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Looking to drop dough. - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Thread Starter 

So... Fujiwara FKM vs Tojiro DP

 

Qualities I'm looking for:

 

Will stand up to demanding kitchen use.

Bouncy, responsive knife with nice feel.

 

If all things are equal, I'd go with the Fujiwara as I am a line-cook not a day-job holder.

 

Questions I have about them:

 

Care and Use

Sharpening equipment

Honing equipment 

 

What considerations in terms of the petty, and what if anything else would I need to round out a scrappy cook's kit?

post #32 of 45

My own input will be general here... I often recommend Chad Ward's book, 'An Edge in the Kitchen' (and then give caveats -- things I disagree with, anyway).  But what is a really excellent, detailed chapter on sharpening in general, with plenty enough info on maintenance and honing, is available for free on his website here:  http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/  So have a look there.  (I took "care and use" to mean maintenance... if "use" actually means knife-skills, there are more recommendations for web-available instruction).

 

And plagiarizing my own post from another thread with the same considerations and questions:

 

A thread with the standard "best-of" beginners stones is here:  http://www.cheftalk.com/t/67134/first-set-of-waterstones

The honing rod -- look at the Idahone fine grit ceramic rod.  If you get it, don't drop it. Unless you know your longest knife is 8" and likely to be that for a while, get the 12".  It's only 3bucks more than the 10"; the rule of thumb is you want a rod that's at least 2" longer than your knife.


Flattening -- the expensive (and good) way is to get a DMT XXC (i.e., the Extra-extra-coarse) diamond stone.  The marginally better but more expensive way is the get the equivalent Atoma stone.  The less expensive way is to get some drywall screen (BDL has talked about that at some length, recently, on one of Luis' threads - here:  http://www.cheftalk.com/t/67399/quick-question-on-stone-flattening ).
 

post #33 of 45
Thread Starter 

Can anyone talk about using a sabatier for prep and on the line?

 

http://thebestthings.com/knives/sabatierstainless.htm

 

I'm leaning towards a four-star elephant sabatier, a fujiwara FKM petty as my initial work set- and a GOOD PEELER. 

post #34 of 45
Thread Starter 
post #35 of 45

Tabla this is just a thought, but since you seem to be "all over the place" with what my be your next knife while at the same time in dire need of a sharp edge for your livelihood you may want to consider getting that combo stone ASAP and pick one of the entry level brands you have discussed with the others already to get whatever piece(s) your missing so you can get to work, and then later at your leisure pick out what others or replacements you may want to buy down the road.

 

I think, well no I know from my own experience with this that you can take up a lot of time going over all the various brands, possibilities, and pro's and con's and that is going to mean a lot of time with that dexter you love so much :)

 

Your blisters will thank you

 

PS do not let the lower cost of the Tojiro fool you as the DP series I have are good performers, came with plenty of good recommendation (here and other forums) as a work horse, and despite the price and some downfalls compared to the much more expensive brands will get seriously sharp, and really hold the edge a good while. I like the Fujiwara I have also, but everyday you compare things and add to the list is another day without your new sharp knife.

 

PSS IMHO get the stone(s) you want/need, but go with BDL's suggestion for flattening with drywall sand paper as it works well, and costs pennies (sorry if he did not mention in this thread yet, but that was going to happen soon lol).

 

Hope that helps!!!

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

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"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #36 of 45
Sabatier carbons are great on the line, as long as you're the right kind of person. You can't put the knife down without wiping it. You do have to walk to the sink and rinse it often; use a steel several times per shift, and rub the knife down with baking soda every evening. But they get very sharp, need to go to the stones a little less often than most other knives, are very well priced, and have a profile that is among the very few very best (Masamoto and Konosuke are in the same class). It was THE knife for more than half a century, and still one of the greats. But now that good stainless knives are so available, carbon is not for everyone.

True about sharpening your Global. At this stage it really doesn't matter how you do it, as long as you do it (or have it done) to 15*. Like I said, a Rollsharp is good enough to be a hell of a lot better than what you have. A Norton 8" Combination India stone would be a great start. You could even take it to SLT and let them run it through their Chef's Choice (for way too much money). Just do it ASAP. A sharp knife will make your life so much easier.

If you're going to get water stones -- which sounds like the eventual plan -- yes to drywall screen as THE cost effective flattening method.

BDL
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post #37 of 45

tabla kid linked to Sab stainless; contra BDL's answer regarding the Sab carbons, BDL has answered before with recommendation against the Stainless simply based on the steel.  The profile is still the beautiful profile.

post #38 of 45
Sorry about the cabon confusion. Sab stainless? Compared to "typical" high-end Germans: significantly better ergonomics, equal alloy, lesser F&F, lesser hardening, lesser edge overall edge properties. Bottom Line: Don't bother. Top line Wusthof and Messers are overall probably better unless you really want a French profile and don't want a Japanese knife. I'm not sure about Henckels, it's been a long time since I looked at them and there has supposedly been improvement.

Overall, despite the profile, not much better than R. H. Forschner, and significantly more expensive. Similarly priced to Fujiwara/Tojiro, but nowhere near as good.

BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze - 9/25/11 at 7:47am
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post #39 of 45
Thread Starter 

Oh I have a roll over so I'm good with the global until my new knives come.  Decided to go with the a Tojiro DP (wa handle) 240mm chef's knife, a fujiwara FKM 120mm petty, tojiro shears, and a bester set of stones.  I've been all over the place because I've gone in the course of a week from a home cook foodie to a line-cook in the course of a couple of weeks.  Thanks for the heads up on the drywall sandpaper.

 

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/3pcstoneset.html 

 

Are things like these useful?

 

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/chshgu.html

post #40 of 45
Thread Starter 

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/anglecube.html

 

would either that or the guide help me to get a correct angle before I can just do it naturally?

post #41 of 45

After clicking the link I was onto that angle cube pretty quickly as well.

 

I think either way would be fine, and even though I am sure you would figure it out with out them (hey just look at all the really good help available here, and yea some of these guys are really good) if it gives you the confidence you may not otherwise have then why not.

 

I had also looked over the edge guides when making my initial purchase, but decided against it for some reason I can not remember, but I am finding the angle cube an interesting product (just be careful if you play the vid on the page as it is like watching paint dry for 9 minutes lol) and looks like it should be very useful as well.

 

Since the angle measuring equipment I do have is too large to get really accurate readings on a knife blade this tool would be really helpful in not only initial angle setting on the stone, but also for checking edges after sharpening or even before as well.

 

One question I do not have an answer to is if the stainless or even some of the semi stainless steels used in most knives is magnetic enough to hold the cube in place on the blade?

 

Going to have to check on this one.

 

Far as your knife selection I think you will be happy, and also will be able to compare two very popular steels for ease of sharpening, sharpness and edge retention etc. which will be a good thing when it comes time to add to your set as you will have some points for comparison when looking at more expensive knives.

 

Being a home cook now I actually went the opposite with the Fuji Gyuto, and Tojiro petty due to there being a cost savings this way and my not needing or having as much concern with the edge retention difference on the main knife.

 

Also if I was to get back into a commercial kitchen again I think these are near the top of the price range I would want to use until I was very comfortable with coworkers and lost fear of potential loss.

 

Be sure to keep everyone posted on what you think when you receive your order!

 

 

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #42 of 45
Thread Starter 

New thread, this one served its purpose.

 

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/67528/my-new-kit

post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by tabla kid View Post

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riknad24.html

 

Alternative I found.


This may be a bit late but I absolutely love the Addict!  Disclosure:  I've sharpened some of the for Mark @ CKtG and those blades can be purchased from him.  Setting that aside I will say I loved them so much I kept one for myself!  The original factory edge is acceptable to most but not great.  And it's a lot of work to cut the initial bevel!  The first one took me three and a half hours to sharpen.  After that I switched to a DMT for the rough work on the others and things went much better.  After the initial sharpening I used my Addict exclusively at work, and the knife went 5 weeks in a pro kitchen before I felt the need to switch it out for another knife.  That's good edge retention!  I will admit that I wasn't using it to cut a lot of raw meats, though.

 

While I agree with BLD most of the time he & I must agree to disagree re the Hiromoto AS.  I love mine!  It takes a spectacular edge and I simply like the looks.  It's a bit heavy for a J-knife but still much nimbler than a German.

 

Lastly I'd be in danger of losing my fanboy status if I didn't toss in a recommendation for the Kagayaki CarboNext.  It's probably my favorite knife under $200. 

 

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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post #44 of 45
Loads of people I respect like the AS, some don't. Many people don't like san-mai knives of any sort because it feels "dead" and "damped" on the board and in the cut. Phaedrus knows a lot of them respects the viewpoint even if he doesn't share it. More like san-mai or at least aren't bothered by it than those who don't like it, it's just one of those things.

I'm also not in love with Hiromoto chefs' comfort and handling. We had two Hiromoto cooks knives for several months and didn't find those to be anywhere near the level of the old Sabatiers we' planned to replace.

I don't think it's a bad knife; just that there are knives in the same price range which feel better in the hand and on the board with as or nearly as-good edge properties. When I talk about the AS I always mention that it's generally well loved, and always have Phaedrus in mind when doing so. It doesn't really matter, but I much prefer the (solid steel) Hiromoto G3. It's not in my top two or three at its price, I usually don't bring it up.

Differences of opinions make for horse races,
BDL
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post #45 of 45

I have my favorites among both the laminates and the monosteels.  In the san-mai group I'm a huge fan of the Akifusa gyuto (one of my most used daily drivers).  But I suppose just by coincidence the rest of my favorites are constructed of one steel.  Right up there with my Akifusa I'd have list the Kagayaki CarboNext and the Ichimonji TKCs.  When I had my Hattori KF/FH I really loved it, too.  I judge every one on a knife-by-knife basis.

 

I've never handled a Hiro G3.  I almost bought one but once I tried a few CN's it's been hard to justify spending more on a knife I probably won't like as much.  If the G3 version is the same as the AS in shape/feel/handing then I'd say the CN is a better knife...at least in my hands.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
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