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UGH. So frustrated with knife shopping, I am ready to just get a Victorinox Fibrox and be done... - Page 2

post #31 of 50
12/10/11 at 4:51pm

I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't like knives with a thick bolster extending to the blade-it interferes with sharpening near the heel end and makes it difficult if not impossible to thin the blade near the heel.

 

 

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post #32 of 50
12/10/11 at 7:23pm

BDL has written about this previously:

 

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/60100/mac-pro-vs-mac-chef-series

 

I have both a Mac Pro 240mm and a Mac Chef series 8" Chef's knife (as opposed to their 8.5" gyotu).  Maybe the gyotu is different, but I don't find the 8" Chef that I have to be particularly whippy.  It feels just as stiff as the Pro. I use the Chef model as part of my traveling, camping knife set (time share units and rentals invariably have terrible knives) and it has performed admirably in the 8 years or so that I've had it.  The Pro is still a better knife.  Better F&F, handle and has a bolster.  Seems to sharpen a bit better than the Chef (as BDL has indicated) although sharpening the Chef hasn't been a problem.  I haven't had the Pro long enough to reasonably opine on how well it holds an edge compared to the Chef series knife - I sharpened the Pro when I got it 3 or so months ago and once since then.  I have a fair number of knives and it is in rotation with others - so none get heavy use, and sharpening for each knife is therefore infrequent.  I understand that the Pro steel is different and better than that used in the Chef series.  I also have a Tojiro DP (240mm would be same price as a Mac Chef 10"), and I think it is a better knife than the Mac Chef series knife.  Has bolster and the F&F on the one I have is quite decent.  The handle, although a bit blocky, works just fine for me (pinch grip).  Spine could be rounded a bit, but that's an easy fix.  San Mai construction doesn't bother me.  I think if I were to choose between a Mac Chef Series and the Tojiro DP, I'd take the Tojiro.  I'd also get the 240 mm rather than anything smaller.

 

mac knife small.jpg

 

 


Edited by pohaku - 12/10/11 at 9:21pm
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post #33 of 50
12/11/11 at 1:30am
Thread Starter 

Pohaku, you read my mind :) Those were the two I was choosing between in the final steps, now I have chosen, ty!

 

Ok, so for the serrated, I am getting

http://www.bestkitchenknives.com/bakers-bread-cake-knife-forschner-victorinox.html?source=googprod If this isn't the one you recommended BDL, let me know. Also, if anyone knows a better price (including shipping cost!) let me know :)

 

I am going for the Tojiro DP, 240 mm. Best price I found was http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todpchkn24.html Once again, if anyone knows of a better price, please let me know!

 

I am also thinking of getting something like a cleaver or a cheap chef for all those dirty jobs I don't want to risk screwing up my nice new knife doing. Suggestions? Something cheap, but reliable and usable.

 

Finally, I need waterstones or a sharpening system. Suggestions for good value whet stones or kits?

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post #34 of 50
12/11/11 at 6:51am

So today is the day.  Did you pull the trigger--yet?

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post #35 of 50
12/11/11 at 11:28am
Thread Starter 

As soon as I figure out the last two things, the whetstone and some sort of cleaver or cheap 'dirty job' knife, I will order it all. Everything is sitting in a shopping cart waiting :p

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post #36 of 50
12/11/11 at 12:20pm

That Forschner actually is the bread knife I recommend, in fact I bought the Rosewood version (same blade, wood handle) for my daughter's birthday.  I said 10-1/2" instead of 10.25".  So sue me.  What's a quarter inch between friends? 

 

Since you've decided to go with water stones, I think your budget would prefer starting with a fairly inexpensive combi stone like the Norton 1K/4K (under $60), and a pack of 3M drywall screen for flattening ($11 at Home Depot for a many-year supply).  After a year or so when you've learned to sharpen and the combi is starting to wear, you can step up to more and better if you like.

 

Speaking of which, at some point you're going to need a coarse stone for profile and repair... but not until you can make the 1K and 4K surfaces sing.  Coarse stones can do a lot of damage quickly if you can't hold a stable, consistent angle.

