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need suggestions to replace my globals

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

When I was fresh out of school, the first knives I encontered were Globals - so I got a set I loved them for awhile. Now I've been cooking for another two years and want to upgrade. Ive been doing some competitions and real fine work.
 

I want to stay japanese, preferably something 8 inch (not a fan of long chefs knives) I really like light, thin knives. Don't want to spend more than 300-400 for this knife.

Any opinion is appreciated.

 

Thanks ladies and gents

post #2 of 22

With that budget you have a lot of different (And great) options. Actually you can even add some "bling factor" to your choice.

Now some questions that I'm sure that somebody else is going to ask:

 

-Do you already have good sharpening stuff...And skills?

-You want to keep your blade Japanese... But what about the handle? Yo handle or wa handle?

-Carbon steel or inox ?

-Do you want pure performance or you care a lot on the looks?

 

I own some Globals and I was happy with them... But once I got a Mac (Professional series) I just forgot about the globals, the mac is much better. But just like I'm telling you... With your budget you have a ton of possibilities that people with more experience than me can recomend you.

 

Best regards!

post #3 of 22

Can highly recommend the Masamoto KS.

 

Available on japanesechefknives.com

 

Carbon steel, wa handle, beautiful steel, fantastic fit & finish. My favourite knife.

 

Also consider:

  • Konosuke HD
  • Suisin Inox Honyaki
  • Sakai Takayuki Grand Cheff

 

(The above are all ultra light, ultra sharp lasers, in stainless steel).

 

For something a bit different, check out Takeda. Ultra light as well, but Aogami super steel (carbon). Rustic kurouchi clad finish. Quite a deep belly, but really sensational knife.

 

The above are all available on chefknivestogo.com

 

All great options, but IMHO you can't beat the Masamoto.

post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 

luis j - i'd even like to spend less but theres this great retailer in Montreal on Laurier and i was told to look around that number. I have a 1000 grit stone right now - Im going to get a 3k as well. Skills are okay - getting better.(still new). I dont really know the difference between the steels. Pure proformance is foremost but if i can get a good looking knife, its a plus.

duckfat33 - I considered konosuke but still trying to get some information. I'll look into those as well.
 

thanks alot guys!

post #5 of 22

What would you like to know about Konosuke?

 

Generally, Konosukes are lasers and a lot like other high quality lasers -- but they make a line in a particular, semi-stainless alloy called HD which confers a lot of advantages.  Even so, they're hardly unique.  Gesshin Ginga, Tadatsuna Inox and Suisun Inox Honyaki all make excellent stainless lasers.  If you're willing to venture into "carbon" steel, the prices and competiton change again but the major competitors are Konosuke and Sakai Yusuke.

 

Bothy Konosuke and Sakai Yusuke make stainless lasers which are a little "softer" than the other knives and as a result have lesser edge taking and holding properties than the other knives.  That's not to say they're not good -- they're just not quite as good.

 

As a sort of generic piece of advice, I wouldn't take a laser on the line until and unless you were very confident of your skills.  We can talk about why, if you're seriously thinking of going the laser route -- otherwise take it on faith.  On the other hand, if you're thinking of a laser for home use the caveat melts away. 

 

The Masamoto KS is a really wonderful chef's knife.  If you're looking for impeccable workmanship and performance, and a very plain, Zen aesthetic -- the KS is as good as it gets.  It's also very expensive.  And also carbon.

 

More generally, it would be nice if you could talk about what you want from this knife.  If all you want is "good," or even, "substantially better than Global," you can do it and still keep the purchase price far more reasonable than the top of your range indicates you're willing to spend. 

 

It would also be very helpful to know if you want stainless or carbon, wa handles or yo, etc.

 

After a certain point you're not buying performance so much as exclusivity, aesthetics, collectibility (not that used kitchen knives are really collectible) and other intangibles.  The upper part of your price range reflects those qualities.

