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Richmond Ultimatum

post #1 of 79
Thread Starter 

Looks pretty dern sweet. Your thoughts?

 

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riulst25gy.html

post #2 of 79

Looks kinda like advertising...

 

I'm sure the knife is nice, but that being said, the things I enjoy most about this forum are the experienced reviews by real users...pluses and minuses laid out with practical reasoning.  I do look forward to hearing all about these (American made) knives once people have a chance to put them to the test...

 

...off my rant...

 

Peace,

Chinacats

post #3 of 79

OK. Now I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin ...

 

Mark Richmond knives of CKTG are high quality, really good bang for the buck knives. All videos are some sort of advertising. I don't think this knife needs anything to help it. I just want to watch videos for their coolness. 


Edited by IceMan - 3/17/12 at 9:45pm

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply
post #4 of 79

I plan to wait for the batch in M390!  Right now the Ultimatum is at the top of my list.  My only reason for pause is that he offers essentially the same knife made by Moritaka in Aogami for $70 less.  I'm sure it's worth the $250 to get that "Uber Steel" but saving money and getting it sooner...

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #5 of 79
Thread Starter 
Not sure why he thought it was advertising... I just wanted to know people's opinions on this steel. The profile is pretty highly touted on these forums, so I was interested to see the reactions. I'm seriously considering one of these, however, I stumbled upon a page from their site through Google listing this same knife in Damascus Steel. It's going to be $400 though :-(
post #6 of 79

This knife appears to have more belly and is not as thin as the Masamoto, especially at the tip. I have to wonder what they were thinking when they were making those clips. They should title that video how NOT to cut an onion and that poor Orange...LOL. I'm sure they were just trying to show the knife is sharp but it falls a bit flat when you could get the same result with a cleaver.

In either event the real test for this knife will be when we see hands on feedback. A knife is far more than just the grade of steel.

If these are indeed made in the USA with US steel then I will also be watching closely.

FWIW I nearly responded to this thread yesterday but stopped short because I thought it was just advertising as well.  There is a lot of shilling going on with knives today. Free knives for reviews etc.

Just sayin.

 

Dave

I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
post #7 of 79

You surprise me, talking about shilling and Mark Richmond in the same post. You don't know the products you speak of. The onion video was just fine. I'll be willing to guess that the onion was cut cleaner and faster in the video than could be done by >98.6% of the posters here. Maybe you could post up some videos of your skills and abilities, along with the reviews of knives you've made. 

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply
post #8 of 79

I'm not sure that many knives are given away in exchange for reviews.  To clarify a statement I made that could be construed that way:  Mark did give me a prototype in exchange for my feedback as a culinary pro on what, if anything, needed to be changed.  This was in no small part to the fact that I'd already bought perhaps a dozen knives from him as well as sharpened a number of blades for him before sale.  I was never required nor instructed to publish a review in exchange for free products.

 

I'm sure Mark has no need to "buy" reviews in this manner anyway, nor would it be the most cost effective way to advertise!  He has legions of customers as it is, and no need to pay them for reviews.  His service is so superb that he was many happy customers that love the chance to offer their feedback.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #9 of 79

Dave,

 

How about some specifics regarding the who and what of those reviews you purport to be bought? 

 

BDL

What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
Reply
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
Reply
post #10 of 79

duckfat, i am sure you are one of those guys that see's a nice knife in action and says to your self, "i can do that with a 10 dollar kiwi or some other piece of junk,mark is making some great knives and i have bought a few of his plus many others,so just let it go,   

post #11 of 79

I've watched a lot of knife videos. I've never bought any anything because of a video. I like watching the videos because of the action. In one particular video I even don't agree with how the guy is cutting, but still his action is beautiful. Also, before I forget, I like some videos because of the music. Among other things, I'm a professional chef. One of the best jobs I've worked was in a butcher shoppe that had a deal with a commercial knife service. We always had very sharp knives. Nobody could care or even knew what the brands were, but they were always sharp. My own personal knives are either Chicago Cutlery or Victorinox Forschner. Any could be replaced for <$20. My dishes don't get sent back. Nobody has ever told me that anything I've ever served would taste or look better if I was using a $600 knife. Sharp is sharp; quality is quality; skills are skills. One of the most valuable knives I've ever bought was a $10 Ginsu (I actually got 2/$10) one(1) is in my auto tool box. It's the best thing going for exhaust parts, hoses and pain-in-the-butt belts. The other is in my tackle box. You can buy a quality knife, you can buy (or do) quality sharpening. You just aint'e gonna buy no skills, you gotta learn them. 

