ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food & Equipment Reviews › Cooking Knife Reviews › UGH. So frustrated with knife shopping, I am ready to just get a Victorinox Fibrox and be done with this!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

UGH. So frustrated with knife shopping, I am ready to just get a Victorinox Fibrox and be done with this! - Page 4

post #91 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LennyD View Post


I wasn't sure which post to quote, but figure were all following along anyhow etc.

 

When viewing your pictures I saw the same things as stated previous, but did think the pic was tweaked due to how you were trying to take the picture.

 

Maybe try to take the pics in the same positions on the board as BDL did in his blog on get a grip etc. I know it may not be the easiest pic to take but well should be more telling too.

 

I'm far from a master of grip etc, but I knew you would get good feedback from the other members :)

 

Also I know it is hard enough to view an edge in a way that will allow you to learn from what you see vs how you sharpened etc and pics are even tougher (for me at least) but from what I see (beyond the chip lol) it looks like you "may" and again it is hard to tell from the pic alone have two things to look into. First is that it appears that the angle may change along the length (edge of blade not held at same angle to stone along entire knife etc) and also there is what looks like could possibly be either a burr or wire in the one pic.

 

I do not know if you pull your edge though a cork, soft wood or some similar item to pull off any wire etc but it couldn't hurt to try the next time your putting the knife to the stones. I get a little nuts on this and keep a 30X loupe with my stones so I can view it up close just to be sure I end up with a clean edge (it is actually very interesting and "telling" to use the glint test through some sort of magnifier). I can be a little OCD with stuff like that lol, but if it is there it would produce the really sharp and quickly dulling edge you describe (ask me how I know lol).

 

One other thing that I can not compare right now because I do not have a DP that is similar in blade height anymore (just my petty remains) but I also remember having a slightly wider edge on the ones I had and did for others etc that were similar. I know that is something that can be confusing as the edge on my Fujiwara is much wider one the front but thinner on the back but it is also an asymmetrical edge and grind, but my Konosuke edge is much thinner and it is pretty much 60/40.

 

Maybe someone more experienced can make sense of that and comment etc but I know there is more to the cause of your not being happy than just grip though that will make a big difference as well.

 

Oh and since I mention the petty I almost suggested one in your other thread until I realized all the different large stuff you do etc because it has a much smaller handle and the thinner blade seems to like an even more acute edge, but I am almost afraid to suggest another DP until you get past your current issues.

 

You brought up the two things I was most concerned about with my sharpening I was hoping to get some input on! One, is I was afraid the edge is too narrow. You can pretty clearly see how wide I have it, so if the edge is too small, I would like to know how to fix it! (I think a more shallow angle?). And the other one I know is much harder to tell, but I wasn't sure if I was getting an even angle the entire length. That is why I got the edge guide. As a rule, I am known for how consistently inconsistent I am ;)

 

In terms of the wire, I will try to pull it over a cork. I usually just use the stone to strop it lightly, then run a soft cloth or paper towel along the edge to grab anything I missed.

post #92 of 117

BC (and everyone else), Shun restarted their free sharpening service back in September (they discontinued it a couple years ago).  See here for more details. 

 

http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/warranty

 

BTW, you still have to pay shipping.  I'm not sure if I would judge their routine sharpening by comparing it to a repair job, but the repair job does raise questions.

 

Imaya, would it be possible for you to have someone else take photos of your grip?  Not that I have anything to offer, but the analysis will be more likely to address your concerns if our experts here can see your actual grip.
 

post #93 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddnmd View Post

BC (and everyone else), Shun restarted their free sharpening service back in September (they discontinued it a couple years ago).  See here for more details. 

 

http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/warranty

 

Free but the turnaround states,

 

"Please allow two weeks processing for sharpening and warranty orders, plus round trip shipping of up to four weeks."

 

A bit long to be without your knife.

 

Jim

post #94 of 117

Grip:

You're not actually "pinching" your knife.  "Pinch" means that if the knife suddenly disappeared the pads of your thumb and index finger would meet exactly.  It's not the length of your index finger that makes it hard for you to keep the knife stable, but the fact that your thumb is pointing along the blade, rather than down it.  That should be easy to correct. 