 

Tips: 

  • You have to flatten new stones and chamfer their edges before using them. 
  • Start with drywall screen instead of a "flattening stone."
  • If your stones don't come mounted or in a case which may be used as a stand (like the Norton), you don't need a stone holder, you can put your water stone(s) on non-slip drawer liner or a towel. 
  • Learn the "burr method" of sharpening; i.e., raise a burr, chase the burr, deburr.
  • Start with the Magic Marker Trick and the idea that you're going to have to learn to feel the burr.
  • It takes a while to learn how to hold an angle.  Be patient with yourself.  Nome wasn't built on a bay.  Or whatever. 
  • Learn confidence and competence with the 1K before trying the 4K.  Learn competence and confidence with the 4K before ordering a coarse stone.

 

BDL

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post #37 of 50
12/11/11 at 12:23pm
Thread Starter 

When it comes to water stones, are there inherently 'bad' brands I should look out for? Or does it really not matter as long as it is a 1k/4k combo?

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post #38 of 50
12/11/11 at 1:02pm
Thread Starter 

Found a 1k/6k for a really good price: http://www.amazon.com/Woodstock-SteeleX-D1130-Japanese-Waterstone/dp/B0000DD2C9/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323636192&sr=8-1

 

Is 6k too fine?

 

ETA: I also realized the honing rod I have to too short for the new knife. I am wary of taking a ceramic rod to work, as it is likely to break. I am not sure what I should be looking for in a honing rod... diamond is too rough, right? I mean, is there that much difference between a $10 steel and a $30 steel when it comes to non-ceramic?

 

I will poke around the forums a bit and see if I can find some more info myself, but if anyone has some info to share here, please do!


Edited by Imaya - 12/11/11 at 1:35pm
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post #39 of 50
12/12/11 at 12:48am
Thread Starter 

Ok, ordered the Tojiro and the bread knife! Also picked up a couple of tools I needed and some edge guards for the new knives. Also... I am sure my hand is going to get slapped for this... but I ordered an edge guide too >.< It is by Tojiro, so it should guide me to the angle my knife was meant to have. I don't want it to be a crutch, but I really am worried about messing up my knife. If anyone has strong opinions against using a guide, I have until tomorrow morning to remove it from my order!

 

I still am not sure what kind of 'dirty jobs' knife I should get. I am debating between a Victorinox Fibrox 8" or some sort of cleaver. I am afraid the cleaver may be overkill, and the Victorinox is not versatile enough to ever see much use, since I already have a chef knife. I am wondering if maybe I should grab a shitty knife from home as a backup...? Anyways, I found the Norton stone on Amazon for 50 bucks, best price. So whatever cheap knife I get, I will get from there.

 

The one last silly thing is a way to mark my knives. I don't want to damage them, so I think I will go with stickers on the handle with a bit of clear packing tape over them to protect them. Any better ideas? I tried to find magnets, but didn't really see anything I liked, though I imagine the flat ones will stick on a knife blade pretty darn well. I also debated some sort of small charm on the end of the handle, but unsure how to attach it. A small hole drilled in the handle would work if the knife is a rat tail tang, but I hesitate to modify a new expensive knife like that! I don't really want to use stickers, because the water will mess them up quickly, and the sticker glue will just end up all over my hands and on the knife, making a huge mess. But, if someone knows how to make this work, or maybe some sort of better laminate to put over the sticker, I am all ears! I ordered some high quality small vinyl decals, so I will see how those survive :p

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post #40 of 50
12/12/11 at 12:48am

A knife I really like is the F.Dick 1905 series.  Check it! It's quite light, very strong, retains a nice edge, and isn't outrageously expensive.  It's also quite nice to look at.

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post #41 of 50
12/12/11 at 12:34pm

While I got my daughter Wusthof Classic as a bash around knife, it was only because I got it cheap and I sharpen.  A Forschner is cheap and would do just fine in that role.  Pretty hard to beat for the price.

