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Why does Gordon Ramsay do this?

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 

Hey everybody. Got a question for yall.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z5VgGkZdok&feature=related

 

Gordon's making stuffed chicken legs wrapped in bacon in this video. After wrapping it in aluminum foil and poaching it in water, he chills it in the fridge for thirty minutes, then sears the bacon crust, and then serves. I was wondering why he does this? Wouldn't the filling be cold?

post #2 of 41

Basil, wrapping meat with a filling into a "ballotin" as they call such roll, then poach or steam it and then cool it, is done to keep the entire roll in that shape for frying. If you don't poach and cool it, the whole roll won't keep it's shape in the frying pan. Gordon Ramsay is not just searing the bacon, the whole roll has to get warmed through in the pan.

I've done it recently with a stuffed turkey breast but without wrapping it in bacon. Butterfly the breast, pound it gently to flatten out and you can fill it.

 

post #3 of 41

If you don't poach and cool it, the whole roll won't keep it's shape in the frying pan

 

Chris, isn't that what they make kitchen string for?

 

The only time I poach first is if the foodstuff is too soft. For instance, when making fish sausages. But for ballotine type dishes the proteins usually are dense enough for tying.

 

True, wrapping and poaching makes a prettier dish. But it's not a necessary step.

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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #4 of 41

He used the foil instead of the string. Simpler for most home cooks and you won't end up with depressions where people tied it too tightly or deformed it with uneven tying.

 

Most of the high fat fine grind fillings traditional to ballotine would be quite soft.  Where he left the meat on the skin, he probably could have tied it.

 

 

post #5 of 41

Sure, the fillings tend to be soft. But that hardly matters when, as he did, you are wrapping it in two rather firm proteins (chicken and bacon).

 

I'm not arguing against the idea of poaching first. I just don't buy into Chris' implication that it has to be done that way.

 

BTW, when I do pre-poach, I use cling film rather than foil, cuz I don't like the idea of the foil coming in direct contact with the food. No particular justification for that; just a gut feeling.

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #6 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer View Post

 

BTW, when I do pre-poach, I use cling film rather than foil, cuz I don't like the idea of the foil coming in direct contact with the food. No particular justification for that; just a gut feeling.


Then there's the crew who is concerned about the plasticizers migrating to the food. Though at boiling temps, that's not much if at all.

 

I've used plastic wrap with a fish sausage that is poached to set the form.

post #7 of 41

Ky, indeed it makes a nicer tighter shape but most important it gives another softer structure to the meat too. Also, the filling helps to flavor the whole structure. You don't even have to poach a ballotin, the turkey breast I made was first wrapped in parchement paper, then in aluminium sheet and cooked in the oven at low temperature, works perfect too. It's certainly not a "must" that you have to poach a ballotin first.

The filling here is shiitake, Bayonne ham, tiny bit of foie gras, cream cheese, tarragon and a little egg and panko to bind it a little.

 

kalkoenfiletShiitakeBayonne2.jpg kalkoenfiletShiitakeBayonne3.jpg kalkoenfiletShiitakeBayonne4.jpg

post #8 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBelgium View Post

Basil, wrapping meat with a filling into a "ballotin" as they call such roll, then poach or steam it and then cool it, is done to keep the entire roll in that shape for frying. If you don't poach and cool it, the whole roll won't keep it's shape in the frying pan. Gordon Ramsay is not just searing the bacon, the whole roll has to get warmed through in the pan.

I've done it recently with a stuffed turkey breast but without wrapping it in bacon. Butterfly the breast, pound it gently to flatten out and you can fill it.

 



What Chris said. I made that exact recipe and I can tell you, when the ballotin comes out of the poaching water, it's fairly soft and lose, and would be quite difficult to handle in a frying pan. After a bit of time in the fridge, it holds its shape perfectly well, making it easier to sear (while at the same time re-heating the entire ballotin). 

 

Very good tasting ballotin, and an impressive looking result. I recommend it. 

post #9 of 41

That softness, FF, comes from the poaching. Chilling is then needed to firm it up. However, if you wrapped the bacon, then tied the bundle, it sears quite well.

 

The major objection to tying is, as Phil pointed out, the fact that you get the groves from the string, which some people find objectionable. On the upside, on larger cuts, such as a stuffed pork loin or flank steak, the string not only holds everything together, it can be used to mark the cut lines.

 

Again, please don't think I'm promoting one method over the other. I'm just presenting alternatives to a similar end.

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #10 of 41

While I've never tried a balloting seared directly, without poaching first, I would assume the final result to be different in texture. Also, wouldn't the chicken on the outside get overcooked by the time the filling inside is perfectly cooked?