 

Your back fingers wrap around the knife too far.  The handle doesn't need that much stabilization.  If you lift your wrist a little, you'll use less of your back fingers.  Getting some arch in your wrist and coming "over the top" a little more will make the knife more agile and help it "point" more intuitively (i.e., the knife will go where you look automatically).  That is, as long as you keep your wrist on the same line as your elbow and forearm.

 

You've gotta wonder if these problems stem from the discomfort and lack of confidence you feel when you hold your Tojiro.  Try the fixes and if they don't help, it's time to think about a different knife.  You have a couple or three very good choices in or around the price. 

 

Sharpening:

Your bevels appear even enough. 

 

Keep using the Magic Marker trick even if that means replacing the ink frequently until you're SURE you're sharpening all the way down to the edge for the entire length of the knife.

 

What I can't tell by looking at a picture is how fine your burrs are and how completely you deburr.  Whether you rely on "burr method" techniques of detecting the burr through its various stages, and using your understanding to dictate your progress or not, sharpening is a process of creating a burr, refining it, and deburring

 

Hope this helps,

BDL

post #95 of 117

Hi Lenny,

 

I didn't see it actually sharpened but I know it was done by the owner while I was waiting because my other knives were brought out to me first then heard the owner working on my Shun in the back.  Sounded like a power water stone to me so my guess is that it was hand held on one power stone. 

 

The up side though:  today I decided it was time to hone my skills (no pun intended, okay, it WAS intended) with the EP, after putting a very nice edge on a couple of my German knives I worked on the Shun. I immediately found the angle was wrong so from scratch and took it al the way to 3000 grit tape.  The edge is far superior to the "professional" job (not quite ootb sharp) and I'm pleased with how it came out. 

 

So you CAN teach an old dog :)  Gota admit, having some good Youtube tutorials were very helpful.

post #96 of 117
Ed i can't argue with your method entirely as I'm pretty sure the first thing anyone from the greenest noob to the most experienced does is pick it up and see how it feels in their hand. Makes sense too.

That's just what I had done as well, and l even remember that while I was in the business I was not all that concerned with knives in general either and long as they cut I was good.

Thing is to me at least that most of my back then was spent on doing and learning so not lots of time to mess around with changing out the tools etc.

I also know how uneasy I was with my first J knife purchase because I couldn't actually handle one etc. It was almost blind faith wink.gif

Fast forward to today and I can't believe the improvement in cutlery, and can only imagine how this may have changed things if I had an opportunity to use what I have and know now.

Sure sharpening can take up time, and it would require to be made a part of the daily/weekly or even monthly activity of a busy kitchen but hey you got to do all kinds of other maintenance, servicing and cleaning too, and those don't improve anything as much as keep it going.

I honestly cannot think of going back, and am finally to the point where I'm not always having to stop or worry about rocking at all. Still feels strange but oh so much better smile.gif

And I can

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #97 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaya View Post

You brought up the two things I was most concerned about with my sharpening I was hoping to get some input on! One, is I was afraid the edge is too narrow. You can pretty clearly see how wide I have it, so if the edge is too small, I would like to know how to fix it! (I think a more shallow angle?). And the other one I know is much harder to tell, but I wasn't sure if I was getting an even angle the entire length. That is why I got the edge guide. As a rule, I am known for how consistently inconsistent I am wink.gif

In terms of the wire, I will try to pull it over a cork. I usually just use the stone to strop it lightly, then run a soft cloth or paper towel along the edge to grab anything I missed.

Judging angle can be tough, but can be made easier too.

I know there are a few "contraptions " that you can buy (angle guide, cube etc) and some seem better than others.

At this point I dont think the angle is as important as the consistency of it, and the burr.

I won't argue with BDL on the idea of a new knife (thats the fun part right) but if its not an option or whatever then lets figure this out. wink.gif

I also agree that judging an edge or a burr from a pic isnt the preferred method, but I am seeing something reflecting the light from the flash. Couldn't be sure what it is, but it's there.