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post #42 of 50
12/15/11 at 1:29am
Thread Starter 

Every day this week I rip apart sandwiches and saw through lettuce with my faberware serrated knife from home, I count down the days until my real knives get here XD Very excited, will post pics and a review after I have some time with them!

 

Anyways, I guess I should post actual links and such to what I got :p

 

Tojiro DP, 240mm

 

Victorinox Fibrox 10.25" bread knife

 

Blade guards

 

Pie server and Tongs (GREAT prices! I have a better sense of what is needed on the job now, and a pie server I KNOW is there, as well as an extra pair of tongs, are vital)

 

Tojiro sharpening guide

 

CIA masters 7" Fillet knife (I actually got it for $20, but I think it was the last one left, as the link to the page where I got it no longer works :p It is my toss around and dirty jobs knife! I wanted something with more flexibility than just another chef knife, so I think this fits well!)

 

Pocket Thermometer

 

Shears for work, steel and knife block for home (it was too good of a price to pass up ;))

 

Norton 1k/4k combo water stone (which my aunt is giving me SHIT about, saying I paid too much and she has a whetstone that is just as good from years ago that only cost 3 dollars at the mom and pop hardware store. >.<)

 

Also found good prices on miscellaneous personal kitchen stuff, like harder to find spices and some nice, large, glass vacuum jars.

 

 

Now, for marking my tools, I have a few ideas. My first ones were to go with what the girl who is training me is doing. She just put some flashy zebra striped tape on all her stuff. Easy. So I grabbed some stickers from amazon, thinking I could seal them on with some clear packing tape or something? In case that didn't work, I got a pack of stupid little rubber charms I could tie on the end of the handle with fishing line or something. Wasn't crazy about either of those ideas, but they will work for now. Thought briefly of engraving the handle, but I dont want to create a rough spot that will rough up my hand from repeated use. Then... I had the BEST idea!

 

This is where I need help ;) I was recently given a good sized supply of enamel paints. I am a painter and artist, it is what I have my bachelor's degree in (fine art). So! I want to custom paint my handles with enamels! I haven't worked with enamels much beyond a few models as a kid, so I need some help making this work on knives! Will I need to prep these handles with anything special? Sand them or anything a bit? And, most importantly, how do I seal the handles when I am done? I have no clue what to use! Obviously, it needs to be clear, and it needs to be very durable, able to withstand being constantly handled, and stand up well to constant cleaning with mild detergent (soap and water). Also, it can't be overly thick. I don't want to screw up my handle by adding too much width to it! I linked the exact knives I ordered, so that is what I will be working with!

 

I expect half of the stuff on friday, the rest by tuesday (and HOPING amazon didnt pack poorly and send me a BROKEN water stone... I read a few reviews where this was a problem...)

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post #43 of 50
12/15/11 at 3:33am

Painted handles don't sound very hygenic to me.  I sure don't want the stuff flaking off into my food.

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post #44 of 50
12/15/11 at 8:50am
Thread Starter 

That is why I need to seal the handles when I am done ;) I just don't know what I need to use!

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post #45 of 50
12/16/11 at 11:29pm
Thread Starter 

O.M.F.G.

 

Never in my life have I felt ANYTHING so freakin SHARP. I am kinda afraid of it >.< More than anything, I have watched all the sharpening videos, practiced with a crappy whetstone on a crappy knife, and REALLY don't want to sharpen it now! I am very intimidated and afraid of ruining this GORGEOUS edge!

 

Obviously, I will practice on my shitty knives first. But, I still dont really have the confidence to work with my new knife yet!

 

Anywho, I promised pics :)

 

IMG_20111216_231643.jpg

 

The rest of the stuff (water stone, throw around knife, etc.) have not arrived yet. Next week for the knife, the stone should be in tomorrow :)

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post #46 of 50
12/17/11 at 12:55am

Nice!  Nowadays Tojiros are reliably very sharp OOtB.  They're great knives for the money.

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post #47 of 50
12/17/11 at 6:45am

All you will need to do for a while is hone it.  You will have time to practice sharpening on your "crappy knife" before you need to take your Tojiro to the stones.  They are decently sharp OOtB.

