Rice Pudding

I'm certainly no expert on rice pudding, but it sounds like an issue of not enough liquid.  Have you tried cooking the rice in water (2 parts water, 1 part rice) and then proceeding with the recipe?  Of course, then you would have to cut down on the amount of milk you are using (if it was originally supposed to take place of the water).  When I make rice pudding, I always use left over rice from the night before, so I never have the crunchy problem.  The idea of pumpkin rice pudding sounds great.  I am glad you brought it up.  It inspired me to do a quick search online for a similar recipe to what you have.  I found one on foodnetwork.com:  http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ellie-krieger/pumpkin-rice-pudding-recipe/index.html  .  I think it begins by cooking the rice in water.  Hope this helps.

How long did you let the rice sit after cooking?

A couple of rules of thumb:  First:  You keep cooking until you get the texture you want.  You can cook it down til it's congee, if that's your heart's desire.  So, next time make with the patience.  Second:  Letting the cooked rice rest is a part of making most rice puddings.  During the rest, as long as there's enough liquid, it will get plumper and softer and the starch will stiffen the liquid.  All good things.  Start the rice an hour sooner, so it can rest.  If you want it warm, reheat it.

FWIW 1:  Your biggest problem is that you're not using nearly enough liquid.  By way of example, a typical kheer (a fairly loose, Indian style rice pudding) is about 4 cups milk to 1/4 cup rice.  For your 1/3 cup, a full 6 cups of milk is more like it.

"Day before" is among the most powerful phrases of cooking thaumaturgy.   

FWIW, making rice pudding with rice which has been pre-cooked in water is a whole 'nother thing.  The idea of "left over" rice for pudding doesn't excite me, because it implies the rice has been cooked in water.   But lots of puddings are made with rice which was precooked in water.  Ultimately it won't be as creamy, but at least you'll get the right texture.

BDL

KK, a creamy rice pudding can be made in several ways. Let's rule the pumpkin out for now. You can virtually use any kind of rice, but many times "broken rice" is used, which is nothing else than long grain rice that's... broken, let's say second choice longgrain rice. That's mostly the kind of rice used in canned rice pudding but, don't know about the US, over here it's for sale everywhere and known as rice for making rice pudding. This kind of rice will lose it's starch easier compared to perfect rice.

Not broken rice will need a little more liquid. Longgrain some less than round rice that can have a lot of liquid.

Normally, for making rice pudding, you would use a ratio of 1:4 or even 1:5 rice/liquid for making rice pudding. Just one cup of rice will produce a lot of rice pudding. Compared to cooking rice for daily savory dishes, that's a lot more than the 1:1,5 ratio used. Let's say 1:4 is perfect when using traditional longgrain rice, including Thai Jasmin, Basmati etc. Italian arborio (my favorite) is perfect too, but you will need a 1:5 ratio.

You can use only milk (I always use full fat milk) or a low fat combinations like water/milk or... 2:1 ratio water/coconut milk. Heat the mixture but do NOT sugar it! You can flavor the liquid first with anything you like; cinnamon, lemon grass, cracked green kardemom pods, kaffirleaves etc. Let infuse for a while and sieve. Still no sugar! Now add the rice and let simmer on low fire until all liquid is absorbed. You may need to gently fold the mixture a few times later in the cooking process (around 45 minutes or more!)! Cooking the rice without the sugar will however prevent burning. Put the soft rice in a plastic container and let cool, then put in your fridge.

You will now have quite a stiff mass of rice. But, here comes the real secret. Whisk (around the same amount of rice you used) cream with sugar until it's not too ferm. Fold that in the rice mass. You're done. The rice will no longer ferm up, no matter how long you keep it in the fridge... You can ad extra sugar just before eating it. Try some rice pudding with soft darkbrown sugar! Of course, if you like to mix some pumpkin puree in, please do.

I cook my rice in water first,drain it and then steep it in milk and sugar

The egg makes a lot of sense, but two eggs would make more.  Temper them, first so they don't curdle.  I know your natural tendency after tempering eggs for a hot rice mixture is to find chicken soup and a lemon, but restrain yourself.

For rice pudding, typical liquid to rice ratios are usually 8:1 or more start to finish.  16:1 isn't unusual for a "soupy" dessert like kheer. 

