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Need help deciding between Hattori HD and Konosuke HD Gyuto Xmas purcahase - Page 2

Poll Results: Would you suggest the better choice Hattori HD (Maruyoshi), or Konosuke HD in 240mm Gyuto?

 
  • 25% (2)
    Hattori HD
  • 75% (6)
    Konosuke HDH
8 Total Votes  
post #31 of 43
Thread Starter 
Well it has arrived and though I will follow up with more info and measurements soon I have to say from initial thoughts its a keeper wink.gif

Have not had a chance to use it yet but the profile seems excellent and the weight or lack there of is amazing.

This is my first wa handled and also laser so I had pretty high expectations, and I think this one will fill those expectations better than the Corian handled one could have.

We won't be able to know know the difference in measurements until I find time to take some,but this one feels thinner and more like I expected a laser too,

Will follow up up soon as I have some more feedback.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

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"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

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post #32 of 43
Thread Starter 

In follow up I have to add that this knife really does grow on you.

 

The more I use it the more I finding I enjoy using it.

 

I did a fast sharpening on it up to 6K and that really helped to improve ease of cutting, but I did rush it, and there is still room for improvement. Also can anyone advise if this one would benefit from going beyond 6K, or if this should be sufficient for the most part?

 

I can not find my measurements so will still have to get them posted (actually thought i did already, but must have been in a diff thread) but for the most part the thickness was very similar to the yo handle, and the two areas that I found the most change was the length (about 7/16 shorter) and the thickness behind the edge was slightly thinner. Most all the others were within .001-.003 so no real change.

 

The ever so slightly flatter profile has not proven to be a problem, and I am really starting to like it. Also along with the serious reduction in weight the change in profile is also helping to distinguish it from the much less expensive Fujiwara FKM that I have (and really like also).

 

On that note I am considering changing the edge to be more asymmetrical as it has proved to work well with the Fujiwara, and with the tougher steel of the Konosuke I was thinking the thinning would be less of an issue, but then again was also thinking it may be better to just reduce my sharpening angle some and let the "laser" shine based on it being so thin. Any thoughts on this?????

 

I am including a pic below to show her off :)   (sorry for the grainy pic but I can not seem to find my camera and had to use my droid, but that should do better too so who knows).

 

Konosuke HD gyuto 240mm.jpg

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

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"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

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post #33 of 43

Looks good, Lenny. Enjoy that beauty!

post #34 of 43

Lenny,

 

Now that you've had the Konosuke HD wa-gyuto 240mm "new shape" for a while, any more impressions?

 

I ask because I'm trying to decide between the standard and the "new" shape for that 240mm gyuto and would really like to hear feedback from actual users.

 

Mostly, is it too flat to rock for cutting?  Is the tip so low that you can't really rock it much without catching the tip?

 

For comparison, I have a 240mm Yoshikane wa-gyuto which I really like, but it is quite thick for a Japanese knife - 3.2mm close to the base.  The shape works pretty well for me, though.  It's got a very long almost (but not quite) flat section, then flares up to a somewhat low tip.  I use it for both push cutting and rocking.  Its point is maybe a hair lower than I would really like.   Here's a link so you can see the picture of it:  http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=85676

 

I would not want a flatter knife, or a knife with a lower point than that Yoshikane.  Same (or slightly less) flat, and a slightly higher point would be perfect.

 

Could you tell me how the shape of your "new shape" Konosuke gyuto compare to the Yoshikane and how it's been working for you?

 

Thanks!

post #35 of 43
Thread Starter 
Tarn thanks for reminding me I wanted to follow up on the thread. Been busy lately and just have not found my way here.

To address your question I believe the STD profile may be better suited to what you describe being most important (rocking etc) but also want to be clear the "new" or flatter profile can rock cut also, but I do not believe as efficiently as the STD, and if that is your main interest or need I think the STDunder is the way to go.

