Beginner Home Cook Knife Recommendations

... Before anyone gets all out of shape ... I'm joking here. 

Can you give an indication as to what "breaking the bank" would entail? A max budget in mind? It'll help those in the know here.

"Anything better than a Wal-Mart knife" leaves a lot of room.  I know a dude who makes knives (he's really a sharpener), where you can get a 10", wide chef's knife for 12 bucks that's probably better than most anything you'd likely buy at Wal-Mart.  But then, what's "better" to you?

Sharpening is key.  A crappy dull knife is on par with a stupidly expensive dull knife.  And if your plan is to get somebody at a local Farmer's Market with a truck and belt grinder to sharpen your knives, then... chances are it's a really good plan if you want to spend $12 on a knife.  If you want to spend $200 on a knife, you (in all likelihood) need a better sharpening plan.

- steel: kind of steel will go a ways to determining edge-taking and edge-holding properties.  So this involves how sharp a knife will get, but also how easy it is to sharpen.  If you're sharpening knives yourself, both of those things matter.  (Geometry and heat treatment of the steel, matter here, too).

- profile: you may have no preference, but this is another factor when deciding.  What's the shape of the knife? Does it suit your "action" (how much belly do you want, how much 'flat'?). How tall?

- Geometry, but I'll leave that for the "steel" section

- Weight

-Handle type

- Fit and finish

- visual appeal

I think most of this doesn't matter to you, since anything better than what you find at Wal-Mart is going to be ok.  What DOES matter a lot is your ability to sharpen, or willingness to learn to sharpen, or plan to get and keep a knife sharp.  If you have that piece clarified, then you can clarify how important edge-retention is to you, too.

I'm spouting at random, here.  There are more organized posts throughout this forum in helping someone "new" to the thought process.  But the only next step I can think of is to throw out some names of the less expensive knives that more or less well-liked.  And then that would take all kinds of caveats.

OK, I'll start.  Forschner Fibrox (or Rosewood handle) chef's knives are good bang for the buck.  Only consensus is that the profile sort of sucks on the chef's knives.  And edge retention isn't great, but that's going to be par for the course if you want to spend not much, and it might not matter.  Dexter-Russell, anything on clearance at C&M (with "NSF" on the side) will be really inexpensive, too.

If we want to talk about steps up, Fujiwara FKM, Tojiro, Mac Pro, Yoshihiro (we're moving along a price continuum pretty precipitously at this point).... when you start talking about $200 your options open up tremendously.  Except it doesn't make sense to do that unless you want to spend MORE on sharpening.  Or  have someone really competent to do it for you.

I'm stuck on your "Wal-Mart" baseline.  Even though I don't really know what's available at Wal-Mart.  Before I ever posted here, I browsed through the history of posts a bit, and ran into what is still perhaps my favorite (maybe 2nd favorite -- not sure) quote about cutlery (courtesy BDL): "A knife is just a handle and a sharpening problem".

$75.00 (plus shipping of $7.00) gets you a 210mm Fujiwara FKM gyuto from japanesechefsknife.com.

You still need a sharpening plan -- and to budget some money for it.

The knife part is easy. 

Get an R. H. Forschner Fibrox or Rosewood (same knife, different handle).  They'll not only fit within your budget, they'll leave room to spare.  R. H. Forschners are among the very few, relatively low priced knives which are worth sharpening.  A lot of stores sells them online, but if you want a recommendation I'll happily supply. 

FWIW my last Forschner, a 10" Cimeter which I got about a year ago and reviewed here, came from Mad Cow Cutlery who has their store front on Amazon.  Don't let the moderate number of stars fools you... Forschners may not be the best knives in the world, but they're major value.  You can't do better for the money.

An alternative to a Forschner, and still within your budget, is a Fujiwara FKM.  I think the Fujiwara is a better knife in almost every respect, but it's not as durable and probably would be more difficult to keep sharp (depending on how you decide to sharpen and how much you're willing to spend). 

You're going to have to make some decisions about how you're going to sharpen and maintain you knife; and there's going to be some sticker shock involved as well as accepting a new paradigm about sharpness.  Warm up your credit card and let's talk.

Once you've figured that out and developed some basic knife and sharpening skills, if you want to upgrade to something more agile and with better edge qualities than a Forschner you'll have a good jumping off place to make informed decisions. 

BDL

I think your plan to get your current knives sharpened is good.  Then you decide more slowly if you're happy or if you want to spend on upgrades.  And you can surf around the "usual suspects" - Japanese Knife Imports, Cutlery & More, CKTG, Japanese Chefs Knife... all of which is overwhelming if you're in a hurry.