 

If you want to get the most ouf of high end knives, you're going to have to learn to sharpen at a much higher level than you do now.  That's not a criticism or a warning, it's a "just is."  The alternative is to stick with less expensive knives and simple, inexpensive sharpening kit.  You can get much better performance than Global for the same money.

 

Looking forward to continuing the discussion,

BDL

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post #6 of 22

I was gonna suggest something more reasonable in price but with your budget I guess that would be pointless.  CHICAGO CUTLERY!  THERE I DID IT! 

post #7 of 22

The Masamoto KS series is an excellent choice. They are great knives at that price point if you want a traditional J-knife.  The Suisin Inox Honyaki is exceptional as well and comes with a price tag to match. For about 1/4 the price I'd suggest looking closely at the JCK (Kagayaki) Original series. Aside from the handle and mirror finish the JCK nearly matches the performance of the Suisin.

Another great choice is Ikkanshi if you can find one as they are now closed.

 

Dave

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post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 

Thanks bdl reading your threads is the reason I posted a thread. To be entirely honest I'm very new to knives- thought I new a bit but there's a lot I don't know. 

 

Whay I really need this knife for is quality beautiful fine cuts aand to be able to do just about everything in the kitchen - I want to have a real all around knife and best bang for my buck. Fashion of the knife is not important I just want a high preformance knife . Carbo n would be best. I'd like to try a wa handle also.

 

just like to know what sort of knives I'm looking at! I like some of your suggestions already. I'm going to keep looking at them. 

post #9 of 22
Carbon Wa handle available locally? Check out Paul's Finest. I got a Moritaka Deluxe 270mm gyuto from him (~$200 shipped to Vancouver) and it's all you describe that you want. Plus, it looks cool...but that's secondary. It comes sharp and apparently gets crazy sharp.

Talk to Paul, though. He's super nice, approachable, and local to you. Worth a look o see if supporting your local economy can be incorporated into your purchase. That, and he gives super practical and realistic knife advice.
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 

thanks deputy, is he online only? I thought by locally you meant he had a shop in MTL. There's a small but supposed to be a great shop where the citys chef's go to get knives called L'emoulier I believe. Ill be dropping by today to see the selection. Ill ask him about all these suggestions and see what he thinks as well. I appreciate all this help!

post #11 of 22

He's online but I bet he'd be pretty accommodating and very helpful to someone in Montreal. Plus, you could probably avoid shipping, too. Shoot him an email or call him. I found his prices better or equivalent to the American guys on most of the stuff he carried. He also talked me through many things (and more impressively OUT of many things I didn't need), which I found to be a tremendous service. 

post #12 of 22

Paul doesn't have the world's greatest selection.  It's a good idea to talk to him, but you should also talk to Mark at Chef Knives to Go, Jon at Japanese Knife Imports, and... well... me. 

 

There are some very interesting new-ish choices in carbon wa-gyutos, and I don't think Paul carries any of them. 

 

I think you could do worse than investigate the Konosuke Shirogami (based on experience) and the new Moritaka AS (based on what I've heard) as first choices, since the Masamoto KS is beyond your budget.   Richmond (Mark Richmond owns Chef Knives to Go) has just come out with a knife patterned on the Sabatier/Masamoto profile (so is the Moritaka), available both in 19C27 stainless and 52100 carbon.  I'm supposed to demo and review the carbon, but it hasn't come my way yet  -- and as far as I know there's nothing published on them.  Knowing what I know about the makers, alloys, etc., I wouldn't hesitate to get any of those three. 

 

It would go to your ultimate benefit to focus on sharpening skills and equipment and knife technique as much as knife shopping.  The obvious kit is Beston 500; Bester 1200; and either Suehiro Rika (5000) or Takenoko (6000).  The knives we're talking about here aren't really amenable to steeling, but you'll probably need a rod for the rest of your kit.  I like the Idahone fine ceramic quite a bit.  Unless you're planning on schlepping it around in a knife bag (too fragile), you can't beat it for anywhere near the price.