You can break your own broken rice if you like.  Soak rice in water for a couple of hours, then rub it between your fingers. You can also break it dry, in a mortar.  Either way, you want to break each grain into four or five pieces.

Jasmine rice doesn't make good pudding.  It gets gooey and clumps.  Trust me.

You won't burn the sugar if you cook the sweetened liquid at a bare simmer.  I'm not sure you can burn sugar in milk anyway; at least not without severely scorching the milk. 

I've never tried it, but bet you could do a heck of a rice pudding in a slow cooker.

I've never heard of cooking the rice until it's dry, then adding cream after it's cold.  I don't see how the cream would cook into the rice, or the starch would thicken the cream and hold everything together, but that's me.  Chris seems to be onto something new.

BDL

Why would anyone use basmatti or jasmin or  sushi  or for that matter any other expensive rice when making rice pudding which was first made as an inexpensive dessert to feed the masses???  In fact the less expensive rices make for a better consistancy in rice pudding.

(Click the image to enlarge)

My own choice of rice is depending on the occasion. An everyday ricepudding made with broken rice is very acceptable. I use other rice for more festive occasions. The rice in the image was arborio, generally known to release a lot of starch. I'm very convinced your Bomba would be perfect too in a 1:5 ratio.

Contrary to what BDL oracles, Thai Jasmin is absolutely fine (trust me, I made it already) and delicious like in an "Asian" inspired style of ricepudding; cook rice in water/coconutmilk, but infuse the mixture first with lemongrass, kardemom, ...etc. Sieve and then add the rice. BTW, vanilla, infused first in the milk, is very addictive in any ricepudding.

The suggestion to make your own broken rice is hilarious! Broken rice is for sale as rice for ricepuddings as I already explained, it's a waist product in the production of longgrain rice, which makes it very cheap. That's probably the type of rice Ed refers to, it's indeed the very cheapest rice available everywhere...

The ratios I mentioned are perfect and you will still recognize the soft ricegrains, unless of course you want to make a "soup".

Do cook your rice in milk, but look out for the rice that tends to form a layer that tries to stick to the bottom while simmering. Stir (the word "fold" is more appropriate) very gently to detach from the bottom.

The trick with adding sugared whipped cream is not new at all, but it's definately very efficient! The whipped cream gets almost entirely absorbed by the cold stiff rice and will loosen the whole ricemass. It will no longer stiffen, even when in your fridge for a few days!

One important tip; always measure your components! I use a simple coffeecup to measure.

I haven't had good results with ordinary "jasmine" rice; it gets clumpy so I stopped using it.  Your results may be different.  Thai "fragrant rice," though has worked very well.  Which reminds me, we're nearly out.  I like using medium grain Cal-Rose type rices as well as long grain rices a lot.  "Glutinous" rice is tricky, but sticky-gooey different.  There are other factors at work with how rice behaves besides variety.  Old rice works different than new rice.  Rice that's been kept dry with talc needs soaking (or at least rinsing), and that changes things around, etc. 

Per Ed, I tend not to use expensive rice for the various types of rice pudding. 

If you can find broken rice in your supermarket, more power to you.  Finding it, for most Americans, can represent something of a schlepp.  I can get it easily enough, but we've already got enough rice choices around here that buying and storing one more is more trouble than its worth.  When I want broken rice, I usually give the rice a spin in the molcajete -- which is always on the counter -- unless the blender is also out.  Yes, I forgot to mention the blender in a previous post.  Breaking rice isn't much of a chore.   easy.  A month ago I saw a you tube video of Pakistani ladies breaking their own rice with their fingers (after soaking the rice), it impressed me.

BDL

Well I made some today from broken rice, just for fun, this thread made me do it!

I had the rice in the pantry but just look for the cheapest rice on the shelf, that may well be broken rice (look also in the first picture). I used 1 cup of rice and 4,5 cups of full fat milk and some homemade vanilla essence. Simmered on a very, very low fire but there was still some stuck to the bottom which is very common when making this stuff.

The rice has to be completely soft, just not falling apart imo, but all depends on how you like it of course. The first picture shows how it comes out, a stiff mass, where all liquid has been absorbed. I let it cool at room temperature, then whisk 3/4 cup of cream with 2 tbsp of plain white sugar. Fold it in and the structure changes completely in something utterly delicious. "Simple comme bonjour" as they say.

