Good o'Croissants advice

It's been many years since I've made croissants, but I remember the tension between enough warmth to get the yeast active before baking, and enough chilling to keep the dough tractable and the butter from melting during the rolling and shaping.  

 

It sounds from your account like the main problem was not enough rising after shaping and before baking -- in that case you still get the layers -- because you've done your turns and rolling well -- but the croissants are a bit dense.

 

The recipe I remember using, Julia Child's, specified a dough using milk, for softness, and lowish-gluten four, mainly for ease in rolling out. 

 

How was the dough before you incorporated the butter?  Did it get an initial rise?  While not all recipes call for this, I would get a good doubling in volume before chilling the dough to receive the butter, and be sure it had good texture -- it will be on the soft side, but it should still have that elastic spongy character of a happy bread dough.

I agree with Colin, get a good rise before adding the butter-it slows down the proving process-and it is important to get a good first prove.

 

Try this:

 

• Make the dough, leave to prove overnight in the fridge covered with cling film or wrapped in a plastic bag.
• Then the next day add the butter and follow straight away with book turn. wrap in a bag again and
• Return to the fridge for about 45minutes (or approx 15 minutes in the freezer)
• Follow with a single turn and wrap in a bag again and return to fridge ( 45minutes) or freezer (15 minutes approx)
• Then roll out to desired thickness and cut into shapes
• Place on trays and leave until double in size

 

Good luck

Edited by cakeface - 1/22/12 at 5:02am

The low-gluten route Julia Child suggests is a combination of pastry flour and all-purpose.  She does this mainly to ease the rolling-out process, because the gluten will fight you.  My experience is that small breads in general don't need high gluten content, so long as there's enough kneading to get you a good smooth elastic dough.

 

OTOH, here's Txfarmer at The Fresh Loaf using bread flour and doing lots of kneading and showing great-looking results, though acknowledging that rolling was tougher.  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/25291/julia-child039s-croissant-major-overhaul

 

Standard unbleached flour should work well enough, though.  This is fine-tuning, and the flour is not the source of your trouble. 

 

My guess is that the shorter the time between the first rise pre-butter, and baking, the better for the liveliness of the yeast.  Notice that Cakeface is not chilling any longer than is necessary to soften the dough for the next roll-out.  

 

How many turns?  Julia Child calls for four bookfolds (3^4, or 81 layers of butter).  Txfarmer's revamp does three (3^3 or 27 layers); Cakeface suggests even fewer.  So I think nine turns is overkill.  

 

 

 

 

PS Bernard Clayton, who I've always found reliable, calls for all-purpose flour and does three bookturns.  

 

_Bernard Clayton's Book of Small Breads_ is available used for a few dollars on Amazon and describes the method in detail.  

hi, your rolling pin shouldn't make any difference-maybe its become a little stained over time and maybe giving a tinge to the dough
Dont roll the dough over 3days as colin said the yeast will have no rise in it leftafter you've shaped them.

Re: the flour. You often see recipes for the flour colin suggests-t55 we'd call it. Strong/bread flour ie t65 can be used too but the dough can tear on the surface during cooking sometimes. You're less likely to get this with t55 but you can use a recipe with some butter in the base dough when using t65 and it shouldn't tear.

I made croissants etc everyday for years in my bakery i used the double and single turn because it gives great results and is less time consuming
If you want my recipe let me know

Sounds good, Shin L, and the flour mix sounds reasonable.  You'll get a feel for how much rolling you can do before it needs to rest.  Whereabouts are you?  (Thinking about flour sources.)

hi, sent you a pm. Let us know how this batch turn out

Hi, I've only just found this forum! I'm a keen and experienced home baker.

 

I live in Spain and know from experience that even with every other thing the same, if the flour is not right the whole croissant experience can be affected. For those who are new to making them, I would recommend using a stronger flour to begin with (around 12% protein) and taking it easy on the kneading (I do 3 min on speed 1, then 3 on speed 2). The reason for this is that I found when I had a poor batch of flour, the croissant dough would tear during the final rise or, at the very least, the croissants would rise and then collapse after about 10 min in the oven. If you find the pastries turn out well but are perhaps not tender enough, you can use a softer flour until you get the right result.

Since I have not been able to use American flours, I can't recommend a type and of course, there is no way for me to know (apart from the label) how strong my flour actually is.

