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Problematic person!

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

 

Hey there guys,
 
I'm in a slight dilemma regarding kitchen safety. 
I work as an executive chef in a kitchen here in the UK. I have been here for about 2 years and have been seriously bringing this kitchen out of the dark ages of cuisine. The kitchen itself is pretty old and the building even older and to give you an idea the building was built in 1821. I have spent a lot of time looking through the old paperwork for the kitchen and have been bringing the kitchen up to food health and safety standards.(trust me they are strict in the UK!)
And it seems to all be going fine but I'm encountering serious problems convincing the damn manager here to spend any money on things that by law need to be upgraded! This guy oversees what gets spent on what and is not a bad guy but I can not seem to tell him enough times that we need to upgrade certain things by law! It seems like his mentality is "when we are forced to change it by the local government then we will reluctantly do it". But with all honesty some things need to be upgraded like NOW for the safety of my staff. I have showed him health and safety law and guideline documents. I have sat down with him and told him what needs to be done.
A grand example of this is the gas emergency switch off point. By law in the UK in a work place that uses gas and some electrical appliances there needs to be a point in the kitchen or very close by where you can shut off the gas in the event of an emergency. You can do it by hitting a button or turning a valve and thus saving time.
I have approached this guy three times now about this in the past six months. I have had quotes to get it done...But nothing.
Just a deep sigh and "yeah leave it with me i'll check the budget"...But what he is really saying is "I have no intention on spending any money on anything I don't deem necessary"
As I'm sure you can understand and this is quite annoying. I'm not really sure how to get through to this guy. I don't particularly want to go behind his back and go to the person who oversees him but I really think it is going to get to that point. 
 
Anybody got any ideas or help?
 
I may have posted this in the wrong place....so sorry if i have.
post #2 of 18

You're talking serious leasehold improvements, and the mangr has no budget for this, he's not your man. 

 

Perssonally, I would arrange for the mngr top get a  meeeting with myself, the mngr, and the owner,--the dude who owns or leases the building. 

Two things have to come out of that meeting: a time frame and a budget.  For ammunition you can scare the owner with tales of health and fire inspectors, sure, yeah, but the big one is insurance.  Insurance boys will back out of any claim if they determine that the building was not up to code. They can also refuse to renew or continue with a policy if the building isn't up to code.  If this doesn't sink into the owner's brain, then it's a lost cause 

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #3 of 18

It's a universal management mentality.....as the OP pointed out....they will not put any money out unless they absolutely have to. Been there!

Although I don't condone this, it would be in your best interests to become friends with your local health department inspector, and perhaps develop a "surprise inspection" someday. That may help....

post #4 of 18

Safety or not I hate to say this but it sounds like their trying to run a business.. I dont know how many times the play it stupid card has worked in my favor which is about 99%.. But in the end there are some things you cant get away with and being a supervisor over managing all of the money for an establishment they usually have a pretty good Idea of what they can and cant.. business is business.. Thats all there is to it.. You cant make money without spending money but you wont make any money if you spend all of it... I am sure their more worried about making sure they have money for the electricity, food, liqour, gas, employees, etc.. before they are on something like a shut off valve for the gas.. ive never worked in a kitchen that had a shutoff valve to turn the gas off in the entire kitchen.. i normally just yank the oven or fryer and shut it off with my hand behind the equipment.. But I am in america and call the health and safety department on me for what I do since ive never scored anything less than 98% in the last 6 years...

post #5 of 18

Ahh... but you've never dealt with a fire inspector, or the building's/landlord's insurance company before have you?

 

Spend your money wisely, get everyting up to code, or you'll have a monkey on your back and it will cost you a lot more than it originally was, in both money and lost income.

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #6 of 18

Well considering My dad was a Safety Inspector along with being Fire Chief and my mother Handled all the accounting for multiple companies I have a pretty good idea of Regulations and Building Codes, as well as dealing with insurance companies considering i can call either one of them if im ever unsure of something. I may be only 25 and not have had any formal education.. but I did grow up in this business my entire life..

post #7 of 18

Sigh...........

 

Then you know that each municipality has different codes.

 

For instance, in most places, you don't need to put an electric convection oven under a hood.  In California, you do.  Most places you can't vent a gas hot water heater under a hood, but in many rural municipalities, you can.