 

Have fun!

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post #48 of 50
12/17/11 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaya View Post

Spent the afternoon reading through some more threads on this forum, and found some more helpful info. ( Also, I found a thread a few days ago with advice for cleaning my coat, worked like a charm! Sparkling white! A soak in a bucket of oxyclean for 24 hours, then laundered with the rest of my whites with regular detergent and bleach. Didn't need to spot treat or anything! Though ironing was a bitch, so I may take another piece of advice and send the coats to the dry cleaner from now on :p)

 

Anyways, this thread is helping me quite a bit. I will settle on a chef knife today. Well, I kind of have to, I already told the kitchen manager last night that I was having trouble deciding, and he pretty much let me know I need to make up my mind and get a real knife. So, ya, today :p I will try to settle on a smaller chopping knife as well if I still have money left. Later, when the knife bug comes back or I finally am ready to throw my utility in the trash (already ready to toss that POS, I regret listening to the salesperson on it. I am reassuring myself by telling myself it will be my practice knife for sharpening, so I don't fuck up my nice ones :p) I will try a different brand, and use my experiences with smaller knives to decide on a knife upgrade much further down the road. I have been worried that I would be buying new chef knives every couple of years because I can't find one I like. Or, even worse, my first choice would be one that I regret and would be stuck with for years! But I feel reassured that I can find something I like with a smaller investment in a small knife. If I don't like a small knife, I can find someone to regift it to or something :p What I really got out of it was the knowledge and experience with the knife brand, which I am ok with if I didn't spend over 100 dollars on it! Might as well take a class at that point :p

 

One quick question, however. MAC professional are much more expensive than their 'Chef' line. What are the differences, and are the Chef line knives acceptable in light of their price and what they COULD be at twice the price for the professional line?


So you dug deep enough into the threads to find my old Tojiro DP thread :)

 

Hope you found comfort in the fact that your not the only one who was completely perplexed by all the information and learning involved with making your way into J knives.

 

I have wondered more than once why the webmaster here has not created a FAQ or wiki etc as a sticky since so many of us noobs seem to have the same questions and issues, but then again it is fun watching how the repetitive answers change as the months pass etc.

 

I do agree with the previous suggestion to spend most of your budget on your main knife, and to consider that knife be 240mm  and a gyuto as it makes sense to spend more on what you will use most, and also the size is a good compromise between what your comfortable with now, and what you may find you would like in the future when your skills improve.

 

That all said I see you did pull the trigger on your new purchase (and I think you did well) so be sure to update on your thoughts once you get to use it all etc. I think performance wise you will be very pleased with the Tojiro, and that you will learn to really like the length as well.

 

Good luck with your new tools :)

 

 

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post #49 of 50
12/17/11 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaya View Post

O.M.F.G.

 

Never in my life have I felt ANYTHING so freakin SHARP. I am kinda afraid of it >.< More than anything, I have watched all the sharpening videos, practiced with a crappy whetstone on a crappy knife, and REALLY don't want to sharpen it now! I am very intimidated and afraid of ruining this GORGEOUS edge!

 

Obviously, I will practice on my shitty knives first. But, I still dont really have the confidence to work with my new knife yet!

 

Anywho, I promised pics :)

 

IMG_20111216_231643.jpg

 

The rest of the stuff (water stone, throw around knife, etc.) have not arrived yet. Next week for the knife, the stone should be in tomorrow :)


Just wait till you learn to sharpen well and look back and think how much sharper your Tojiro is now compared to when you first got it! Yes it can get that much better!

 

The factory edge should hold up a good while if you are careful with hitting bones and such and use the ceramic rod properly. I had gifted a smaller gyuto to someone last year for Christmas who uses it daily (at home) and just sharpened it for her recently and it was actually still pretty sharp!

 


Edited by LennyD - 12/17/11 at 2:07pm
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post #50 of 50
12/19/11 at 2:42pm

Oh yes it can be that much better.  These knives are sharp but no where near what their potential is.

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