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The Market Sucks - Page 3  

post #61 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post

China has, shall we say, issues.  Whether they're just a passing cloud or the harbinger of a serious storm is unclear. 

 

Harbinger is a good word, isn't it?

 

You're too young to remember those halcyon days during the Reagan era, when the Japanese economy was forever and Americans wished themselves to be business samurai.  After that they all decided they wanted to be just like the Germans. 

 

At least we choose cultures with good food.  Embarrassing as it is to admit, I already have the silver mounted, inlaid chopsticks.

 

BDL

 

 

 

yes bdl, harbinger is a great word...much more so than dead canary!

joey

 

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

post #62 of 75

you know what really sucks migo?

a woman who lies on her food stamp application gets 4 years in jail and jon corzine who singlehanedly drove mf global into the ground and put his lover on the payroll while governor and lots of other nefarious things, gets nothing, nada, zip...what dark little corner is he hiding in like the raton he is? why shouldn't he be made accountable?.....what was the line in the movie 'wall street' ?... "it's unethical, but not illegal".....geez, at least madoff is behind bars!...

joey

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

post #63 of 75
Thread Starter 

durangojo,

 

You're singing my tune.  Poor people are simply not punished enough for being poor.  Take the three word phrase, "criminal justice system," and ask yourself which word does not belong.

 

BDL

What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
post #64 of 75

so perhaps a duet...a blues tune in the style of miles davis or mose allison..'the woe street blues"...could be funny and fun!  gotta say, you old guys rock!!!

joey

against all odds i vote for 'system'....

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

post #65 of 75

BDL, you are a brave man.  My money all came out back in 2001 because of naked shorts and other fraud.  I've never regretted a minute.

DD

post #66 of 75
Thread Starter 

Not that brave.  Most of my investment research time is spent in the fetal position, whimpering.

 

BDL


Edited by boar_d_laze - 12/5/11 at 5:40pm
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
post #67 of 75

My Captain My Sensei ... I refuse to hear such from you.  On another point though .......... 

 

 

santo_uni.jpg

 

Longtime Cubs icon gets a major honor

 

Nine-time All-Star Ron Santo's legacy gets a boost almost a year after his death.

 

(Sorry for the hyjack. This is just such a big thing for me it's like a great day in the market.)

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

post #68 of 75

I don't know much about economics, but isn't the US the king of debt?  Hasn't the US survived on debt, both as a country and as individuals? Isn't that how the government works, go way into debt and then go to war to pay it off?  Hasn't the US allowed banks to give people who can't afford it loans left and right for decades?  (Back in the 70s when I was married, you could get a mortgage for about 2 percent of your house's value here in Italy.  I call that cautious.). 

 

I had to wait years to get a credit card, and had to prove a reasonable income first.  College kids in the US get sent several credit cards each, which they don;t even have to ask for, already functional, so they can go into debt right away and learn the american way.  Then the credit card company is allowed to increase the interest at will!  Changing a contract mid stream.  That's even legal! (Who let THAT law go through i wonder, and who paid their campaign expenses?)

 

Pay people less and then make it easy for them to go into debt.  Good economics.  Cut their benefits and make them happy they don;t have to pay more taxes, deftly hiding the fact that the people cutting their benefits are the ones who should be paying the extra taxes, not them.  Good economics. 

But then, I don't know anything about economics. 

 

Bail out the banks and demand nothing in return.  That's supposed to be a "free market economy" - isn't that sort of a form of welfare for banks?  In a "free market economy" i thought that if your company was failing and some other company had the money to bail you out, they would also expect to have controlling shares in the company.  The government could have said, "ok, we bail you out, but you are ours!"  How many whiny banks would have gone to mama government then?  But i guess i don't know anything about economics. 

 

 


Edited by siduri - 12/6/11 at 5:31am
"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
"Siduri said, 'Gilgamesh, where are you roaming? You will never find the eternal life that you seek...Savour your food, make each of your days a delight, ... let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand and give your wife pleasure in your embrace.'"
post #69 of 75
Thread Starter 

 

I don't know much about economics, but isn't the US the king of debt? 

No.  Not even close.  The US has a very low debt/GDP ratio. 

 

Hasn't the US survived on debt, both as a country and as individuals?

The question isn't well framed, and difficult to answer without going to great and tedious length.

 

Isn't that how the government works, go way into debt and then go to war to pay it off?

No.  According to "Keynsian economics" there is a right time and a wrong time for governments to acquire debt. 

 

War typically leads to more debt, rather than the reverse.  "Typically" is probably too weak.  Offhand I can't think of any exceptions which don't involve seizing assets, something which doesn't really occur in the modern world.

 

In fact, one of the reasons the US annual budget deficit rose so much is because the Iraq war debt, which was originally "accounted" for as a "special, non-budget" expense, went "on the books" in 2009/2010. 

 

Hasn't the US allowed banks to give people who can't afford it loans left and right for decades?  (Back in the 70s when I was married, you could get a mortgage for about 2 percent of your house's value here in Italy.  I call that cautious.).

No.  Real estate loan credit requirements became very loose during the "bubble" period from around 2001 'til 2008 (when the bubble burst and credit contracted).  Those lax requirements were partly the result of an administration which considered a rise in home ownership rates as one of its metrics of success; but mostly as a result of greed and stupidity in the insurance, securities, and banking industries; and not just in the US. 

 

I'm not sure what point you're making about Italian banks.  Italian banks have almost no liquidity compared to debt, and the entire Italian banking industry was (or maybe still is) on the verge of systemic and catastrophic failure.  As a result, it seems likely that Italy (as well as some of the other weaker EU players) will be forced to institute "austerity" measures which will keep it in recession for a long, long time. 