Edit -- I just saw BDL's post, too, and indeed, the second part of "low prices knives that are worth sharpening" is a real consideration.  One reason, perhaps, to buy now.  Get some sharpening in order on something worth sharpening, then maybe you're happy and maybe you want to consider upgrades.

Note:  If you're going to buy a Fujiwara FKM, I suggest buying from Chef Knives to Go instead of JCK.  JCK is an excellent retailer, but if anything goes wrong you have to send the knife back to Japan via San Diego, and their San Diego office can be pretty tight a$$ed in terms of deciding whether a problem is user error or was caused by the maker or shipper.  CKtG is located in the US and is significantly more consumer oriented when it comes to assigning blame.

BDL

Disclosue:  CKtG and I are discussing a commercial relationship in which I'd be doing some writing for them.

Timing matters too -- i.e., the 8" knife is closest to 210mm if buying Japanese.  CKTG may still not have any in stock if you were to do that soon.  If it's in stock when you're ready to pull the trigger, by all means.  Save on postage, too.

On the other hand, I like the Forschner suggestion more for current purposes -- cheaper, and something "worth sharpening".

What knives do you have currently? If you don't know the make post a picture.

There are some low end steels that are so bad at taking an edge they should be replaced. Others are worth spending $5.00 a piece to have sharpened.

I had a lady bring me a dull, malformed from bad sharpening, and rusty knife that she wanted to know if it was worth doing. It was an old carbon steel 4 star elephant Sabatier which is some top notch but old steel.

$10 later she had a knife that was reconditioned and as good as you could buy without getting into $$$$$$.

You don't want to spend money and downgrade or go sideways in your steel quality.

Jim

The Forschners are a good buy as has been mentioned. Learning with a 10" will be beneficial to your efficiency in the long term. But certainly, an 8" is still a good knife.

If you have an Ikea by you, you can get a good knife steel in an odd visual design that works surprisingly well, their SLITBAR Damascus 8" chef knife is a good blade (mediocre handle, odd looks overall) for $50.00.

The Forschners are a lesser steel in comparison, but also thinner steel stock which can offer its own performance advantages.

With the overall budget you've mentioned, putting half into the Forschner and half into a stone or two and a steel might be the best balance $, value and use.

So check this guys. This have been a wealth of info for beginners. I thought it was a sticky before I clicked on it. Anyway here goes:

 I am an amateur chef that "above average" cooking skills. I am unafraid of any recipe and I know (I think) most basic cooking techniques. My knife skills are sub par and something I need to improve. I know how I should hold my hands when I am cutting vegetables but that's about it. I am finally starting to improve this because now I have a house where my cooking utencils will not be abused! Silverware in my non-stick pans? GET OUT!

 This means I am starting fresh with 0 cookware or knives. I've used some nice quality Henkel knives and Cutco knives as well. The Henkels felt nice in my hands and so did the Cutco. The Cutco, however, just felt clumsy. The way the knife felt on the cutting board was all wrong. I always thought it was just because I didn't have proper technique/practice. The Henkels felt much better though they still had the same type of "I have no clue what I'm doing" feel. 

 I know from above my sharpening skills need to be as good as the knives I'm buying. I need to buy cookware too, so I'm thinking $300 is the budget for the knives. I like the price point on the R. H. Forschner knives and was thinking of getting a set but if I can go with some nicer knives I don't see the problem in investing the extra cash. Does the previous advice in this thread still hold true or would a different brand be good for a set? Is a set even any good for me or should I just start with a Chef/bread/pearing combo that's really nice? 

Here's one of several options, big green: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY6DJ0PQxyA

Basically it's a set of stones and a jig to set the bevel for you.  There's some sticker shock with the Apex kit -- around $300!  But (a) it's dead easy (b) after 5 years or so you'll come out ahead as opposed to paying for each sharpening (c)  it's quick enough, despite the ponderous pace of the video, and the knives never have to leave your kitchen.

Plus as you become geekier you can adjust your bevels, try different levels of polishing, and bore your friends to tears talking about your new hobby.

Forschner Rosewood 8" Chef's Knife

Sale price: $32.95

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/victorinox-knives.html

Victorinox Forschner Rosewood Chef's Knives

8-inch   $35.95

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/forschner_rosewood.htm

OK. I'm going against the general standard tide. I'm recommending an 8" knife. If you're just going to buy one(1) knife, I think you should get a size that you can do more things easier with than not. I know, I'll have the geeks here tell you and me that I'm wrong. OK. I can live with that. But the point is that they're speaking from the geek pov, not as plain old ordinary "home cooks". There is nothing wrong w/ a VF chef's knife. It's a nice piece of equipment for easy money. It will sharpen easy enough and holds it's edge well enough and you can grow very well with it. 