I had, for example been using a 10% flour quite happily for about a year, when all of a sudden I couldn't bake anything well with it! Changed up to a 12% of the same brand, and lo and behold, things went back to normal.

At the moment I am trying out some T55 flour (but I did notice it is made in Spain, not France). I shall find out in the next day or so, how good it is for croissants. I use block yeast for croissants, instant for all other doughs.

As for the rest, i make the dough, rest it straight away in the fridge overnight. Do the rolling and folding in the morning, chill for a few hours and can bake in the evening or next day. I use envelope fold, book then another envelope.

Great news!

 

If you're near an urban area in Australia you should be able to find more flours.  My Granny lived in Sydney and baked up a storm.

 

Re flakiness you might try slightly higher temperatures.  If you're using a standard recipe there's probably enough butter ... but cakeface will have better advice.

 

Have you tried brioche yet?  A nice addition to the repertoire of buttery little breads, and much easier than croissants.  

Shin Louis,

 

Looking at your baking time it appears a little short (unless you are making small croissants).  I swapped from using a fan setting on the oven to using the normal top and bottom heat - with the fan oven, the outside was browning long before the insides were properly cooked. Next time, divide your croissants into several trays and try adjusting the baking temp, noting which were done with what. I have found that for large croissants in my oven, 200c for around 25 min is about right, baking only one tray at a time for best results. They should be well browned but not burnt.

 

The ones I baked yesterday came out fine with T55 flour ( also labelled 10%). Think I got a slightly better rise from ones made with what is supposedly 14% (although in reality that figure may not be accurate!)  In theory, you risk a tough pastry with the higher gluten flour but the only time hubby complained of that was when (insert sigh) he MICROWAVED a baked croissant to warm it, in spite of being told he shouldn't do that!

Shin Louis,

 

Below is the link to my website with the croissant recipe I use - click on 'pictures/photos'  and get more thumbnails, click on those to get larger pics.

http://www.sandrascookbook.com/recipe.php?id=117

 

If your small oven has a good thermostat it should not make too  much difference that it is small but I suggest doing just a couple of croissant in there to start. You can make your batch as normal, get them to be rolled, shaped and puffed up on the tray but then put any you don't bake in the fridge until you have done the first ones and know how the temp is. Then, put the remaining ones out at room temp for 15 min before baking. Does that make sense? You are therefore getting them all to bake stage but retarding most of them to avoid over proofing while you fiddle around with baking the first ones.

 

The only failures I have had have been due to erratic flour quality (nearly drove me mad) and my fridge conking out while my dough was in it over night! Let us know how you get on, not enough people make their own croissants!

Shin Louis,

 

Below is the link to my website with the croissant recipe I use - click on 'pictures/photos'  and get more thumbnails, click on those to get larger pics.

http://www.sandrascookbook.com/recipe.php?id=117

 

If your small oven has a good thermostat it should not make too  much difference that it is small but I suggest doing just a couple of croissant in there to start. You can make your batch as normal, get them to be rolled, shaped and puffed up on the tray but then put any you don't bake in the fridge until you have done the first ones and know how the temp is. Then, put the remaining ones out at room temp for 15 min before baking. Does that make sense? You are therefore getting them all to bake stage but retarding most of them to avoid over proofing while you fiddle around with baking the first ones.

 

The only failures I have had have been due to erratic flour quality (nearly drove me mad) and my fridge conking out while my dough was in it over night! Let us know how you get on, not enough people make their own croissants!

Shin Louis,

 

Below is the link to my website with the croissant recipe I use - click on 'pictures/photos'  and get more thumbnails, click on those to get larger pics.

http://www.sandrascookbook.com/recipe.php?id=117

 

If your small oven has a good thermostat it should not make too  much difference that it is small but I suggest doing just a couple of croissant in there to start. You can make your batch as normal, get them to be rolled, shaped and puffed up on the tray but then put any you don't bake in the fridge until you have done the first ones and know how the temp is. Then, put the remaining ones out at room temp for 15 min before baking. Does that make sense? You are therefore getting them all to bake stage but retarding most of them to avoid over proofing while you fiddle around with baking the first ones.

 

The only failures I have had have been due to erratic flour quality (nearly drove me mad) and my fridge conking out while my dough was in it over night! Let us know how you get on, not enough people make their own croissants!