On the other hand I may have just spent way too much time viewing my own edges lol

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #98 of 117
BC great news, now be sure to make it a little better each time till you get it the way you want etc.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #99 of 117

For sure Lenny; sharpening, as with cooking, begins with loving what you are doing.  Its part of the reason I'm not a professional chef, I think if I cooked professionally I'd come to hate it.  I need to be free to create, experiment, and learn as I want.  Kind of hard to do that on a line.  I'm sure nobody is going to put the same care into my tools and I will, and it gives me the opportunigy to learn a new skill. 

post #100 of 117

Hahaha!  I don't know a single pro cook that doesn't hate it sometimes!biggrin.gif

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #101 of 117
What's not to hate lol.

Seriously though the reason I left the trade wasn't due to the job or any of the things I had to perform etc, and not even some of the sociopaths I worked for as all of that was the fun part (yea I'm a lil nuts) but it was the combination of the hours that totally interfered with having a social life and being able to increase my earnings outside the industry.

Still enjoy all areas when I have the time.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #102 of 117

Wait a sec!!! You mean Bourdain isn't the ONLY sociopath in the business?  *grin*  I'd never survive, I'm just not crazy enough, the voices assured me of it.

post #103 of 117
Well they weren't all actual sociopaths, and I'm sure any actual diagnosis would have been an interesting read, but as luck would have it I did learn almost as much about mental and social disorders as I did about the Biz etc.

Oddly even beyond this as my career changed through the years with entirely different industries and positions I still seemed to somehow find those who liked to throw fits, make up elaborate stories they told so often they began to believe their own BS, would show up in completely different personalities day to day, loved throwing anything within reach across the room when things didn't go their way, do push ups in the middle of a busy shift to reduce stress, fire half the staff because they had a bad day (normally right before busiest days of the year) and I even had one that liked to bang his head on his board, but the best I can remember was a 6'5" 450lb coworker that in a office environment would literally throw himself through a door knocking it off the wall or even through the wall itself if he got frustrated. Think of it like a huge kid with ADDHD on crystal meth and crack lmao.

I know this was way OT, but you brought back memories lol.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #104 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by LennyD View Post

but the best I can remember was a 6'5" 450lb coworker that in a office environment would literally throw himself through a door knocking it off the wall or even through the wall itself if he got frustrated. Think of it like a huge kid with ADDHD on crystal meth and crack lmao.

ROFL!!!!!

post #105 of 117

Hahahahaha, That tops any story I know and I've worked with some strange guys.

post #106 of 117

OK, I can't resist.  Please forgive the OT response...

 

I worked at AIG Trading for a while.  At one point ON THE TRADING FLOOR, two FX traders decide to have a milk drinking contest.  The contest ended when one of them spewed milk everywhere.


Another trader threw his chair out the window when he had a bad day.

 

Don't miss investment banks much. ;-)

post #107 of 117

Yeah but I thought insanity was a prerequisite for being a trader :)

post #108 of 117
Thread Starter 

I guess it is time for my yearly check-in!

 

First, to tie up an end to where the conversation let off;

 

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/02/the-jobs-with-the-most-psychopaths/

 

That article, or a similar one another site mirrored, was posted a few months ago on the kitchen billboard by one of the chefs. They apparently got a kick out of that. I am not a chef, but *have* been a care aid, a teacher, charity worker, got my bachelor's degree in fine art (creative arts), and enjoy doing craft-type work, building things, woodworking, metalworking, etc with my art. Needless to say, I am pretty unhappy with my job in a kitchen. I have fallen into the 'family' with the common workers, who adore me, but cannot touch the 'club' with the chefs and their favorite cooks. I feel doomed to be a cook forever, which is a waste of time to me. If I am not learning, I really don't care to do mindless menial work. One of my many ideas and aspirations is to open a restaurant (and I have a FANTASTIC original idea for one too, if I do say so myself...), and use the success of that to expand it into a chain, and use the profits for my ultimate goal, starting my own unrelated line of food and grocery products that will help get nutritious, whole food to those who can't afford boutique organic and all natural products. Because, you see, I am not a sociopath. I don't need to make a dragon-pile of money, helping people is all I want from my ultimate goal.