Dude... as a geek, or at least aspiring geek... I will point out that I wholeheartedly recommended the 8" Forschner/Victorinox for for this particular OP.  Fibrox, even, if you want to go cheaper, though I think the Rosewood is probablyl better for a home cook.  As BDL said, same blade, different handle.

I don't think any of the usual suspects pushed towards a longer blade, in fact.

Dude?     LOL.     That's funny. 

I was going on the overwhelming vast majority of recommendations on the infinite myriad of "What Knife Should I Get" threads here on the forum. 10" is almost always the go-to size. I was also concurring with the other recommendations here. 

I'm just not seeing any recommendations different from yours on this thread.  Sorry about "dude".  I NEVER used that term before moving to California.  Now I can't help it.  If I'm busting chops, I mean it good-naturedly.  (I'm not sure I am, but that's a line drawing issue, and with sincere apologies, I'll accept your assessment!)

Sorry, ICEMAN (not "dude," and hopefully never again -- though I can't promise not to be that absent-minded! Hell I address my sister that way sometimes!)

And yes, I affirm your post as truly helpful to the OP, which is what it's all about.

It's AG my friend. 

Now to tell the truth, if I was buying knives tomorrow, as a beginner, I would get these, from Cutlery and More, on clearance, while they still have them. 

LamsonSharp Walnut 1837 Chef's knife @ $19.95

LamsonSharp Walnut 1837 Fillet Knife @ $17.95

LamsonSharp Walnut 1837 Hollow Edge Santoku @ $19.95

I like the look and feel of this style. I think they outclass the Chicago Cutlery of today. They look to me to be real good "beginner knives", and if they're not, they're still not too hard on the pocket. As a non-beginner, I would get a Tojiro Shirogami petty, santoku, nakiri and gyuto from CKtG. I do not however, think that choice fits in this situation. 

(All Good)

A 10" knife is more efficient; stays sharper a little longer, or at least you're usually able to find a few sharp spots here and there; and has less rocker in the belly which makes it better in terms of getting more edge through the food and on the board.  But unless and until you know how to hold a knife it's a lot easier to keep track of the point on a shorter knife -- which not only makes tip work easier but makes the cook feel safer and more comfortable.

You don't have to sell a 10" or 11" knife to someone who already has the skills.  If I'm talking to someone who is talking about making the effort to develop them, or is in a pro situation with an adequate station size, I'll recommend a 10" over an 8" chef's. 

If I'm talking to a woman who says her petite height and hand size are better served by a short knife, I'll talk about how it's grip and not size.  As much because I hope she'll develop good grip and chopping skills as for any other reason.  

Otherwise, I don't say anything.   Sometimes -- well a lot of the time -- I use a 12" slicer as my "everything" prep knife.  It impresses the heck out of me, but it's stupid and shouldn't impress anyone else.  I can tell you that it certainly doesn't impress my wife.  A santoku or an 8" chef's (which are pretty much the same things) may not be my favorite go-to knives, and I particularly don't like 8" German profiles (like the Forschner), but since the prejudices didn't come to me on tablets of stone I figure it's a good idea to let everyone have their own opinion without my interference.  

Cooking should be fun, and knives are just one of the more entertaining guests at the party. 

BDL 

And i claimed ot be an aspiring geek.... (if I had more money, I'd be a true geek).... at least in the sense originally mentioned, because given an opening, I'd push someone toward a 10" knife, too. Or at least something longer than 8".  However, didn't see an opening in the OP.  Someone clearly says they want an 8" knife, I believe them.

I am just curious as to why the recommendations tend to a 10" knife as opposed to 8" knife. I am a working chef (not an office chef). For 20 some years, I used an !! 1/2" Henckels forged full bolster. I used it for at least 97% of my tasks. For the last 10 years or so, I have used an 8" MAC MTH-80. I use it for at least 97% of my tasks.

I loved my 11 1'2" Henckels and still do. We put in lots of 60-70 hour weeks working in sympatico over the years. However when I pick it up today (mostly out of nostalgia) it feels like a chainsaw, albeit a well balanced graceful one; but massive all the same.

I accomplish all the same tasks and in the same amount of time with both knives, so I have seen no reason for me to go back to a longer knife. Hence the curiosity as to the reasons why others prefer a longer knife?