 

When Sartre said, "Hell is other people," he was probably thinking about what happens to high-end knives brought into a restaurant kitchen for line use.  Sure he was a jerk and not even half as smart as Simone de Beauvoir, still you might want to think about it.  

 

BDL

 

 

 

 

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post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post

Paul doesn't have the world's greatest selection.  It's a good idea to talk to him, but you should also talk to Mark at Chef Knives to Go, Jon at Japanese Knife Imports, and... well... me. 

 

There are some very interesting new-ish choices in carbon wa-gyutos, and I don't think Paul carries any of them. 

 

I think you could do worse than investigate the Konosuke Shirogami (based on experience) and the new Moritaka AS (based on what I've heard) as first choices, since the Masamoto KS is beyond your budget.   Richmond (Mark Richmond owns Chef Knives to Go) has just come out with a knife patterned on the Sabatier/Masamoto profile (so is the Moritaka), available both in 19C27 stainless and 52100 carbon.  I'm supposed to demo and review the carbon, but it hasn't come my way yet  -- and as far as I know there's nothing published on them.  Knowing what I know about the makers, alloys, etc., I wouldn't hesitate to get any of those three. 

 

It would go to your ultimate benefit to focus on sharpening skills and equipment and knife technique as much as knife shopping.  The obvious kit is Beston 500; Bester 1200; and either Suehiro Rika (5000) or Takenoko (6000).  The knives we're talking about here aren't really amenable to steeling, but you'll probably need a rod for the rest of your kit.  I like the Idahone fine ceramic quite a bit.  Unless you're planning on schlepping it around in a knife bag (too fragile), you can't beat it for anywhere near the price.

 

When Sartre said, "Hell is other people," he was probably thinking about what happens to high-end knives brought into a restaurant kitchen for line use.  Sure he was a jerk and not even half as smart as Simone de Beauvoir, still you might want to think about it.  

 

BDL

 

 

 

 


Agreed on Paul's selection - not the hugest, but if he has what you want, it's great. If not, or if the cost is too high, look elsewhere.

 

For reference, he does carry the Moritaka AS (the "Supreme")...not sure if it's the "new" one or if it's different somehow, but he has A Moritaka AS, whether it's THE...it's that brand and that steel. When I talked Mori's with Paul, we came to the conclusion that there wasn't a significant difference for most people between the Supreme and the Deluxe (Blue #2), so I got the Deluxe and am quite happy with it...love the profile and the 270mm blade. No issues with reactivity that have caused me complaint yet. Haven't had to sharpen it yet but may give it a go soon, just to see how it does...

 

Now those Richmond Ultimatums...that's a pretty gorgeous looking knife. Wow. I like it. Then again, I also like the Mori Deluxe because it looks "gritty." It's stupid to care about how they look and I'm kind of at the point where I don't really anymore ("care" per se...) but if it looks nice, it's a nice touch.

 

 

 

post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 

I got in touch with the owner of the knife shop in Montreal I mentioned- he doesnt carry any of the larger makers. He imports from small makers directly in Japan -  not sure what that entails. I didnt get a chance to go this week. I told him the names of the knives you guys suggested and hes going to come up with a few knives for me to look at based on those knife profiles.

 

Knife bag wont happen with these babies thats for sure haha. I usually use a pretty sturdy tool box and even then everything is well wrapped in towels.

 

So far I'm leaning most at the Moritaka Damascus Gyuto 210mm and the takeneko 6000, also the ceramic BDL suggested.

post #15 of 22

My recommendation was for the Moritaka KS, not the Damascus.  The recommendation was as much for the Sabatier/Masamoto profile as for the high quality of the knife and edge properties of the Hitachi AS (aogami super) alloy Moritaka uses.  In addition to their too flat profiles, Moritaka Damascus are overpriced.  But because I'm neither a fan of san-mai construction nor the "damascus" aesthetic in general, my perspective begins with a strongly negative bias.  