 

But, before all that, I need to learn the food industry. And pay the bills, because I need a roof over my head and utilities. Neither is happening.

 

Unrelated tangent, sorry! On to knives!

 

 

 

Been working more with the Tojiro, of course. I am liking it a lot more after working on my grip. However, I still am apprehensive about bringing it out. It isn't a workhorse, more of a bust-out. It loses the edge too quickly, and seems to require more care and time to stop to hone than I can give it. I work with cases of tomatoes at a time. Halfway through a case, I need to stop and hone for a few minutes, which I just can't do. Tomatoes seem to be the hardest, next is dicing proteins or mincing very large amounts of herbs (a case of cilantro to go with that case of tomatoes...). I need that knife sharp for when I need a sharp knife, so I don't like to wear the edge if I don't have to. I use the serrated for as much as I can, slicing what I can with it and finishing the dice with the Tojiro if there is a lot to do. Otherwise, that Victorinox Fibrox is my real workhorse. I am not afraid to abuse the shit outta it. I will replace it next season, a solid $20 investment! Mostly, when I think about it, the reason I use mostly serrated has to do with what I mentioned previously; I am stuck where I am. I clean and cut case after case of fruit every single day. It is faster, easier, safer, and cleaner with the whippy serrated knife. I would say fruit is easily 60-70% of all the knife work I do. A lot of what I do does not even involve knife work, because my boss likes my presentation work. So, I do tons of cold platter arrangements and general menial condiment filling and simple recipes. The complicated stuff is left to the veterans.

 

Money is tight, but I always get a small amount of xmas, and knives are something I tend to consider. I have dropped all ideas of trying any kind of scalloped edge that *may* work, and want to keep it a bit more simple. A local knife dealer came by with some knives and sharpening service. I tried out a Mac Superior he had on display, and was surprised at the weight! It looked like a Santuku, was the same size, but had much more heft to it. I forgot what he said it was, but looking up the available models, it must have been the 6.5" cleaver. Looks like a Santuku, but feels more like a western knife in hand. Sharp as all hell, beautiful edge, nice weight and felt good in hand. I read a thread that talked about the Superior line, and how light they were compared to the heft of the Professional series. The Superior is less expensive, and I am not sure if the MAC Professional Santuku is comparable to the MAC Superior 6.5" cleaver? I seem to recall being quoted $85 for it by the local guy, but I might be remembering incorrectly, the price is much higher on the website. Just a thought, don't want to go much over $100 on this, and might change my mind again. :)

 

 

 

 

Speaking of the knife vendors with their sharpening service... I took them my serrated knife, which was on the way out. I figured they couldn't make it any worse, as I am ready to replace it anyways. They sharpened it, but oddly, the serrations were still rounded off just as bad. It's like they just went in the bevel and sharpened it, and didn't put the edge back on the serrations. Odd, but it bought a few months on the knife! Anyways, right after I dropped off the serrated knife, I had no intention of letting them touch my Tojiro with their band sharpening machine. I checked out the knives for sale, immediately looking at the MACs he had, the nicest he had out. He asked what I was using, I told him I had a Tojiro and I basically stopped for the particular knife I was holding. He excitedly said "Oh, so you are looking for the GOOD stuff!" and pulled out a knife case. He showed me the custom work they did, some nice carbon knives they forged in-shop. Not bad looking! He pulled out some Globals and told me he has lots of nice stuff at the store, but mostly brings the cheap stuff to the resorts, since that is what people want. We talked about Japanese knives a bit, he named off a nice list of good Japanese knives he carries, he explained the mysterious heft in the Mac Superior that looked like a Santuku I was holding, then my boss swooped into the room, bought the three cheapest knives he had, and shooed me back to work. Right before break, I thought about the fact he seemed to carry more Japanese knives than Europeon ones, and might know how to sharpen them. They had free sharpening, so it might not hurt to ask if he brought some stones and could work on my Tojiro, as it was overdue for a sharpening and I still am unsure if I am even doing an adequate job at it. I mean, he MADE HIS OWN KNIVES... He MUST know better than me!

