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Formula's for 50 servings or more

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

Does anyone have a source or a book to buy, that has formula's for 50 or more servings, I have some baking experience, I do a lot of catering and quality frozen product for desserts is limited, I also do a lot of custom menus with requests for theme desserts, I would also like a formula for pizza dough and a dough I could make french bread hoagies with.

post #2 of 17

Use the Amazon link, then search for "Food for Fifty".

 

On the other hand, get MasterCook 11 from Valuesoft, about $20, and it includes a PDF version AND a Mastercook cook book that you can scale as necessary: http://www.valusoft.com/store?Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&SiteID=valusoft&Locale=en_US&Env=BASE&productID=183067000

 

Also there is the British MAC manual as well as the US Military Catering manual

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
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Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
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post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks Pete, looks like great resourses, not really what I am looking for, Looking for something used by professional bakers, like maybe college textbook, pastry school textbook, I understand maybe a professional baker or pastry chef may not want to give up his formulas to a chef, they may think I need to earn it, and I understand that, years ago at culinary school I got to spend 6 weeks with the commercial baking dept., did a wedding cake and learned how to make some fancy deserts, enjoyed it. Had a notebook with a few good formulas and somehow, it was stolen, got lost or left behind at one of the places I worked, I have Lenotre's Desserts and Pastries and Death by Chocolate books, and have had some success working from them, but they are writen for the home cook and converting baking formulas does'nt always work. Thought maybe there is something out there you all may know about.

post #4 of 17
Actually, "Food For Fifty" was a text book for the banquets and catering class when I was in school. There is also"Professional Baking" by Wayne Gielsen. This was the text used for baking class at my school. It is ( or was) the official textbook for the Cordon Bleu schools. I have seen these books at a major bookstore, Boarders maybe? I forget which one, it was a long time ago. I'm sure they can be found on Amazon along with any other text book your heart desires. Can't tell you what books the other major culinary schools use.

Pizza Dough

15.5 # Hi-Gluten Flour
10 oz. Salt
4 oz. Olive Oil
1.5 # Crisco
3 # Poolish
1 Gal. Water 100 deg F
2.5 oz. Yeast

To make the poolish, combine 2# water with 2# flour and a tsp yeast. Let this ferment for two days. It'll be pourable when its ready. After I've made a batch of dough, I add 1.5# each, flour and water back into the poolish for the next batch.

Mix using straight dough method. I usually put the flour in the pot, turn the mixer on and add the rest of the ingredients in the order listed. The yeast is put in the water to bloom. Knead the dough for 8-10 minutes. After kneading, portion the dough. I've found that the bulk fermentation and punching make this dough too tough and hard to stretch, so go straight from the pot to portioning. I recommend 1 oz per inch of circumference. E.G. a 16 inch pizza will use 16oz (1#) of dough. However you portion, roll each portion into balls and place on a greased sheets pans, allowing room to rise, cover with plastic and put in the cooler. These need to rest for at least 12 hours so make a day before they'll be used.

Yield is about 30#.

This dough is pretty loose and is great for a hand tossed New York style pizza. I also use it for foccacia. Portion to 3.5# for a full sized sheet pan.
A person who never made a mistake, never tried anything new.  - Al E
Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days.  - Ben Franklin
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A person who never made a mistake, never tried anything new.  - Al E
Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days.  - Ben Franklin
Reply
post #5 of 17

My apologies, I missed the "baking" part and read "catering".

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
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post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 

Pete, no need to apologize, food for fifty sounds like a book I'd like own, I am a used book guy and will be keeping my eyes open for it. Thanks Sparkie, I have group I make pizza for on a regular basis, 35 14in pizza's, your formula should work just about right, what kind of yeast, wet or dry

post #7 of 17

FWIW, "Food for Fifty" has 129 dessert recipes and 46 bread recipes out of the 607 recipes in the Mastercook cookbook, many of the recipes include variations so the total actual dishes covered is probably something on the order of 1,200-1,800 or more.