 

Unless you're going to use the knife on the line and under a lot of pressure, my bang for the buck recommendation is the Konosuke White #2.  If it is going to be a line knife and you're not confident that you have the skills to keep the knife square to the cut at line and prep production speeds -- you might be happier with something with a little less flex.

 

I don't recommend an 8" chef's for any pro; especially not for a wa handled knife.  Their blade lengths are actually shorter than "equivalent" yo-handled knives, and because of their weight and how far up the blade your pinch ends up, they handle much shorter than you'd expect.  Don't cheat yourself out of the extra 2" of production and edge retention.  Everything else being equal, almost everyone can become as comfortable handling a 10" knife as with an 8".  It's simply a matter of learning to use a softer grip with a straighter wrist.  

 

Let us know how your visit to the knife store goes, please.

 

BDL

 

 


Edited by boar_d_laze - 3/12/12 at 11:36am
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post #16 of 22
BDL,

How would the new Richmond Ultimatum compare to the Masamoto VG and Mac Pro?

Thanks,

James
post #17 of 22
I like the Sabatier and heavily Sabatier influenced Masamoto KS chef's profile above all others except for the Konosuke profile, which is only very slightly different. I'm not sure whether I'd take a KS over a Konosuke HD or not, as I haven't had the opportunity to try both of them in the same time frame.

In terms of profile, the Masamoto VG is very, very close to the KS. I like it a great deal. Because of the superior edge properties I like the HC even more. I'd rate the HC as a better knife than a Sabatier carbon, but the Masamoto CT as similar. Again, the major distinctions are edge taking and holding properties; but I'd also give the Sabatier a slight bump for the excellence of its handle.

I haven't tried the Ultimatum yet. From what Mark tells me it's a Masamoto KS clone and I expect to like the 52100 (carbon) version a great deal. I'm less sanguine about the 19C27 (stainless), but hopeful. Some 19C27 is great (Tadatsuna Inox), but some 19C27 have reputations for being difficult to sharpen (Misono UX10). I expect the difference is a combination of hardening and geometry (specifically thinness).

I expect Mark to send me a demo Ultimatum pretty soon. I'm trying to figure out whether I want to try the stainless or the carbon more. While I'm curious about both, I'll probably buy it if I like it; and I'll probably like it a great deal, so the choice matters more than it would if I were merely reviewing with the idea of passing it on.

To some extent this is about me and my particular likes and dislikes and not necessarily a recommendation for anyone else; and those are things I try to keep separate when I write. The Sabatier/KS profile suits my particular action in a way few others do; but a lot of people with different actions share the prejudices.

BDL
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post #18 of 22

i'm pretty sure the ux10 is not 19c27

post #19 of 22

I've thought the UX10s were 19C27 for a long time, and I'm willing to bet a beer that it's either 19C27 or that you can't come up with the right alternative.  However, I don't remember for sure where I got the information -- and if it was Korin, I'm a lot less sure than that beer sounds.  It's also possible I incorrectly deduced it or had a good source but garbled the information or forgot it.   Besides I'd just as soon buy you a beer as have you buy one for me.

So?  Which "Swedish" steel do you think it is? 

 

Bottom line though, right or wrong about UX10s, we're talking about the stainless Ultimatum, which is 19C27 for sure.

 

BDL

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post #20 of 22

could easily be n690... which would make a lot more sense to me

post #21 of 22
Thanks, BDL. That's helpful. What do you know about the M390 steel on the more expensive Ultimatum?
post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post
 Some 19C27 is great (Tadatsuna Inox), but some 19C27 have reputations for being difficult to sharpen (Misono UX10). I expect the difference is a combination of hardening and geometry (specifically thinness).
BDL


I would add the Suisin Inox to the list of great 19C27.  Saw the video for the Ultimatum on CKTG and all I can say is who ever cut that Orange may want to polish up the knife skillz.

1k and 5k stones should take any one a very long ways. 500 is a bit course to be working with for a noob and as long as good maintenace is the order of the day then a 5k stone alone should suffice until the kit could be expanded.

 

Dave

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