 

I took it to him, asking if he had waterstones and could do a nice job with it instead of running it over the grinder. He laughed and said not to believe the 'hype' of the waterstones. He uses the band sharpener for all the high end stuff he sells, stuff much nicer than my Tojiro, sells all of his professional sharpening jobs off of it, and uses it to sharpen his carbon blades he makes in house, which did look and feel really nice. He said they have a 1200 grit belt for it (I held back a chuckle knowing I have the 4k combo stone at home) and it was a professional job. I figured a 1200 grit job was halfway there, and I could polish it at home once he got the proper bevel and a good start on it, because I might not be sharpening it right! I left it with him, he gave it the the sharpening guy and set it aside as special, and I went off to my break.

 

Came back, picked it up. He declared "That is what a sharp knife feels like!" I opened the sheath and my heart sank as I gave him a weak smile, mumbled a thanks, and left. I saw right off the bat there was zero extra care given to it. No stropping, no deburring, covered in carbon. Looking closer, immediately noticed how small the bevel was. I had a decent sized one on it before. No more. Closer look revealed scratches ALL OVER the bevel. 1200 grit?? Ya, right. He didn't bother to change the effin belt. It was sanded with a 600 grit, 800 grit if I am feeling kind. Luckily, it had a VERY light touch. They only worked over the bevel already there, from what I could tell. It was superficially sharp with a narrow bevel, just like all my coworker's knives, and what I thought I asked him to NOT do... I imagine they do that to give a super sharp edge that will wear out quickly and encourage people to go back and pay for another sharpening. And, I could SEE the burrs and metal shards! WTF?? I took it back to my station and cleaned it, deburred it, and worked it over my ceramic honing rod, immediately getting it sharper. However, the bevel was still super shallow and really scratched up (OCD thing, I realize, because i am used to the mirror finish I keep on it...), and it just... didn't seem as sharp as it could be. Took it home, 20 minutes on the combo 1k/4k stone, got my bevel back and it was sharp as I could get it. (the cut on my finder from grazing over it as I cleaned it still hurts, reminding me...) Which, of course, was MUCH sharper than the 'professionals' got it. And my edge was smooth and scratch free, like a mirror. It isn't perfect, as I am no expert (I could see the slight skids and flaws, but it takes very close scrutiny), but it sure helped my confidence! I KNOW the sharpening job *I* did was FAR superior to the shitty free one I got. Though, a professional with a waterstone and my nice knife I am sure could do much better, the little bit of amateur care I showed my knife gave FAR superior results to the lazy, careless 'free sharpening' I got from 'professionals' who ASSURED me they knew how to take care of a nice knife. I won't make that mistake again. I just hope to one day find a Japanese knife expert who can really give me a nice edge! I thought I found one, but was very mistaken, my poor Tojiro having to suffer for this knowledge.

 

 

 

All I have for now! I like my Tojiro better, might like it more if I had an opportunity to use it more. I am sure it would kick serious ass at home. And Victorinox Fibrox serrated bread knives, for the price, are the way to go! Super sharp out of box, replace it when it gets worn out, and you will always have a great bread knife you aren't afraid to toss around, lose, abuse, and replace! Cheap Victorinox paring knife is what I use (not often) but it is super sharp and whippy, perfect for the Garde Manger fancy fruit/ vegetable garnishes I carve, nice and sharp and easy to maneuver due to being thin and agile. I use a Zyliss small serrated knife for halving a few cases of grape tomatoes at a time, works like charm and EONS faster and better than a regular paring knife! Has held up just fine! I picked up a pair of Wustof shears, couldn't tell you which model. They were on sale. They get used often. They work great even though I cut through lots of grape stems with them. Messermeister serrated peeler. I need no other peeler. I use it daily. It peels everything; carrots, potatoes, ginger, squashes. It doesn't gouge at all and it easy to maneuver enough to get only skins off. And it does all this fast. It was $12 bucks. Easily the best peeler I have ever owned, and I will replace it as soon as it wears out (getting there, will need to be replaced by this time next year) None of the other knives are worth mentioning, as that is my regular arsenal.

post #109 of 117

If you're using a serrated that much, maybe you should consider getting the tojiro itk bread knife.

post #110 of 117

Nice to hear an OP return to the thread after a while to relate experiences and results, doesn't  happen often enough.

