stuff.  They're very pessimistic about Europe.  Today was mostly good news about the US economy and iffy news about Europe.  The market was listening to the European news more than our own, and wasn't doing well until Fitch published a report at around 3 PM ET this afternoon.  Then it fell off a cliff.  

 

It's an interesting report, well reasoned, but perhaps a bit overdrawn in my opinion.  There are a few possible answers and none of them are very complicated but none of them are going to be popular with the electorates of those countries which bear the biggest burdens (one way or another), so politically difficult.  Nevertheless you can be pretty sure that the EU and EUB will do the minimum necessary to prevent complete chaos -- even if that will delay real recovery for many years.  They may not be the strongest, most decisive group in history but they're not complete idiots and they don't want the edifice to come crashing down any more than we do. 

 

  Accessing the report itself requires a subscription.  Here's Fitch's precis:

Eurozone Contagion Threatens Outlook for U.S. Banks

Though U.S. banks have manageable direct exposures to the stressed European markets (Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain), further contagion poses a serious risk, according to Fitch Ratings in a new report. Fitch believes that unless the Eurozone debt crisis is resolved in a timely and orderly manner, the broad credit outlook for the U.S. banking industry could worsen.

 

BDL

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