 

The O.P is in England, waaay different code.  What the local municipality says needs to be done, gets done, or you don't get occupancy. Don't be stupid and fight the local authorities. Fire marshals and plumbing inspectors can get nasty if you pizz them off. Don't find out for yourself or you will be sorry, 

 

Heck, I worked in Singapore where the local code stated you had to have total gas shut-off when the hood (Ventilaton system) wasn't running.  That litle device  added almost a grand to the total cost of the hood and make-up air quote.   That means the morning guy had to manually light the pilots on every damn gas appliance,from fryers to flattops every morning, and every hotel and restaurant has to do this. Local fire code in S'pore stated I had to have a 3 hr rate fire wall around my walk-in cooler and freezer. Had to put it in or I wouldn't get my occupancy permit, and withour that, I could't get final health inspection,and without that, I couldn't open up--legaly.

 

Follow the local codes, and the insuance co. doesn't have an excuse to back out if and wen something happens--remember their mantra is: "Pay as little as late as possible--or not at all".  Don't give them the golden excuse not to cover you.  Don't give the health boys an excuse to pull your license, don't give the plumbing boys an excuse to run a camera snake down your pipes and fine you heavily greased up pipes, don't give the fire marshal an excuse for pulling your license because you hood doesn't shut off when the fire suppression is activated, don't give the worker's comp boys an excuse to fine you if you don't have tempered make-up air in the kitchen.  Be smart, know your local codes..

t

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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post

Sigh...........

 

Then you know that each municipality has different codes.

 

For instance, in most places, you don't need to put an electric convection oven under a hood.  In California, you do.  Most places you can't vent a gas hot water heater under a hood, but in many rural municipalities, you can.

 

The O.P is in England, waaay different code.  What the local municipality says needs to be done, gets done, or you don't get occupancy. Don't be stupid and fight the local authorities. Fire marshals and plumbing inspectors can get nasty if you pizz them off. Don't find out for yourself or you will be sorry, 

 

Heck, I worked in Singapore where the local code stated you had to have total gas shut-off when the hood (Ventilaton system) wasn't running.  That litle device  added almost a grand to the total cost of the hood and make-up air quote.   That means the morning guy had to manually light the pilots on every damn gas appliance,from fryers to flattops every morning, and every hotel and restaurant has to do this. Local fire code in S'pore stated I had to have a 3 hr rate fire wall around my walk-in cooler and freezer. Had to put it in or I wouldn't get my occupancy permit, and withour that, I could't get final health inspection,and without that, I couldn't open up--legaly.

 

Follow the local codes, and the insuance co. doesn't have an excuse to back out if and wen something happens--remember their mantra is: "Pay as little as late as possible--or not at all".  Don't give them the golden excuse not to cover you.  Don't give the health boys an excuse to pull your license, don't give the plumbing boys an excuse to run a camera snake down your pipes and fine you heavily greased up pipes, don't give the fire marshal an excuse for pulling your license because you hood doesn't shut off when the fire suppression is activated, don't give the worker's comp boys an excuse to fine you if you don't have tempered make-up air in the kitchen.  Be smart, know your local codes..

t

 

Thankfully here the regulations are nowhere near that strict. And I have never heard of a plumber ever trying to run a snake cam down my pipes especially getting fined for it that's just crazy in my opinion but I definitely believe it and am grateful they don't pull those stunts here. I Do a decent job.. I havent scored less than a 98% on a health inspection here in the last five years... Last one I got two Non-Critical Violations 1 for an open container(some idiots drink they left out in the server station so obviously a server) 2nd one was a dented can of Whole Grain Dijon Mustard that was bulging.. Go figure... The other 5 Cans were fine though just had to throw the dented one out that was "Bulging" I thought it was dumb but what do I know... Then actually this reminds me the MOST surprising thing I found out is they changed the way we store meat like a month ago! I was always used to Walk/Swim/Fly... Beef,Pork stored on top of Fish, On top of Poultry.. we all know this.. BUT they changed it from that to internal cooking temperature so its now Swim/Walk/Fly.. This just baffled me that I have to store my beef underneath my seafood on the line.. (Note: I always keep seafood seperated anyways.. but as an example I Geuss they would'nt care if I stored the Shrimp above the beef or chicken so when someone comes in with a shellfish allergy they can get sick if for some reason it got contaminated by fault of someone...) Just upsets me cause ive been doing it for so long and they changed it and I think its dumb But what do you do.. Chicken and seafood should always be on the bottom shelf.. beef above in my opinion.. if its a cooler with raw meat in it.