 

Another thing is, with that specific recipe, you want the bacon to be uniformly seared, and certainly the groves created by string would make for slices of ballotin that have perfectly flat, seared bacon on the outside, while other sices have the grove, weirdly shaped bacon outside that's only partially seared, partially steamed. Not appetizing. 

post #11 of 41
Thread Starter 

Ok I see. Thanks a lot guys! I suppose my next question is, what's the difference between a ballotine and a roulade?

post #12 of 41

It's merely a technical difference, Basil. A ballotine consists of three or more proteins. In this recipe, for instance, you have the filling, wrapped by chicken, wrapped by bacon. While a roulade can be made that way, they're generally just the main protein wrapped around a filling---which itself does not have to be a protein.

 

Rouldades are usually done in individual portions as well, whereas ballotines have no such restrictions.  

 

 

They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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They have taken the oath of the brother in blood, in leavened bread and salt. Rudyard Kipling
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post #13 of 41

Ky, the difference of both can easily be explained by the translation of both terms.

Ballotin means purse or pouch. For instance a filling of minced meat wrapped in a cabbage leaf is also a ballotin. Let's generalise that a ballotin is a small wrapped package.

Roulade is deviated -as you may expect- from the french verb "rouler" which means "to roll" in english. So, even a piece of meat rolled up and tied with a string with no outer wrapping or packing material such as aluminium foil, is a roulade.

 

To be short, Gorden Ramsay makes a roulade of chicken and prepares it as a ballotin, using aluminium foil as wrapping material.

post #14 of 41

I didn't watch the video but it sounds more like a galantine.

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post #15 of 41

Ramsay's dish is a boned out leg, served hot, and served alone; therefore it's a ballotine. 

 

BDL

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post #16 of 41

 

Papillote ( in Spanish ) a word which hails from the south of France, is a common culinary method for a sort of oven poaching --- or steaming in oven, a method of sealing in the juices when cooking. There is a special parchment type cooking paper or aluminum foil used for this. I have prepared fresh fish with vegetables / tubers and a drizzle of olive oil and a sprinkle of sea salt for a very simple labor day work week lunch. Many Spanish Chefs use this method as well. Furthermore, it can used with uncountable ingredients and is simple and easy.   

post #17 of 41

 

You Tube:  Lovely recipe, looks quite delectable ... The stuffed chicken with pistachios and bacon,  is called a " Roti " in Spanish and this method seals in all your moisture ... The wrapping in aluminum or parchment is Papillote as previously mentioned.

 

I  shall definitely try it one of these days.

 

  

post #18 of 41

Ramsay's wrapping is not -- from a culinary standpoint -- "en papillote," which is sealing food into a paper and/or foil packet so as to get it gently steam in the oven -- and then, when unwrapped on the diner's plate, have it release it's aromatic steam and excite her sense of smell and palate. 

 

What he's doing is something like "torchon," which is wrapping in a towel and poaching so as to get something to hold a cylindrical shape.  It's what you do with foie gras.  I'm not sure if the foil technique has it's own name or not.    

 

In addition to not being en papillote, It's also not "roti," which translates -- again, from a strict culinary standpoint -- as "roulade."  Ramsay's dish can only be called a roulade in the loosest sense.  More, a roti is not the same as something cooked en papillote. 

 

If we're going to use these terms in their strict culinary sense, then we should use them in their strict culinary sense.  In that restricted context, a ballotine is not a galantine is not a roulade.

 

A galantine is coated in aspic and served cold.  A roulade is browned before it's braised.  A ballotine can be served hot or cold, but is usually served hot.  Ballotines are usually not served as the main course, nor are they usually served with much in the way of accompanying garnish.  Here we'd use them as an "app," but in a French foraml dinner, they'd usually be an entree.

 

Hope this helps,

BDL

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post #19 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post

...

If we're going to use these terms in their strict culinary sense, then we should use them in their strict culinary sense.  In that restricted context, a ballotine is not a galantine is not a roulade.

...

BDL



That's so funny that you posted what you did when you did BDL.

 

I just got done writing an article covering the differences between saute, sautuese, and sautoir and more broadly using culinary terms in their proper context.

 

To the OP, as has been pointed out, you're merely heating up the dish and crisping the bacon at the same time before slicing and presenting.

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post #20 of 41

From The New Larousse Gastronomique  " Ballotine - Galantine normally served as a hot entree; it can also be served cold. "

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post #21 of 41

 

@ Boar,

 

Thanks for your " coaching "  and explanations.

 

Yes, that is correct: papillote; when u open a foil all the aromas consume ur senses. Lovely way to prepare fish with ginger or tomato & Italian seasoning or Provence style  too ... Healthy too ...

 

Roti : this is rotisserie I believe, as it is a stuffed meat that u prepare in oven with either some wine or water at bottom of cooking vessel, sort of a braising process with basting involved. Roti is a meat or poultry item stuffed and cooked in its own juices --- via oven. I would have to check my dictionaries to confirm --- however, it is also a French word, and so is Papillote.