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post #8 of 17
No problem, I hope your group enjoys it. I use dry yeast. Red Star Active Dry Yeast in case the brand is important. I also have a pretty decent recipe for ciabatta. You could make loaves similar in shape and size to the hoagies. I haven't made French bread since school and never in large quantity so I can't help you to much there. Just about any decent baking text should have a good formula for French style loaves though. I could pm one from my baking book if you need it. I'm not sure if it would be proper to post that in a public forum.
A person who never made a mistake, never tried anything new.  - Al E
Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days.  - Ben Franklin
Reply
A person who never made a mistake, never tried anything new.  - Al E
Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days.  - Ben Franklin
Reply
post #9 of 17

     Hey there, do you know bakers percentages? If not, you should learn them. They are quite easy to use and can be very helpful in menu/recipe/catering planning. A great resource for everything dough related is "Bread" by Jeffrey Hammelman. If yes, I can give you a formula that works great for both pizza dough and french sandwich rolls.

- Hi-Gluten flour or a high protein A.P, like King Arthur. - 100 % (flour will always equal 100% in formulas)

- Water - 68% (around 65 degrees if using a mixer)

- Salt - 2.1% (Kosher or sea salt are best)

- Yeast - 0.5% (I use SAF instant yeast. It comes in 1 # packages and is the best easy to find yeast available. No need to proof this yeast in warm water.

- Olive Oil (Optional) 5% (not necessary but can add a nice flavor to dough.

You can mix this as a straight dough and slow ferment overinght in a walk-in or refrigerator for best flavor.

If you need an explanation on how to use bakers percentages feel free to ask.

post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks PDX

No I am not sure how to use bakers percentages, but understand percentages in general, use them all the time when costing menu's, Can I guess that the waters wieght is 68% of the flour, so if you were using 15 lbs of flour you would use 10.2lbs of water?

post #11 of 17
Yup, that's how it works. The flour will always be 100%. In formulas with more than one type, then the greater amount of flour is set at 100%. There may be an exception to this rule, but I'm not sure. It's been a long time since my school days and I haven't had a job where the percentages are used.
A person who never made a mistake, never tried anything new.  - Al E
Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days.  - Ben Franklin
Reply
A person who never made a mistake, never tried anything new.  - Al E
Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days.  - Ben Franklin
Reply
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 

Have been very busy, and finally got a slow week and tried out both of these formulas with success, the french bread hoagies we used for grinders, for a lunch special, and the pizza dough for a group with 35 pizza's, my boss commented that the french bread was the kind of bread that makes some restaurant's famous, and he is hard to please, the pizza's turned out very good, but a totally different animal than what I have been using, I use a 14 in presheeted pizza dough, and each dough weighs 28 oz, like eating a half a  loaf of bread with each slice, it also turns out more like a 16 in pizza when its done, had to also bump the baking temp to get the pizza done on the bottom, 425 in a convection oven, vs. 350 with the ones I was using, the other thing was time, mixing the dough didn't take to long but getting the dough on the pans took me an extra hour, maybe I need a sheeter or a press, never used a press before do they work, without compromising the quality of dough? A question about the poolish, how long can you keep it in between batches of dough? 

and a question about using a proof box with humidity on the french bread, how does this affect the end product, I recently inherited a proof box and not completely sure how to use it yet?

Thanks to both of you for the formula's 

post #13 of 17

Its been awhile since I've checked in here, so sorry about the delay in responding. You know how it is in this life. I am glad to hear that the pizza was good. I developed this formula through a lot of trial and error and some internet research. I've haven't had an authority in this arena to discuss my method with, so some of the conclusions I've drawn may be in error. Either way, the results are good and I think I've figured it out so I will continue to speak like I know what I'm talking about.

 

When I was taught how to make pizza dough, I was told that the dough needs to be fermented in the cooler overnight before using. This has a couple of functions: It slows down the yeast activity so that gas is created more slowly, resulting in smaller air bubbles and a denser crumb. Also the extended fermentation period adds flavor to the dough(think sourdough starter). The function of the poolish is to pre-ferment a portion of the dough to get more of this flavor. The life of your poolish is connected to the yeast activity, so hotter temps =  more active and shorter lifespan. I have a prep room separate from the kitchen where I make bread and pasta. It is usually about 70-80 degrees in there. I've had the best results with a poolish that is between 1.5 and 2.5 days old. It should still be frothy and fairly viscous, and will pour out of the container but is still thick enough that I cut it off with a rubber spatula. After about three days it becomes very runny and begins to separate.  Think stinky crepe batter. The resulting dough (with the old poolish) has a "useful" shelf life of about three days. It does not rise as much in the oven, browns unevenly, and it is difficult to get the bottom crust to crisp up. Your lifespan may be different than mine, but I have read that 1-2 days is typical. I have also read that some people keep their poolish in the cooler to extend the lifespan. Haven't tested this one because I don't like the idea of adding cold ingredients to the dough when I am mixing it.  I usually make two batches per week and have devised a plan to keep the poolish alive rather than start a new one every time. Think of it like a pet that needs to be fed. I start with 4# of poolish, use 3 to make the dough. Every other day I add 1.5# (equal parts water and flour) to the poolish. Occasionally when I see the activity tapering off, throw a pinch of yeast in there also. This keeps it going all the time and its always ready when I need it. That last part is where I really have no idea if it is "proper" or not. I only know that it works, perhaps someone can shed some more light on the topic...