post #9 of 18

Ask any plumber about F.O.G. (fats,oils and greases). Every commercial kitchen must have a grease trap, or that stuff will go down the pipes and eventually plug up the sewers.  When that happens, the city/municipalty gets just a wee bit ticked off, it is quite expensive to remove this build-up, so they run a snake (video camera) down the pipes and find out who is the worst offender and make them pay for the removal.  Happens a lot.  Happens a lot  too with suspended greasetraps hanging in underground parking garages, thing overflows and drips on some guy's car and all hell breaks loose. 

 

Minimum size for any place is 55 gal. grease trap, with a formula for so many sinks, floordrains etc for larger sizes.  If the plumbing inspector doesn't see one, or an undersized or rusted out one,  he gets pretty excited until he sees one installed. Believe me, you don't want this guy as your enemy, nor do you wnat city sewer workers knocking on your door with a greasy filtthy snake, looking for a clean-out plug in your kitchen....

...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post

Ask any plumber about F.O.G. (fats,oils and greases). Every commercial kitchen must have a grease trap, or that stuff will go down the pipes and eventually plug up the sewers.  When that happens, the city/municipalty gets just a wee bit ticked off, it is quite expensive to remove this build-up, so they run a snake (video camera) down the pipes and find out who is the worst offender and make them pay for the removal.  Happens a lot.  Happens a lot  too with suspended greasetraps hanging in underground parking garages, thing overflows and drips on some guy's car and all hell breaks loose. 

 

Minimum size for any place is 55 gal. grease trap, with a formula for so many sinks, floordrains etc for larger sizes.  If the plumbing inspector doesn't see one, or an undersized or rusted out one,  he gets pretty excited until he sees one installed. Believe me, you don't want this guy as your enemy, nor do you wnat city sewer workers knocking on your door with a greasy filtthy snake, looking for a clean-out plug in your kitchen....


I Do have a trap that i have cleaned out every 3 months and they turn it into fertilizer for the farms around here.. I have one underground for the kitchen and one set for the frying grease alone..

post #11 of 18

You don't have a collection bin for used fryer oil that can be sold, or at least picked up for free?

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...."This whole reality thing is really not what I expected it would be"......
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post #12 of 18

In Italy we are required to have a certified "waste oil" collector come and remove our oils and fat drippings, it's not allowed to dump them down the drains. Since the people who come and take it away make bio-diesel out of it, I actually have someone who leaves me the collection containers, picks them up when I call him and even pays me by the kilo to do it!

 

I would imagine whatever residue is going down the drains from washing is so compensated by degreasers and detergents that it's not going to cause any problems. But then you never know do you....

post #13 of 18

Read my post again I said I had one set for frying oil as well.. Any grease from fryers etc goes into that trap and it is sold.

post #14 of 18

You mean you have containers for used fryer oil.

 

A trap is hooked up to your plumbing system and "traps" or separates oil/grease from waste water.

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post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerp View Post

Read my post again I said I had one set for frying oil as well.. Any grease from fryers etc goes into that trap and it is sold.



Read my post again and see what the thread was supposed to be about! :)

post #16 of 18

So, did you talk to the owner?

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post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamS View Post



Read my post again and see what the thread was supposed to be about! :)



WilliamS i did reply to your thread on what it was about sorry if you didnt see that as well.. Scroll up it might help.. I was only posting later on for others whenever the post turned away from the topic which it should not have and im sorry..

post #18 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodpump View Post

So, did you talk to the owner?



 

I did talk to the owner finally after explaining to him that it was pretty urgent. Cut a long story short...I met with him explained my problem and the resolve is now he will also be in the decision making process on what gets spent on the kitchen. :D
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerp View Post



WilliamS i did reply to your thread on what it was about sorry if you didnt see that as well.. Scroll up it might help.. I was only posting later on for others whenever the post turned away from the topic which it should not have and im sorry..

No worriessmile.gif
 

 

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