 

I had to wait years to get a credit card, and had to prove a reasonable income first.  College kids in the US get sent several credit cards each, which they don;t even have to ask for, already functional, so they can go into debt right away and learn the american way.  Then the credit card company is allowed to increase the interest at will!  Changing a contract mid stream.  That's even legal! (Who let THAT law go through i wonder, and who paid their campaign expenses?)

The bank/credit industry does a lot of lobbying.  They spend a lot of money to make things come out their way.  Both US parties have a lousy record in this respect.  It's easier to point to the people who stood against it than to those who actively assisted.

 

Pay people less and then make it easy for them to go into debt.  Good economics. 

If you're saying easy credit increases personal debt, you're right.  And?

 

Cut their benefits and make them happy they don;t have to pay more taxes, deftly hiding the fact that the people cutting their benefits are the ones who should be paying the extra taxes, not them.  Good economics.

Sentences without definite subjects confuse me, but I do get what you're saying.  The poor simply can't be punished enough, while the rich require continuous rewards in order to enjoy their wealth.  Nothing is hidden deftly, or hidden at all unless you count transparent lies as "hiding."  People believe what they want to believe because they want to believe it.  That's human nature, not economics. 

 

Bail out the banks and demand nothing in return.  That's supposed to be a "free market economy" - isn't that sort of a form of welfare for banks? 

If the US government hadn't "bailed out the banks," the global credit crisis would have been far, far worse than it was.  I don't think "free market economy" applies.  Our economy, including the financial industry, has enjoyed a fair degree of regulation since the Great Depression.

 

In a "free market economy" i thought that if your company was failing and some other company had the money to bail you out, they would also expect to have controlling shares in the company.  The government could have said, "ok, we bail you out, but you are ours!"  How many whiny banks would have gone to mama government then? 

We don't have a completely "free market economy,"  but we do have a constitutional form of government.  The executive branch could and cannot nationalize the banks.  Congress could have passed laws making government aid more costly and consequential, but did not do so.  Had the US government not acted decisively and immediately to save the banks the global economic system would quite likely have failed and the entire world been thrown into massive depression. 

 

Unlike you, I wish they'd done more in the line of "bail outs," for instance saving Lehman.  Like you, I would have liked more and better regulation; would have liked the government to pick up more of the bad paper (to hasten the speed of recovery); would have liked a bigger stimulus package more directly targeted at infrastructure, etc., etc. 

 

You probably would have been happier with my solutions than with those provided by the people who actually made and make policy.  But we don't have me, we have the government we elected

 

But i guess i don't know anything about economics.

Because you're cursed with intelligence, good sense and a good heart there are a lot of things governments do which won't make sense.   

 

This has been an enjoyable thread, it would be a shame if it got shut down for "politics."

 

BDL


Edited by boar_d_laze - 12/6/11 at 11:30am
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
post #70 of 75

Perhaps if it remains educational it will escape shutdown.

 

Problems occur in discussing religion or politics when personal viewpoints surpass issues, and that is the predominant feature of internet opinions, most with a very loose connection to facts.

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
post #71 of 75

Europe is toast, Congress is full of self centered do nothings that can't decide on a bal budget. The stock mkt is full of people saying buy, buy, buy, then the next minute someone come up with "we will be in a depression in 2014" what the Hell !!!!!!!!!!!! This market is crazy, I can't see how anyone could Say we have a good future with all the head winds.....I'm out of the market until after the first of the year.....................I may be nuts, but I'm not crazy.......................ChefBillyB

post #72 of 75
Thread Starter 

Ice, yes to Ron Santos.  Sorry about the pathetic whimpering, but there you go.

 

Pete you're a sensible fellow.  A gentleman, actually.

 

Billy, Congress is under no obligation to pass a "balanced budget," and has only seldom done so in the last half century; iirc, '96 and '98.   Curious:  What happens after the first of the year? 

 

BDL


Edited by boar_d_laze - 12/6/11 at 9:04pm
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
post #73 of 75

HI BDL, in some countries its a law to have a balanced budget, sounds good to me, members of Congress could never balance a budget without stepping on toes in their own state. Congress may not have an obligation to pass a balanced budget but, we do have a moral obligation to future generations.

 

As far as being out of the Market until the first of the year, I hope to have  better picture on Europe, China's lower GDP to 6-7. I don't like the prices of stocks right now, I would like a lower entry point.......................take care and have a great holiday............................

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post

Ice, yes to Ron Santos.  Sorry about the pathetic whimpering, but there you go.

 

Pete you're a sensible fellow.  A gentleman, actually.

 

Billy, Congress is under no obligation to pass a "balanced budget," and has only seldom done so in the last half century; iirc, '96 and '98.   Curious:  What happens after the first of the year? 

 

BDL



 

post #74 of 75
Thread Starter 

In our form of government, a "balanced budget" requirement could only come as a Constitutional Amendment.  If there were such an Amendment, how would Congress be able to finance  emergency spending like wars? 

 

BDL

What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
post #75 of 75

Closing this down it is clearly stated we don't allow political or religious discussions here. 

Thanks,

Nicko 
ChefTalk.com Founder
All About Braising: The Art of Uncomplicated Cooking
All About Braising: The Art of Uncomplicated Cooking
Bacon (I made)
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Thanks,

Nicko 
ChefTalk.com Founder
All About Braising: The Art of Uncomplicated Cooking
All About Braising: The Art of Uncomplicated Cooking
Bacon (I made)
(26 photos)
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