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My breakfast bread

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 

Well with lots of help from here thumb.gif, a bread baking half day course, and 3 months with the odd failure I’ve ended up with the recipe and method below.  It lasts 4-5 days in a plastic bag in the bread bin and makes great breakfast toast with butter and marmalade (and the wife likes it wink.gif).  If it was the only bread I ate for the rest of my days I wouldn’t complain.  But:

 

I’d like it to smell even more bready (perhaps I mean yeasty if you know what I mean).

I’d like to develop a few variations (can’t do nuts by the way).

I may have over complicated the method (e.g. carbonated water, water in oven) as I refined it along the way. 

 

Anyone any thoughts on how I might develop this further?    Any ideas greatly received.

 

500g Strong white bread flour

250g Strong wholemeal flour

250g Strong brown bread flour

50g sunflower seed

50g pumkin seed

20g linseed

80g organic spelt flakes  (only because I have a large bag of them)

18g fine table salt (tried to reduce this but it needs it for my taste buds)

10g  dried active yeast

650 cl carbonated water

 

Mix all the dry except yeast.  Mix in yeast (I was told to keep the salt away from the yeast).  Mix in water, form the dough, and knead the dough by hand for 12 mins (highlight of my week smile.gif)..

 

Leave covered in boiler cupboard (not too warm) until doubled (about 2 hours).  Chop into 3 and mould but with little handling and place in buttered bread tins.  Another doubling, about 1.5 hours.

 

Large bowl of boiling water in bottom of oven.  35 mins at 185C in my fan assisted (tx. for the help here in getting that temp. down thumb.gif).

post #2 of 12

Looks very tasty!  Thanks for posting.  What does the carbonated water do?

 

You might see if a second rise before putting it in the tins changes the texture and taste.

post #3 of 12

Agree Colin, it looks very good.

 

Doesn't the water ( bain marie ) accelerate the yeast process ?

 

When making cinnamon buns,  I can cut the time in half by adding the water bath.

 

just a thought....

 

 

ps. I would like to try your recipe, thank you for sharing it.

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

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(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
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Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
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post #4 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin View Post

Looks very tasty!  Thanks for posting.  What does the carbonated water do?

 

You might see if a second rise before putting it in the tins changes the texture and taste.


Colin I moved to carbonated water when the 'crumb' (I think that means the holes smile.gif) were rather small (reminds me of a Beatles song).  It seemed to give a more open bread although still of the substantial type.  Hope that makes sense.

 

At the suggestion of yet another helpful soul here I will try deferred fermentation.  Great thing about that is that I can do half and half and get a real comparison.  I'll also try a free form loaf on an open baking tray which will thus be along the lines of your suggestion.

 

petalsandcoco go steady now, I'm only a novice.  More this  drinkbeer.gif than that chef.gif 

 

But for sure this bread making is great fun.  I can't wait to use up the last batch so I can get going on the next.  Enjoy and tx for your comments guys.

 

 

 

post #5 of 12

Nigele,

 

Your terrific ! I really enjoy your spirit here. There are many members here with years of experience on bread making. Trial by error sometimes but the way you have it figured out , well, I would be most happy to try the recipe myself.

 

Thank you for you comments, look forward to many more.

 

Petals.

 

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
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Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
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post #6 of 12

Add 30 - 60 ml honey to your recipe; brown sugar in a similar amount will work as well.  For that matter you could use golden syrup, agave syrup or white sugar.  You could probably use effin' (see I speak British) treacle.  Make your choice according to taste, but the purpose of adding it is more about bread chemistry than anything else.  Oh. Wait.  Better tasting bread is important, too!

 

Salt is a necessary part of bread making.  Don't sweat the tiny amount you're using.  Jeeze!  The things people find to feel guilty about!