 

Rick

post #111 of 117
Wusthof are crap, just so you know I've had them, I've been using a shun knives for years know I I love them. I work in a one Michelin star restaurant in nyc and every cook in there has a Japanese knife they all swear by it, it might be out of your budget but go to www.korin.com and you'll see great knife selection there too.
post #112 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Alan View Post

Nice to hear an OP return to the thread after a while to relate experiences and results, doesn't  happen often enough.

Rick

Totally agree, and open ended threads seem popular in forums on any topic not just cooking or knives.

I'm still a bit confused on the experience with edge retention on the Tojiro. Just not in line with my experience etc.

I do believe they will need more regular attention in a professional environment, and a weekly touch up would seem a fair estimate for sharpening.

It was interesting to see the experience with a so called professional sharpener, but from just discussing knives with a few sharpening service place's this would seem normal, and when you consider it is a business to make money it only makes sense for them to do a fast and cheap job etc.

Far as serrated edges I prefer scalloped because I have been able to get the edge to come back by slowly working it with a hone. lot of work compared to a fine edge but works.

I also am finding that those fibrox get plenty of use, and though likely all based on cost in our throw away world etc I found 3 people using them for cutting rolls (sushi) and that seemed odd.

One even admitted that it was just too expensive to be grinding down his $550 Massamotto to a tooth pick from sharpening, and that I was unusual to notice the difference in the
end product from not needing pressure to complete the cut and that required to make the forschner work etc (guess my OCD makes me notice the little things).

was an interesting discussion to say the least lol

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #113 of 117
Thread Starter 

I am not sure if I mentioned this before, but I think the cutting surfaces I use are part of why my Tojiro loses it's edge so quickly. We use plastic cutting boards, I have no options otherwise. We have two types, one is a slightly softer plastic, and the other is a very hard one. The soft ones become useless after a few washings, as they warp badly after being run through the pot washing machine. The thick, hard plastic do not do this, and thus are really the only option for working with. I hear a nasty *crack* every once in a while as I am mincing, even with a light touch, if I hit it a bit hard. I don't imagine the board is kind to it, despite my best efforts to go easy. In comparison, my coworkers slam their knives into these boards, and you just hear *slamcrack* *slamcrunch* *slamcrack* *slamclink*. It doesn't sound good! The fact the boards are also old and well used, filled with knife gouges, many with melted areas from hot pots, etc. I am sure also contributes it's share to premature wear.

 

 

A weekly touchup sounds about right for the Tojiro. I have gotten better with sharpening, so it doesn't take as long as it used to. Perhaps as a goal for next year, after improving my grip this year, I should try to sharpen the knife more often. It is a chore, and usually involves a fight with the roommate to get him to clean up the dirty dishes he left in the sink I sharpen over. I have only been sharpening every couple months (longer in between when work is slow...), but that isn't often enough for this knife. Weekly is far more often than I thought I would need to do, so I really have been going too long between sharpenings. I thought I could run it over the stone every few months, keeping it honed during that time, and it would hold a nice edge. Not my experience at all. It needs the stone often, though honing does really do wonders to bring the edge back quickly, it still degrades faster than I expected.