Shin Louis,

 

Below is the link to my website with the croissant recipe I use - click on 'pictures/photos'  and get more thumbnails, click on those to get larger pics.

http://www.sandrascookbook.com/recipe.php?id=117

 

If your small oven has a good thermostat it should not make too  much difference that it is small but I suggest doing just a couple of croissant in there to start. You can make your batch as normal, get them to be rolled, shaped and puffed up on the tray but then put any you don't bake in the fridge until you have done the first ones and know how the temp is. Then, put the remaining ones out at room temp for 15 min before baking. Does that make sense? You are therefore getting them all to bake stage but retarding most of them to avoid over proofing while you fiddle around with baking the first ones.

 

The only failures I have had have been due to erratic flour quality (nearly drove me mad) and my fridge conking out while my dough was in it over night! Let us know how you get on, not enough people make their own croissants!

Shin Louis,

 

Below is the link to my website with the croissant recipe I use - click on 'pictures/photos'  and get more thumbnails, click on those to get larger pics.

http://www.sandrascookbook.com/recipe.php?id=117

 

If your small oven has a good thermostat it should not make too  much difference that it is small but I suggest doing just a couple of croissant in there to start. You can make your batch as normal, get them to be rolled, shaped and puffed up on the tray but then put any you don't bake in the fridge until you have done the first ones and know how the temp is. Then, put the remaining ones out at room temp for 15 min before baking. Does that make sense? You are therefore getting them all to bake stage but retarding most of them to avoid over proofing while you fiddle around with baking the first ones.

 

The only failures I have had have been due to erratic flour quality (nearly drove me mad) and my fridge conking out while my dough was in it over night! Let us know how you get on, not enough people make their own croissants!

Shin Louis,

 

Below is the link to my website with the croissant recipe I use - click on 'pictures/photos'  and get more thumbnails, click on those to get larger pics.

http://www.sandrascookbook.com/recipe.php?id=117

 

If your small oven has a good thermostat it should not make too  much difference that it is small but I suggest doing just a couple of croissant in there to start. You can make your batch as normal, get them to be rolled, shaped and puffed up on the tray but then put any you don't bake in the fridge until you have done the first ones and know how the temp is. Then, put the remaining ones out at room temp for 15 min before baking. Does that make sense? You are therefore getting them all to bake stage but retarding most of them to avoid over proofing while you fiddle around with baking the first ones.

 

The only failures I have had have been due to erratic flour quality (nearly drove me mad) and my fridge conking out while my dough was in it over night! Let us know how you get on, not enough people make their own croissants!

sorry for above repeat posts, I kept getting the message that it had not been sent to server and to try again  - which of course I did, again and again.......:(

Soft butter can cause trouble, it needs to be supple enough to bend it over the edge of a worktop I suppose the nearest thing I can describe it to is like a piece of rolled Plasticine. If it is too hard, it will break off into lumps when rolled into the dough instead of staying in a sheet. Too soft and it gets messy and leaks out.

 

Where do you live, in a hot or cold climate? I can give closer guidelines if I know the approx temp of your kitchen!  For example, my kitchen can go from 15c in winter to 38c in summer and that makes a BIG difference in proofing and resting times.

 

Hmm, I guess the kitchen being cold is not one of your problems in baking! I did try making croissants once when the kitchen was 38c but decided after one attempt that it was not a good idea!

Glad you got a good result this time!  Once you find a method and ingredients that work for you, you can stick to it. Makes life easier!

Edit: it looks like the comment I was responding to has disappeared. Someone asked for a chocolate croissant recipe.

 

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The basic idea is a standard croissant dough wrapped around the chocolate of your choice -- I don't know if it needs an extra recipe.  Once you have the croissant dough ready to shape, you can make bear claws or anything else your imagination can come up with.  

 

You could try a version with less butter, though ...  for me, FWIW YMMV etc., a full-butter croissant PLUS chocolate is way too much fat, and I'm not even talking about health concerns -- it's unbalanced in terms of taste and texture.  Elizabeth David has a petit pains au chocolat recipe that just uses a simple, light, partly whole wheat bread dough that I used to make around sticks of Mexican chocolate.  Fresh whole wheat goes well with chocolate, and the Mexican stuff has a nice funky texture.  That way you get the full blast of the warm chocolate against a more subdued background, rather than dealing with both the intense buttery flakiness of a croissant and the melty chocolate experience at the same time.

Edited by Colin - 2/7/12 at 7:52am