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What would be the Japanese equivalent to a 6" Sabatier slicer (petty)?

post #1 of 14
2/6/12 at 6:32pm
Thread Starter 

Hello all,

 

Awhile ago I bought a Massomoto HC 270mm Gyuto(damn you BDL.)  Now I am in the market for a Japanese petty in the 5" to 6" range.  I really like my 6" Sabatier Nogent.  It is thin, and gets pretty damn sharp.  The only thing is the constant steeling involved and that damn finger gaurd.  I have another petty, a 5" Sabatier-type knife which is a bit thicker and seems to hold an edge better. I did a bit of surfing on the usual sites and I've not  seen anything to pull the trigger on--yet.  Most of my knives are carbon but I may be open to some sort of stainless.  I do sharpen free-hand and have three diferent sets of stones--DMT diamond, Arkansas set and a set of Japanese water stones.  I also have a few Spyderco ceramic stones which I use for tip sharpening.  I'm just a home--cook but dig cool knives.

 

Thank you all,

Mike

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post #2 of 14
2/6/12 at 7:03pm
I don't know that you need anything beyond the Sab 6" slicer. But I have a couple of 6" knives... and given your dislike of the finger guard... and maybe a suggestion for stainless just to be different from you Sab... I would get a Gesshin Ginga petty. I don't have one in that length,but I wish I did. I have the 210mm and it's a marvel.
Caveat - lots of worthy knives I haven't touched. And a supreme love for the Sab Nogent slicer.
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post #3 of 14
2/6/12 at 9:42pm
If you get the angles right and use the right stones, that 6" Nogent will hold an edge much better than it ought to -- considering how soft the alloy is. Straight 15*, Norton India to pull the first burr; soft Arkansas to pull and chase the second; finish with a Hall's Surgical Black Arkansas (ideal), or a good translucent (shinier, but not as durable). I think you'll find the Ark edge not only holds up better than one made with synthetic waters tones, but tolerates steeling better as well.

My other petties are a 150mm Konosuke SS, a 5" Forschner Rosewood and a 4-1/2" T-I prototype from a carbon, German profile line they ultimately decided not to make.

I like the Konosuke and Sab equally -- prefer the Konosuke for anything citrus, and the Sab for boning because it laughs -- laughs do you hear me? -- at bones. Non chipporum everbus.

It's not worth wasting too much anxiety choosing the knife you're going to use for cutting trussing twine, and opening vac packs -- not to mention Amazon Prime boxes (ask your wife). Their lives are coarse and brutal; and often short.

BDL
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
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post #4 of 14
2/7/12 at 4:06pm
Thread Starter 

I love my Nogent.  I'm not looking to replace it.  I'm just looking to collect a few Japanese knives.  I figure other than a chef's knife(my gyuto), I should have a petty and some sort of slicer.  I guess what I'm looking for is a bitchin set of knives.  I had not thought of stainless but may be open to it.  Stainless holds an edge better, right?  Most of my knives are carbon Sabatiers.  It would be nice to have something sharp and hold its edge and not need as much TLC.

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post #5 of 14
2/7/12 at 5:35pm
You can look into 150mm carbons too... Konosuke HD is a perennial recommendation lately. They and the GG knives are pricey and very similar. They're lasers, insofar as as you want to apply that term to petty knives. I love my Gesshin Ginga petty so I'm pushing what I know. If you want stainless. There are those who would recommend less high end petties, depending on how you use them and how likely you are to sharpen them away. But it seems you want a really cool present for yourself... I'd look to those two first. Similar hardness and I'll bet similar edge retention. Call Jon and get that confirmed. As well as a bunch more education - he won't sell you something that will not be what you want.
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post #6 of 14
2/8/12 at 4:08pm
Thread Starter 

Wagstaff, the Gingas look nice but JNI are out of stock on the 150mm lines.  What are the "GG" knives? 

 

BDL, thanks for the advice.  I'll have to dig my old Arkansas stones out of storage.  I have some old Pike and Pike/Norton stones.  I have a few "Queer Creek" stones made by Norton.  Any info on them?  They have the label on the side so I've been reluctant to trying them out.

 

What about a Massomoto HC or VG, or, a Moritaka 130 or 150 mm compared to the Konosuke 150mm?

 

Thanks,

Mike

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post #7 of 14
2/8/12 at 4:17pm
GG = Gesshin Ginga. Phone typing short hand.
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post #8 of 14
2/21/12 at 3:44pm
Thread Starter 

Thanks guys,  I pulled the trigger on a 150mm stainless Konosuke  petty.  Hmm, what about a third knife?.