 

I briefly considered a nice serrated/ bread knife when I first began knife shopping. But, after using the cheap Fibrox, knowing what a pain it is to sharpen serrated, and the PERFORMANCE the cheap Fibrox was getting over nice serrated knives that were a few years old, it seemed to make sense to just keep it cheap. I would end up wanting to pay someone to sharpen a serrated, and the cost of sharpening it would buy another Fibrox. I found no performance gains from more expensive knives over my Fibrox up to about the year and a half mark. As it got close to two years is when the performance noticeably declined, and gave me the indication of the lifespan being about 2 years. $20 every two years is not bad at all for a knife that impressed everyone who picked up and used such a heavily used and abused knife. I really love the handle, giving great grip even when my hands are loaded with fruit juice, oil, grease, etc. It washed up easily and beautifully too. The Fibrox material is also better than any of the other plastic handles in that it doesn't seem to hold schmutz in the pores like the Dexter, Sysco, etc. and other cheap knife plastic handles do. It also has better grip than a traditional slick wooden handle. I can't say much for ergonomics, as a pinch grip is not used on the bread knife, but I have always found it so comfortable I don't even notice it. It is not too wide, not too narrow, seems to fit my hand right for how I hold the bread knife. For $20, I don't think I would ever consider any other bread knife! It does the job, does it well, and is cheap enough to keep a fresh one in rotation to maintain the great performance for the price range. I really like the rounded end as well, it comes in handy very, very often. I was given a new Dexter serrated a year ago, and my year old Fibrox STILL cut better than the new knife, for reference.

 

 

 

I used the forums here extensively in my knife research, and it came up often in Google results. That is why I really like to keep all information and experiences updated, even if it is only yearly, as I imagine I cannot be the only one reading these forums from Google to get information. I hope my experiences help others as much as other experiences I read about on this forum helped me! One thing I cannot stand is when I Google a problem, find someone else with the same problem, and they never report back with solutions or complete troubleshooting! I will find forums with threads that are years old, that just died out before any answers, conclusions, or helpful information was posted.

post #114 of 117

Bump for Chad Ward's "An Edge in the Kitchen"  to anyone who hasn't read it.  Best $25 I ever spent in the kitchen.

post #115 of 117
Quote:
I used the forums here extensively in my knife research, and it came up often in Google results. That is why I really like to keep all information and experiences updated, even if it is only yearly, as I imagine I cannot be the only one reading these forums from Google to get information. I hope my experiences help others as much as other experiences I read about on this forum helped me! One thing I cannot stand is when I Google a problem, find someone else with the same problem, and they never report back with solutions or complete troubleshooting! I will find forums with threads that are years old, that just died out before any answers, conclusions, or helpful information was posted.

 

In my experience this is spot on.

 

I first found ChefTalk when googling for information about knives and I've just finished reading this entire thread. I can't properly express how much I appreciate your detailed updates and everyone's excellent advice (special shoutout to Wagstaff, LennyD, and BDL in particular).

 

So thanks very much and kudos to you all :D !

post #116 of 117
I use the Fibrox 10". I sharpen all our knives at work, lots of different kinds. The Victorinox is a pretty soft steel, it is fast to sharpen and gets crazy sharp. It needs honing all day though between tasks. It can get pretty annoying if your really busy. The trade to me is that heavier forged knives are way harder to sharpen, but hold the edge longer. I prefer the edge on the stamped Fibrox to Miyabi, Shun, Mac, and Mercer knives of my coworkers. It is easier to sharpen, and it is way less expensive. Ill keep my Fibrox till it falls apart. It broke down 30 lbs. of very tough butternut squash the other day, I was really impressed. I wish I had the rosewood version. I think ill pick one up and then I can keep the Fibrox at home.
Edited by jonnyboy369 - 1/30/15 at 11:34am
post #117 of 117

Johnnyboy you probably recall my Vic Rosewood review.  After thinning, primarily at the tip, reshaping the handle and coating with epoxy, I like it enough that I'm not only using it but have no intentions of replacing it.  It's more than fine for carrots beets, large squash and swede.  With the thinned tip it does horizontal cuts through onion like nothing, but for the actual dicing I'd have to say something like a Konosuke would be preferable. ;-)~  I keep meaning to put pictures up of the finished product, eventually I will.

 

 

Rick

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cooking Knife Reviews
ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food & Equipment Reviews › Cooking Knife Reviews › UGH. So frustrated with knife shopping, I am ready to just get a Victorinox Fibrox and be done with this!