 

I'm always frightened by novice bread makers who scale everything instead of volume measuring.  There's nothing wrong with scaling, but don't be fooled by it either.  Establishing the proper hydration for small bread recipes is as much a matter of touch and observation as measuring -- and since conditions change, you can never be really exact.  Start with 1/2L of water, and add more -- however much it takes to bring the dries together as a slightly slack mass before turning it out for knead.  It will further hydrate as you knead.  I think you'll find that your bread takes between 550 and 650cl of water, depending kitchen humidity and temperature. 

 

If at some point you have to ask yourself how it is that the people who write recipes always come out with their ingredients in even amounts -- you'll realize there's a lot of "sorta" in almost every recipes -- including bread.

 

Presumably you're using a professional type of instant yeast such as the UK equivalent of SAF Red.  If you're not, you should be.  Instant yeast is freeze dried and dormant; it won't interact with salt until it's revived by moisture.  Whoever told you (presumably the baking class teacher) that adding the instant yeast and water at the same time as opposed to adding the instant yeast with the other dries (including salt) doesn't understand how that part of modern bread making works. 

 

I find it's a good idea to make most recipes by hand from beginning to end (including the mixing and kneading) the first time I try them -- rather than using my stand mixer (or even a spoon) because feeling good hydration is easier than seeing it.  But that's me.  In any case, slacker doughs usually develop more open textures; but at 88% hydration according to your recipe, you don't want it any slacker -- in fact, you probably want it slightly stiffer.

 

Remember what I said about novice bakers scaling?  It's equally if not more alarming that you haven't described what you're feeling and seeing.

 

If you're using a stand mixer, properly hydrated stiff dough will clear the bowl walls and perhaps leave a tiny amount of flaky, dry dough at the bottom.  Or, a slack dough will clear the bottom completely and try to stick to the mixer walls, but not quite make it.  By feel -- a stiff dough picks everything up but feels dry to the touch; a slack dough feels tacky but workable.  And just for reference:  A very slack dough -- as for focaccia -- leaves you wondering whether it's workable or not. 

 

Don't bother with the carbonated water, you can get a decent crumb and more open structure with a little more knead time.  Because doughs with a high proportion of whole grain flours have proportionally less gluten, it's not as easy to tell if they've reached the "window pane" stage or not, but you still want to try for it -- and translucent or not your tester should stretch very, very thin. 

 

A second rise between first rise and formation will also make for a lighter texture and more open structure.

 

So does "touch."  Don't punch the dough down too hard between the first and second rise; in fact, don't punch it down at all, use a "French fold." 

 

Be as gentle as possible during loaf formation.  When you form, try and keep as much gas in the dough as possible; and not to smash the little cells (formed by the gas bubbles) so hard that their walls stick together. 

 

You usually don't need a water pan in the oven unless you want to develop a crispy, chewy crust -- which you don't particularly want and is difficult to get from a bread pan loaf anyway. 

 

Like Petals, I'm concerned about your rise time.  It's going very slowly.  Whether your yeast is tired, your water and/or house temps are too cold, or you're over-rising and the dough is becoming flabby, or...   Using warm (baby bottle about) water, instead of tap or shelf temperature water will help with the first rise; and so will the honey. 

 

A retarded rise in the refrigerator will help develop flavor, but won't get you a much better texture.  It won't hurt either. It's primary benefit as far as I'm concerned is allowing you to bake first thing in the morning.

 

Try and remember that people try and make bread making much harder than it is.  You're already doing well, you'll be doing better soon.

 

BDL


Edited by boar_d_laze - 1/24/12 at 7:56am
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post #7 of 12
Thread Starter 

BDL a wealth of info there and thanks very very much.

 

I had noted many people, including those here, using sweet ingredients – if I can put it that way.  But for now I will hold off that route, although be assured it is in the little grey cells.  (by the way your english is very good.   We'll have you drinking proper beer next  drinkbeer.gif)

 

Salt is a necessary part of bread making.  Don't sweat the tiny amount you're using.  Jeeze!  The things people find to feel guilty about!