I drizzled this dessert sauce over it, made from "cuberdons", a Belgian candy, protected regional product. The candy is a soft cone having a syrupy content with a distinct raspberry flavor.

KKV, there are lots of other recipes, I know some people make rice pudding in their oven. I'm sure other forummembers have fantastic recipes, I would love to hear them too.

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I get the broken rice at the  Dollar Store. A lot of people buy rice there cause it is cheap, they don't evenrealize it is broken and whole mixed.

A long time ago when whipped cream was folded in to the pudding it was called RiceChantilly on the menu.

      Some places even more imbelished it and it beacame Rice Impertrice  or Rice Pudding Imperial. Pastry cream, whipped cream and ground apricot folded in and made into a bomb or charlotte form.

hi all,

although not 'technically' a rice pudding here's the one my italian grandmother use to make....i'll just give ingredients.....called 'nana's pastina pudding', she used pastina(very small pasta usually used  in soups), milk, sugar, raisins, toasted almonds and some kind of liqueur...when i made it i used tuaca, cuz i love it and it has all the great nuances i like...orange, vanilla etc. the pasta was boiled together with the milk and the sugar then heat lowered, raisins added til pasta was tender and the pudding was creamy. almonds added and a little more milk...i, of course use heavy cream or 1/2 & 1/2 just cuz that's what i usually have on hand......we always had it with these italian pignoli cookies.....

joey

which was first made as an inexpensive dessert to feed the masses

Maybe it evolved into that, Ed. But it certainly wasn't originated for that purpose. In the 16- and 1700s rice was expensive, and rice pudding was only found on upscale tables.

KY, this may interest you!

I remember when I was only a few years old, one of our aunts made a rice pudding using vanilla custard powder from *"Dr. Oetker". I never forgot that taste, but I never saw any recipe. This is what a Google search revealed; a rice pudding "Breughel" style. Remember, this painter lived in my region and illustrated village life in the 15 century. Here's a painting from a wedding, serving... rice pudding (around 1565).

Another search revealed also that rice was already grown in ànd available from Italy in the 15th century and even earlier coming from Spain! (quote from a historician). Seems even saffron and vanilla were used in those days!

Rice pudding Breughel style

130gr rice/ 50gr butter/ 500ml water/ 500 ml milk/ 100gr sugar/ 2 sachets of vanilla sugar/ 1 pinch of salt/ 50gr vanilla custard powder

Rince the rice in water and let leak out. Melt the butter and stir rice in. Add water and bring to a boil. After 15 minutes, add the milk and let simmer on very low fire. Add sugar, vanilla sugar and the salt. Dissolve the vanilla custard powder in a little cold milk and add to the ricemixture while stirring. Pour on a tray and leave to cool? Serve with soft darkbrown sugar.

(*)About the vanilla custard powder; any brand will do. Look at the ingredient list and you will find out that the main ingredient is Maizena, aka cornstarch. I don't think Dr. Oetker was around in the 1500ths.

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Nice post, Chris.

Note that it was being served at a wedding service---a special event. And note, too, how the guests are dressed. Hardly the stuff of peasants and the masses.

Rice was being imported into Europe almost as soon as the trade with China began. Later on it was imported into North America until they started growing it in the Carolinas. Still and all, it was an expensive product (as was sugar, for that matter), grown as much for export as for domestic consumption.

Hannah Glasse provides a recipe for A Carolina Rice Pudding in her 1745, London-published, The Art of Cookery Made Plain and Easy, for instance.

Mary Randolph has two recipes in her The Virginia Housewife; one called Rice Milk For A Dessert, which is actually a pudding which, she suggests, can be made in small molds, turned out in a dish and surrounded with milk that has raspberry marmalade stirred into it. Again, a rather upscale dish.

Her other recipe is rather modern:

Rice Pudding

Boil half a pound of rice in milk, until it is quite tender; beat it well with a wooden spoon to mash the grains; add three quarters of a pound of sugar, and the same of melted butter; half a nutmeg, six eggs, a gill of wine, and some grated lemon peel; put a past in the dish, and bake it. For change, it may be boiled, and eaten with butter, sugar, and wine.