 

Hand tossing can be pretty time consuming at first. With some practice, you will get fast at it though. I can open them at a rate of about one per minute(a touch slower actually). A sheeter would be a bit faster for me (plus you don't have to worry about thin spots) but I have known a couple of guys who could do it by hand faster than using a machine.  That's up to you if you don't think it is worth it to deal with the learning curve. If I had a roller, I would definitely use anytime I had to open say ten or more at a time.  I've never seen a press though, so you are on your own there. Are you cooking these in pans or on screens? If you are using pans grease it with Crisco. The Crisco will hold the dough in place so that it doesn't shrink back away from the edges. You can open the pizza to about half of the desired size, put it in the pan and just press it out to the edges.  Try this with oil and you could be there for days trying to get the dough to stay open. Don't try pushing it into a screen though, that's just asking for problems! The only issue I've had with the machines (this is a pretty minor one) is that they make a perfectly even sheet of dough. When you hand toss, the edge of the dough is naturally thicker than the rest. This rises up more and gives you the crust. If you uses a sheeter, just make sure to roll it out about a half inch larger than the diameter of your screen and roll the edge under itself if you want the outer crust to have a bigger puffy appearance.

 

The proof box will give you a much more consistent product. My knowledge here is somewhat limited, but I do have one at work and this is how I look at it. I know that when I take the dough out of the proofer and put it in the oven, I know that every time I am putting a 95 degree exactly piece of dough into the oven. Many of the reactions happening while cooking the bread happens at different temps. If the dough is 75 degrees when I put it in the oven, it changes the timing of all the reactions. Sometimes the difference may be barely noticeable, other times... who knows, making bread is a fickle process, any environment that you can control, is preferable to one that you can't. 


Edited by Sparkie - 6/23/12 at 11:57pm
A person who never made a mistake, never tried anything new.  - Al E
Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days.  - Ben Franklin
Reply
A person who never made a mistake, never tried anything new.  - Al E
Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days.  - Ben Franklin
Reply
post #14 of 17

Check out see if you can find Baking by Joseph Amendola (culinary institute) Or baking by William Sultan(chairman baking Dept voc.hs NYC. both books are old but not only tell you quantities, but also WHY you are doing or adding what you are.

 

Sultan was probably one of the best baking tech writers in the business,he would visit manufacturers plants to see how products wer made

 I worked for him in NY in adult ed setups. He was a no nonsense type guy

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 

Sparkie

Crazy busy the past several months, and now almost nothing, time to rest and get back to pizza dough, I did a little research online and after reading about sheeting,  cold pressing, hot pressing and tossing, tossing turns out the most tender and unique crusts, also checked out several videos on tossing pizza, and am excited to learn skills to become a expert tosser some day, going to have to teach a couple of other cooks too, looking forward to dumping the frozen presheeted pizza crust forever. Thanks again for sharing your pizza dough wisdom.

 

Also going to do some book shopping, I had found a few at the used book store, but was low on funds at the time, I am heading back there soon.

post #16 of 17

There is also another book called food for 50 by Sidney Aptikar  aka Thomas Mario (former Playboy magazine food editor) Was written in the 60s.

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post #17 of 17

FWIW, "Food for Fifty" is available in PDF format along with a cookbook of recipes on MasterCook v11, http://www.mastercook.com/ as is "On Baking".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ED BUCHANAN View Post

There is also another book called food for 50 by Sidney Aptikar  aka Thomas Mario (former Playboy magazine food editor) Was written in the 60s.

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
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