I have to be honest that the difference in profile between the two I have had was not nearly as much as the difference between the weight and feel of the yo corian to the wa. Sure you can notice there is a different profile and it is definitely flatter, but it achieves the flatter with a thinner approach to the tip than what was in your link (that one looked to have a profile that was closer to a santoku than the HD "new" etc)

Also note that one of the reasons I have not added any new comments is that I am seriously trying to get more comparison time under my belt. Now I do not have the STD around to compare etc, but I have been trying to cut the same things with both the HD and the FKM and just have not had the opportunity to have enough work at once to do it fairly.

This will kind of allow a comparison of the profiles as the FKM is not much different in profile at the edge than the STD, but I am also trying to gain enough time and knowledge in the comparison to judge a $90 knife against a $270 one.

Still I can not ignore the difference that is very real in how they rock. I actually found myself using a very quick chopping cut to mince onion last week with the HD. It was actually very comfortable and though not how I had learned to mince as that was all rock and roll etc lol.

Like I said earlier I need more time etc, but from your info I am not seeing any reason to spend a good amount more for the flatter profile, and with rock cutting being of major importance it seems even less a value.

Remember I went this route with the flatter profile based more on stock than preference, and though I must offer kind words to Mark for helping to close the gap in price a little since I was really looking for the less expensive STD one I am also understanding that there really is not anything special about one over the other that would cause a higher cost to manufacture and the added cost is more about marketing, and being exclusive or special etc.

Guess I could have condensed it to just why spend more if you don't need too lol.

Let me know if you have any other questions as I expect it will be a few weeks at least before I am ready to do a follow up, comparison or review etc.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #36 of 43

Thanks for the info.  I've ordered their standard profile and will see how it goes.

post #37 of 43
Thread Starter 
Be sure to let us know your thoughts once you get it!

Hope you like the HD as much as I do.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #38 of 43
Got the Konosuke HD Gyuto 240mm (regular shape, not new shape) Saturday.

I was assuming I would need to run through a sharpening session with it before use (as I had to with the petty) but it was quite sharp out of the box. Had some long marks along the blade, so perhaps it was hand sharpened along the way somewhere. I'm not one who cares about marks on the blade, and these won't be noticeable once I use it a bit anyway. Don't know what the actual cutting bevel is.

Just a few initial thoughts. I'll try to post a more full opinion once I've used it for a month or so.

The shape / geometry seems just about right for my combination of rocking and push cutting. It's got a little more belly to it then my pretty flat Yoshikane, but I don't think I'd want it flatter -- the shape seems very good for all purpose work.

Handle has a nice length, is slightly narrow but seems to work fine for my grip. Ho wood handle is a larger diameter than the Konosuke petty ebony handle. The ferrule and wood aren't exactly flush, but I wasn't expecting them to be.

I LOVE the weight of it! My abused wrists appreciate it. A little blade heavy, as expected, but not much with this blade! I kind of wish it had the heavier ebony handle for a slightly more balanced feel, but in use it hasn't seemed to matter. The thin blade does make me a little nervous about what not to cut with it -- I guess that will be learned with experience (and swearing).

If anyone else had advice on what not to cut with this (after I take it to my planned 10* relief bevel, 13* cutting bevel) I would love to hear it.


So, actual use (coming from a home cook, so feel free to laugh):

Dicing potatoes made me giggle. Blade just glides right through.

Cutting apple wedges was easy. Cuts were even easier than with the Konosuke petty. Probably a weight or blade stiffness difference since it couldn't be my perfect (not!) sharpening job. Heh.

Onion diced easily, but not spectacularly. The cuts near the end of the blade were a little more work (but still easy). Need to cut more onions to see if this is typical. Probably the end of the blade just needs some sharpening work, or I'm wiggling in the cut.

Jicama into medium dice worked pretty well. Cutting the initial planks had some wedging (as expected with a big jicama) but worked fine without cracking it, and everything after that was very smooth. My Wustoff cracked the other jicama I cut up.

Lemons, Limes, Oranges, celery all easy to work with.