Mary Randolph ran a boarding house and restaurant in Richmond that caters to the first families of Virginia, and her cookbook is directed to others of that social status.

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer 

KY,

There are some underlying assumptions in to the "16- 1700s rice was expensive" remark that may or may not apply to the general thesis.  How expensive was rice in the 17th and 18th Centuries?  Where?  Everywhere?  Or somewhere in particular?  Expensive compared to what?  Where was rice grown? 

Where was rice pudding popular?  Where did it originate?  When? 

What about the economics of milk?  Was there some benefit to cooking it before the onset of Pasteurization, which made cooked milk desserts economical? 

The same sorts of questions go to Ed as well. 

BDL

Not assumptions, BDL. Actual facts of life.

Trying to establish relative costs between now and then is an excercise in futility because the numbers don't mean anything. Plus there often are complete reversals of what things were worth, then and now. Examples would be cotten vs linen, and foodstuffs like lobster. So you have to look at value comparisons of the time.

There were, primarily, three slave-dependent crops in the 18th century south: Tobacco, in the Chesapeake; Rice, in the Lowlands; and Cotton in the Gulf States. Of the three, rice was the most profitable. Lowland planters were the most wealthy in the colonies. High profits, then and now, result from high prices as compared to production costs.

American rice actually originated in Africa. Slaves were essential not only because of the labor pool they provided, but because of their prior knowledge of rice cultivation. For various reasons, that one included, slaves involved in rice growing actually were self-supervised. They set their own work schedules, lived rather freely, and had no overseers. This is rather unique in 18th century southern agriculture.

Rice has been grown in South Carolina since 1680, and production grew with the growth of slavery. A look at exports shows the correlation: Charleston exported 10,000 lbs in 1698. That figure increased to 20 million pounds by 1730. I'll leave the number of slaves for those years as an exercise for the student.

While we find rice dishes (including rice pudding) in period cookbooks and manuscripts (all of which represent cookery of the well-to-do), I have never seen rice mentioned as part of the foods used by plain folks.

Also, talking about assumptions, you're making one with milk that is probably unjustified. In Amelia Simmons'  American Cookery, the first American cookbook, published in 1796, there are six recipes for rice pudding. One of them is designated "a cheap one." It's primary difference is that it doesn't contain eggs, as the other five do. American Cookery, it should be noted, was written to be used by domestics who cooked for the upper classes.

As to where it was popular: I can't speak for the northern colonies, where it may or may not have been popular. But it was tremendously so among the well-to-do in the American south and in England. A relevant item of interest: in the puddings section of Thomas Jefferson's cookbook, the first four recipes deal with rice; three of them are rice puddings (including a French version---no surprise there), and one for a sauce to go with the Gateau au Riz. Whether that placement indicates anything deponent sayeth not.

Huge assumptions.  Who said anything about the North American Colonies?  Ed didn't.  What do the Colonies, and Colonial times have to do with Ed's statement about rice pudding originally being an inexpensive dessert for the "masses?"  Rice pudding didn't originate here.

Wherever and whenever it originated, it's safe to say that when and when and where rice, dairy and sweeteners like sugar were plentiful, rice pudding was cheap.  Where and when they were scarce, it was not.

For the little it's worth, I don't think Ed's remark was particularly well founded.

BDL

Chris, thank you showing the painting, it brings back lovely memories of Ghent.

Out of curiosity I took a look in several of my old cookbooks to find recipes for Rice Pudding. One book is from 1884 ("Practical Cooking and Dinner Giving" p. New York), the other from 1892 ("The Everyday Cookbook" p. Chicago). Both books mention that Rice Pudding is a 'plain' or 'economical'. Interestingly, both books contain recipes for rice pudding made with ground rice; but I can't tell if they mean actual ground rice (as in rice flour), or simply broken rice.

The most common ratio in all of the recipes is about 1 cup (one "teacup") of rice to two quarts of milk. All recipes have sugar added...some have eggs, and one that I'm tempted to try has egg yolks added to the initial custard (made with previously cooked rice), and a meringue ("froth") made with the egg whites and sugar placed on top and then baked until a "delicate color" is achieved.

There are several recipes for desserts made with plain boiled rice which is allowed to get cold, and is then molded and turned out, served with various sauces including a chocolate sauce. Many recipes are flavored with lemon, (as in my favorite Jane Grigson recipe for rice pudding, which calls for adding additional cream after the pudding cools).