 

Kind regards, 

Margcata.

post #22 of 41

The accepted practice today is roll the ballontine or roulade  in plastic wrap then poach or steam, then saute or whatever.. Gallantines , which I have made many times ar generally large covered with Sauce Chaud-froid then in aspic., sliced and served cold.Ballontines are usually individually made and are served warm or hot with sauce under or over them.

Roullades are often served in sauce sometime called birds(ie veal birds)

In fish sometime called roll-mops(ie herring)

 In ethnic cooking like ,Braccole  in sauce.

      I don't like using foil on any food, as in many cases it has a taste and visual reaction.

En Paupette used to be cooking in oiled or buttered  paper bags (ex Pompano en paupette) today they use siliconed or vege.parchment paper. It is sometimes refered to as cooked  in a pillow and opened by the server at your table in the dining room.

Chef EdB
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      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
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      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #23 of 41

I don't see why this needs to be so complicated. I certainly stick to my logical and easy to understand explanation in post 13.

 

A rôti is not another word for a roulade at all, nor is it a braise, it's a roast, mostly a solid piece of meat. Like to roast a roulade? Please do. 

Rôti is from the verb rôtir which simply means "to roast". The "accent circonflexe" on the o, the letter ô, means there's a letter missing after the ô, namely the "s". This means that rôti was spelled rosti in ancient times but the "s" is no longer pronounced, just like "fenêtre" was originally spelled fenestre, but more important, rôti or rosti in ancient french, is where the english word roast finds its origine. In spanish it's "carne asada" or more usual "asado".

A papilotte has nothing to do with a ballotin.

 

post #24 of 41

Um, help?

 

My references define the following:

  • papillote- French for the paper frill used to decorate tips of rib bones
  • en papilllote - French for food baked inside a wrapping of greased parchment paper
  • paupiette - a thin slice of meat, usually beef or veal, rolled around a stuffing of finely ground meat or vegetables, then fried, baked, or braised, sometimes wrapped in bacon, also called roulades
  • roti - an unleavened Indian bread
  • rôti - French for roast or roasted
  • ballotine - meat, fish, or fowl, that has been boned , stuffed, rolled and tied in the shape of a bundle. It is then braised or roasted and normally served hot but may be served cold.
  • galantine - resembles a meat-wrapped pâté. meat, fish, or fowl that has been boned, stuffed with forcemeat...and poached, glazed with aspic, garnished, and served cold.
  • roulade- French term for thin slice of meat rolled around a filling such as mushrooms, breadcrumbs, cheese, or a mixture of vegetables, cheese, or meat. The rolled package is secured with string or a wooden pick and then browned before being baked(roasted) or braised.

 

Now, I'm old and crotchety, but I'm still willing to correct my definitions if someone is willing to step forward and point me in the correct direction.

Chef,
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post #25 of 41

Pete,

 

Old and crotchelty your not, but "right" is what you are. Nicely defined.

 

Petals.

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post #26 of 41

If I'm not mistaken, Margacata referred to the Spanish, rather than the French roti. 

The stuffed chicken with pistachios and bacon,  is called a " Roti " in Spanish

 

She further explained in a subsequent post,

Roti is a meat or poultry item stuffed and cooked in its own juices --- via oven.

 

It was to that usage I responded and compared her Spanish roti to a French roulade. 

 

BDL

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post #27 of 41

Ah so, one never stops learning, do they?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post

If I'm not mistaken, Margacata referred to the Spanish, rather than the French roti...


 

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post #28 of 41

Pete my error enpapillot is the one cooked in the papar bag  or in modern day parchment paper.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #29 of 41

Just in case someone still thinks otherwise, the spanish roti is identical to the french rôti. Roti is actually written rotí in spanish with an accent on the "i" to emphasyse its prononciation is also identical to the french prononciation of the french word. If it were a spanish word, there wouldn't be an accent on it at all, since it ends on a vowel (trust me, I know) and the emphasis would have been on the "o" instead of the "í", making it sound nothing like a french word...

 

Just in case there's more dought, here's a preparation called "asado de rotí de ternera" which is a veal roast. I mentioned in my previous post that asado means roast. There's a lot of pictures just in case there's any more dought left;  http://www.tadforo.com/asado-de-roti-de-ternera-t22970.html

 

For those interested, a braise in spanish is called "estofado" in which you might recognize the english word "stew" with a little imagination. I believe there's even a very similar Greek word too (stifado or something like that).

post #30 of 41

Geeze Chris...  Margcata lives in Spain and lives and writes food, so I thought had some idea of what she was talking about.  But of course, you know better.  For her and for me I thank you for the correction.

 

BDL

 

 

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