 

Not guilt I can assure you.  But my wife and I do try to consider health issues.  My salt intake is above that recommended and I take every opportunity to reduce it.  Salt recommended by many researchers is 6g per day so I do my best.

 

I go for all your comments on measuring and ‘touch and feel’.  Not sure why random volumes are better than precise weighing to get started on a new recipe?

 

"Presumably you're using a professional type of instant”  Yup.

 

"Whoever told you (presumably the baking class teacher) that adding the instant yeast and water at the same time as opposed to adding the instant yeast with the other dries (including salt) doesn't understand how that part of modern bread making works.” 

 

 Perhaps I wasn't clear.  It was the yeast and the salt coming into direct contact prior to mixing. 

  

rather than using my stand mixer” – what is one of them??? smile.gif

 

but at 88% hydration according to your recipe, you don't want it any slacker -- in fact, you probably want it slightly stiffer.

 

Tx for that.  It is what I thought.  At first I found myself flouring the surface and knew this must be wrong.  Now I can knead on the oak surface without problems.  I guess I’m getting to know the stiffness I’m looking for – or should be looking for.

 

 “Remember what I said about novice bakers scaling?  It's equally if not more alarming that you haven't described what you're feeling and seeing.” 

 

I’ll write you 'war and peace' next time lol.gif

 

Don't bother with the carbonated water, you can get a decent crumb and more open structure with a little more knead time.” 

 

Brilliant chef.gif.  Didn’t know the relationship but I’ll be working on that. 

 

A second rise between first rise and formation will also make for a lighter texture and more open structure.

 

Presumably that means three rises? 

 

So does "touch."  Don't punch the dough down too hard between the first and second rise; in fact, don't punch it down at all, use a "French fold." "

 

The course I went on covered that one but earlier I did love that rushing escape of air when I tried Spanish rustic bread.  Great sensation.

 

 “Like Petals, I'm concerned about your rise time.  It's going very slowly.  Whether your yeast is tired, your water and/or house temps are too cold,

 

We’re in winter here and even the boiler cupboard offers little more than room temperature.  But I have tried to focus on the doubling rather than the time. 

 

A retarded rise in the refrigerator will help develop flavor, but won't get you a much better texture.  It won't hurt either. It's primary benefit as far as I'm concerned is allowing you to bake first thing in the morning.” 

 

And my problem is leaving it to the morning and not getting on and cutting that fresh hot bread, dribbled with butter, and ...........  crazy.gif

 

Try and remember that people try and make bread making much harder than it is.  You're already doing well, you'll be doing better soon.

 

 With all the help here BDL I think you are right.  Muchas gracias thumb.gif


Edited by nigele2 - 1/24/12 at 9:36am
post #8 of 12

Nigel,

 

Great reply.  You're making this fun.  A damn good thing I don't get paid.

 

Honey and other "real" sweeteners will help feed and stimulate the yeast, which in turn will make for a lighter texture.  I should have been clearer.  Obviously you don't have to use a sweetener, but it will make your bread's chemistry function better.  You're using jam anyway, why not give it a try?

 

I'm not sure if you could store modern, professional-type instant yeast in salt without harming it, but you can certainly mix them both into the dries at the same time without inhibiting the yeast.  In fact, that's what it was developed for.

 

Often people who scale place too much reliance on scaling accurately according to recipe and not enough on "touch" to get hydration right.  You're not one of them.  Good.

 

You seem to be very careful about keeping the amount of (commercial) yeast down.  Why?  Have you ever used a poolish, biga, sourdough or other form of preferment?   Using a yeast preferment is one way of getting the most out of a given amount of the wee beasties. 

 

I'm no virgin when it comes to English beer, something of an enthusiast, but alas not an expert.  Must practice.  The difficulty here is not finding good English beer, not even finding good English beer on draught from proper English taps; but finding decent English pub food -- even things as simple as fish in chips in the same establishments as those verdammt Englisch taps. 