Carrots cut into rounds easily. I did some quick quartering and juliene of one to test and it was better than any of my other knives. Haven't tried any really large diameter carrots though.

I admit I did NOT try the new knife on the Kabocha squash that got roasted and made into a nice soup. Back to the big $15 cleaver for that.


So far I'm pretty impressed. Once I take the time to do my own sharpening and get some more use of this under my belt I'll post about it. Again, if anybody (BDL? Lenny?) has recommendations on what not to cut with this blade, I'd love to hear them rather than learn the hard way.
post #39 of 43

The factory bevel is usually convex and not terribly acute; at least my Konosukes came that way.  

 

After fooling around with a bunch of angles, symmetries and finishes, I've come to the conclusion that unless you go very extreme and compromise durability a great deal, that somewhere in the 12* to 15* range is fine; 3:2 asymmetry works well; and a double bevel (such as your proposed 13/10) is redundant; and whenever truing is necessary, stropping on paper rather than steeling will allow you to hold a higher polish longer. 

 

Also, I think 13/10 is a very difficult angle to sharpen -- probably impossible without using a very accurate gag, such as an EP with an angle finder and collet stop -- and the angles are too close to make much difference.  Besides the grind angles on a laser are so acute, you really don't need to thin.

 

You can cut just about anything -- including all but the very toughest squash -- other than bone.  The trick is keeping the blade angle to square to the cut.  If you're under a lot of time pressure and don't have really good knife skills (for instance a line cook without a lot of knife training), that's going to make trouble.  On the other hand, if you're a home cook who doesn't get a lot of "hurry up" screaming, you can take your time.  If the knife binds, just start over and focus on keeping the blade straight along all three axes. 

 

Remember that a very soft grip is your best friend.

 

BDL

 

 

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post #40 of 43

Thanks for the info!

 

I do have the EdgePro, so can get the 10* relief bevel and 13* primary bevel (keeping it symmetric) but you're saying it wouldn't give much benefit.

 

My primary reason for doing the different relief and primary bevels was to keep the primary bevel very small so I can resharpen quickly (with the jig) when needed.  This is what I do with most of my woodworking tools (usually freehand).  Maybe something more like 10*/15*  or 12*/15* if the 10* relief would make the edge too weak?

 

Really glad to hear it on the cutting just about anything!  I'm pretty careful not to force the tool.  I do get the yelling, but it's my kids with "we're hunger - when's dinner!" instead of the boss.

 

I was planning on avoiding bones but it's good that most squash will work.  (Not that kabocha though -- took a cleaver and a mallet.)  Have you used yours on pineapple?  That's a common one for me here.

post #41 of 43

Yes to pineapple.  It's asking a lot from your technique and from the knife itself, so it's not my first choice.  That would be my 10" Forschner Cimiter. 

 

A double bevel on my Konosuke wa-gyuto didn't do anything positive for me, but it's easy enough to test for yourself.  Also, if you're bevel angles are less than 5* apart from one another, don't bother.

 

BDL

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post #42 of 43
Thread Starter 
Just a bit of reinforcement to the above as I have to agree that the 5° difference.for dbl bevel makes sense and also that I saw no reason to put one on the Konosuke as the thin blade just doesn't seem to need it.

I did experiment with a slightly higher angle (approx 15-17°) but did not like how that felt and went a bit lower and it seemed better (approx 12-13°), but may have to adjust this as last sharpening I made the edge asymmetric to around 70/30. Have only used it once this way but it felt much sharper and better matched to a lighter grip, but will have to see how well it holds up.

Have to admit the more I sharpen this knife and change the edge the more I am enjoying it smile.gif

I have to see how much of this can be contributed to the angle, changes from additional sharpening, and from the more asymmetric edge, but so far in my very undemanding use ( no real rush normally ) it seems to be all about the combination.

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #43 of 43

Thanks for the info.  Please let us all know how it goes with the 12-13° bevels.

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