Fascinating subject.

Don't know about 16th century, or did not say when and where it was invented  All I know is that since I was a kid it was a cheap dessert used to feed the masses as was leftover bread pudding, indian pudding, choco pudding, vanilla, butterscotch in fact almost all puddings at least in my generation. The rice was cheap enough to throw at the bride and groom too. Then the birds and squirrels ate it.

OK. So I made some rice pudding in a shelter kitchen last week that had all the angles for me. It was east, tasty and cheap. Simple recipe too. Sushi rice, on sale from a guy I know, left over coffee creamer, big pot, big spoon, little bowls and little spoons. We cooked up the rice 1.5:1 w/r, when finished and still hot we stirred in the creamer. Different batches for different flavors. It was a walk in the park. Over 200 servings for less than 8-cents a serving. 

Thats my point inexpensive good easy dessert for the masses.  And various flavor coffee creamers make great dessert sauces when thickened with a bit of starch or arrowroot.

All I know is that since I was a kid it was a cheap dessert used to feed the masses

So, Ed, are you now saying that rice pudding originated when you were a kid?  After all, you originally said, was first made as an inexpensive dessert to feed the masses. Only way to reconcile the two statements would be if rice pudding was made for the first time sometime in the 1940s.

 it's safe to say that when and when and where rice, dairy and sweeteners like sugar were plentiful, rice pudding was cheap.

Pretty obvious statement, BDL. But it doesn't mean anything unless you can show us when and where, previous to the late 19th century, those conditions prevailed. And that the people who lived then/there were inclined to combine those ingredients to feed the masses.

Sherbel, Ghent is indeed a fun town. The "cuberdon" candy shown in one of my previous posts is a regional product from the Ghent area. Last week I was in Ghent (it's only a 30 minutes drive away) and bought some famous Tierentyn mustard at their shop. As usual they scooped it from a wooden barrel with a gigantic wooden spoon into a jar. It's a dark mustard that clears your sinuses, pronto. What a taste!

But, back on subject, indeed there are so many recipes. I would guess the rice in your recipes is indeed some kind of a rice flour or more likely a rice semolina (from semi=half and mola(latin)=mill and molina=milled) to produce a smooth consistency. I'm sure it can thicken a lot of liquid, a bit like polenta.

Love the meringue topping, not unusual in desserts, even nowadays. Remember omelette sibérienne, aka baked Alaska?

KY, you're right about the Breughel wedding painting, it could well have been "upper class". Interesting but totally not scientifical; the website mentions a very typical saying in our country that says "when you're dead, you go to heaven and eat rice pudding every day from golden spoons". We all found it a stupid meaningless saying when we were kids, but as they say in the website, it may well be a saying that's centuries old and refers to how people looked at rice pudding in those times, more like something very uncommon and out of reach, certainly not for the rural community.

In Breughel's days, rice, sugar, saffron and vanilla were indeed all quite exotic.

I understand Ed too. My first contact with rice was in a dessert (early fifties). That may be what Ed was trying to say in "was first made...etc. ? Savory dishes served with rice came lots of years (read decades!) later.

I've always seen rice pudding as a very comforting democratic dessert. Many bakeries in my country will have rice tartes available, even in slices,... every single day! They're made with rice pudding, eggyolk and of course baked in a pastry shell.

Iceman; absolutely love that no-nonsense approach! And I'm sure it was delicious.

I am not a Philadelphia Lawyer and do not know about 16th century was not around then never saw it then maybe you did ,nor did I say it was or was not invented there

 I said in my generation it was a cheap ,dessert to feed the masses. Don't care where it came from or who ate it I have better things to do then to agrree or disagree with its orgin

KY,

By way of merely one example:

[Emphasis mine]  A Historical Dictionary of Indian Food, K. T. Achaya [Oxford University Press:Delhi] 1998 (p. 130)

BDL

BDL

  When I was in Iceland they ate a boiled milk disk called Skeer I wonder if that word came from Kheer. Both cooked, both of milk. Skeer reminded me of a yogurt custard. It was good had plain only did not see flavors.(that was back in 80s though) Went to someones house they put already cooked rice  and spice in it and served in a brown edge cookie cup.