 

Speaking of the damné Anglaise, whether or not it translates into English is an open question, but you might want to take a look at The Fresh Loaf.  It's the best online bread site in American.

 

BDL

 


Edited by boar_d_laze - 1/24/12 at 11:52am
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post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 

BDL to compensate for your lack of the real brown stuff [ I live in a small English village with three pubs that boast 10+ different real ales at any one time drinkbeer.gif and two offer beer batter fish and chips ] I am going to go for your honey additive.  Why not.  You only live once.  And I get an inkling that you might know more about this bread business than you're letting on wink.gif

 

Enjoy whatever and I will be back with results very soon.

post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 

Well I hate threads that ask a lot of questions and you never see the results.  It's like a detective novel with the last page ripped out.  So here is the last page of my current project which would have not had such results without the encouragement and support here.  [And I must add a special thank you to KYHeirloomer who behind the scenes offered some brilliant 'observation-analysis-strategy' stuff which led to most of the major breakthroughs].

 

And the final corrections to the recipe if anyone really wants to try my idea of breakfast bread - although it won't be everyone's cup of tea.

 

Here the dough three attempts before the final version.  It had 200gms of Spelt flakes and seeds which called I felt for more water.  This was later reduced to 150gms and the water reduced down to 520 cls and gave better results.

 

Dough

 

And the result from that dough.

 

With 200gms of seeds and Spelt flakes (later reduced)

 

With reduced seeds and water this is after the final rise (not deferred)

 

525

 

And the result.  It is just straight out of the oven without cooling.  The crust was not tough but crispy.  The crumb more open which was what I was looking for in the final three runs.

 

 

P1300308.JPG

 

And below the final dough with deferred fermentation (20 hours in the fridge).  As it cooked you could smell it throughout the house (much more so than before).

 

P1300308.JPG

 

Well I will tweak it forward from here but I now need to move on to other types of bread.  But certainly learned a lot about the process and enjoyed every minute of it.

 

The final recipe:

 

500g Strong white bread flour

250g Strong wholemeal flour

250g Strong brown bread flour

40g sunflower seed

40g pumkin seed

20g linseed

50g organic spelt flakes  (only because I have a large bag of them)

18g fine table salt (tried to reduce this but it needs it for my taste buds)

2.5 teaspoons of dried active yeast  (maybe could be reduced a little)

520 cl carbonated water (A little less if all goes well)

 

Mix all the dry except yeast.  Mix in yeast (I was told to keep the salt away from the yeast).  Mix in water, form the dough, and knead the dough by hand for 12 mins (highlight of my week smile.gif)..

 

Leave covered in boiler cupboard (not too warm) until doubled (about 2 hours).  Chop into 2 and mould but with little handling and place in buttered bread tins.  Another doubling, about 1.5 hours or deferred fermentation in fridge for 20 hours.

 

Large bowl of boiling water in bottom of oven.  30 mins at 180C in my fan assisted

 


Edited by nigele2 - 1/30/12 at 11:01am
post #11 of 12

Nigel,

 

I would like to thank you for taking the time to post those pictures. Your bread looks terrific and tasty.

 

Your recipe has :

40g sunflower seed

40g pumkin seed

20g linseed

50g organic spelt flakes

 

Products I really enjoy in a bread. I make a bread at work before leaving called " no knead "....toss the ingredients in a bowl, refrigerate and in the morning bake.

 

Love your cutting board.

 

Petals.

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply

Petals
Réalisé avec un soupçon d'amour.

Served Up
(165 photos)
Wine and Cheese
(62 photos)
 
Reply
post #12 of 12

Nigele,

 

Thank you for posting your experience with this, and the awesome pictures of the results.  I enjoy making bread at home, and I fully intend to try out your recipe here soon.  I'm certain it will be as tasty as it looks!

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