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post #9 of 14
2/21/12 at 8:18pm

Let us know how you like it...  there's pretty much no way you went wrong with that choice.  And you have a great carbon petty already, so maybe the stainless was just what the doctor ordered.

 

Third knife? As in another style? You need a bread knife? Or a parer? Or another gyuto or petty? 

 

Or are you thiking along different lines altogether?

 

I believe in "cheap" for parers and bread knives, unless you have more use for a bread knife than the average home cook.  If you do tons of roasts or lots of thinly cut fish, you might want a longer slicer.  If you're not into larger things, again your Nogent 6" slicer will serve you really well.

 

Do you need a chef-de-chef?

 

Do you just want another knife to have another knife?  (I relate, if so, and would suggest getting a real "laser" gyuto, just to have it, and contrast with your Masamoto. I don't have one -- but that's a purely budgetary consideration).

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post #10 of 14
2/22/12 at 9:01am
In terms of another smallish blade, an 8" suji/ slicer/ petty would be really nice for trimming meat -- and it's an excellent "utility" shape/length knife as well; good for pies, cheese, cutting sandwiches and their "fixings," prepping salads, and so on.

An 8" suji is the biggest hole in my current core set, and probably my next purchase. As to brands and lines, more depends on why you're buying than on the particular work you're trying to do. For instance, whether you want an "uber" knife to fit with your other great knives, or something which can do it all, hold a good edge, and not cost too much.

BDL
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
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post #11 of 14
2/22/12 at 9:37am

As a third knife consider a honesuki if you break down poultry or ribs, a good bread knife or else a sujihiki, as a long slicer.  

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post #12 of 14
2/22/12 at 4:15pm
Thread Starter 

I have a Forschener rosewood handled bread knife.  I've collected a pretty nice set of western knives and am now looking to move into the Japanese arena.  I have a chef's knife, a 6" petty and now I suppose I need a slicer, paring, and ? 

 

I have a Sabatier 10" slicer that I use for butterflying chicken breasts, pork chops and the like.  I also use it for trimming fat and cutting up raw meat and slicing cooked roasts.  I think that I may prefer a longer blade.  What do you pros think?  What would a Japanese equivalent or better of this knife be?

 

As far as the 8" suji, hmm, that may be interesting.  Right now I have a 6" and 8" Henkels slicer/sandwich knife which I use primarily for melons, pineapples and other fruits.  What do you mean by trimming meat?  Currently I use my Sabatier 10" and 6" for meat trimming. 

 

I think that a  honesuki will be later on my list.

 

Thanks so much.

 

Mike

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post #13 of 14
2/23/12 at 9:30am

8" is a little more agile than 10" for trimming fat, silver skin, etc.  Like you, I have a 10" Sabatier slicer which I love as well as a bunch of knives in the 6" range.  A lot of my interest in the 8" size is probably that I like buying knives but haven't bought one in a long time.  Stupid, but there you go.

 

If you're doing heavy-duty tasks like portioning ribs, or if you do a lot of breaking and steaking you might want something more robust than a 10" slicer.  I mostly use a 10" Forschner Cimeter for "big meat," splitting chickens, and so on.  Before getting that as a review knife, I used to mostly use my carbon Sabatier 12" chef's.  But hold on to your practical perspective.  Using something -- anything -- you keep sharp is far more important than a specific profile.

 

BDL

What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
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post #14 of 14
2/23/12 at 12:31pm

I was going to splurge on a "good" bread/serrated knife when I joined the various food forums' knife sections looking for advice. I wound up getting a $9 KAI Pure Komachi 2 stamped Chinese steel "bread" knife. LOL But investigating led me to the wonderful world of Japanese cutlery, and dare I say it, I'm hooked. I may still get the Tojiro ITK bread knife with which ThEoRy (PCC Kitckens) makes magic, but honestly this little orange Komachi is wicked sharp and perfect for cutting my home-baked crusty loaves. OTOH, the blade could be longer, and I'm pretty sure I could sharpen the ITK using Dave Martell's guide.

 

I like the idea of an 8" sujihiki, which could easily take the place of my Henckels 8" "chef's" knife, with more versatility.

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ChefTalk.com › ChefTalk Cooking Forums › Food & Equipment Reviews › Cooking Knife Reviews › What would be the Japanese equivalent to a 6" Sabatier slicer (petty)?