 

Nice knife, beautiful skills/action, fantastic music:

Tojiro White #2 Nakiri

 

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply
post #12 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post

  Mark did give me a prototype in exchange for my feedback

 

 

 I had no idea you were working for Mark but I was surprised to see your comment in an earlier thread where you said you wanted to come off as a "shill".  Facetious or not you were obviously paid by CKTG for a review. Having said that what I posted upthread was in no way directed at you, or about you.

In either event one give away, or several give aways in exchange for a review really amounts to the same thing in the end. The person Mark has posting uTube videos that never discloses his relationship with CKTG is a prime example.

 Mark has offered give aways in the past to any one posting feedback for items he sells on his site. That is certainly "buying" feedback and reviews. There's just no way around it. While no positive reviews were "required" I'm certain no one expected to win or receive any thing for posting a negative review.

CKTG has gone down this path on other forums so there's little reason not to suspect it here. That's probably why the majority of sites have banned threads that start like this or have taken even more stringent measures. Then there was the deal where Mark offered discounts/drawings etc to any one including a link to his web site in their post or on their profile. Loaners for review can fall in the same category. The reviews are being solicited from people that wouldn't ordinarily review the product and advertising in the form of "reviews" on various sites is expected in return. I'm sure most of us would have a very different view of any thing we get for free. There are those who are open and offer unbiased reviews with the good and the bad but there are others who are simply biased  and try to sell product.

I've bought from Mark in the past and that's something that I've mentioned here many times. I have suggested him as a vendor myself but that really doesn't change the nature of the advertising tactics they have employed.

I'll remain interested in seeing unbiased and unsolicited reviews of this knife in the future from those who purchase it.

 

Dave

 

I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
post #13 of 79

no doubt mark and Phaedrus are very close, but mark is a stand up guy and stands behind all his products, i bet if you asked him to borrow a Ultimatum for a review he would have no problem with it for a small deposit maybe

post #14 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post

Dave,

 

How about some specifics regarding the who and what of those reviews you purport to be bought? 

 

BDL

BDL,

 

I surely have ultimate respect for what you have to say regarding knives and interestingly many other subjects as well.  As to this subject,  I have seen you look to others on these forums for professional advice when purchasing new knives so you understand the consumer end of things.  That being said, I have seen on multiple occasions recently where you said as a disclaimer that you were doing some paid writing for Mark...I feel that this does qualify for the discussion at hand, do you disagree?  I still have respect for what you say and wouldn't question the integrity of your reviews, but let's at least call a spade a spade--or advertising advertising. 

 

Peace,

Chinacats
 

 


Edited by chinacats - 3/19/12 at 9:04pm
post #15 of 79


Since I obviously have ruffled some feathers here, let me at least restate my viewpoint which is just that...a viewpoint.

Let me begin by saying that I like to view myself as a fairly well informed consumer, sorting through the BS is what most often gets you to the point of knowledgeable decision making.

1)  I have bought multiple Japanese knives from Mark and have spoken to him on the phone quite a few times--in my opinion he has been very helpful and honest.
2)  His service is exceptional as are Koki and Jon's by way of reputation.
3)  If I hadn't read multiple message boards I would not have bought from CKTG--meaning that when first visiting his site there are so many blow sunshine up your a#% reviews that I automatically call BS...as I do on any other site with almost perfect reviews where everyone names the owner by name.  Again, this is not directed at Mark though I would feel more comfortable if his reviews weren't blaring out on every page...again almost all are positive (with only few random exceptions).  Why not eliminate them completely...most are nothing but fairly honest attempts by folks to make themselves feel good about their last $200 knife purchase...almost none have any useful product descriptions unless you count people talking about oob sharpness which is a freaking joke--as at least most everyone here is aware.  Again, this is Mark's business and he can and should run it as he sees best fit, I just feel as if most of this type information is insulting to the average consumer.  Soliciting positive reviews on forums is sketchy business and the reputation that could follow is something that would likely tarnish (not patina) your business for some time to come--again not accusing, just stating appearance/perception.
4)  I am not a professional cook though I have spent considerable time in professional kitchens--I understand a chef/cook taking advantage of a fair offer, but at least be up front about the background.
5)  I treasure the reviews and information that I can glean from this and other forums.  This means that I come here for unbiased (or at least as much as possible) information by technically qualified users.  I can usually weed out what I need just from searching through older threads, finding too much information is usually the problem.
6)  When people are talking highly about a product they have not tried I get suspicious.  When people scream in defense, I get more suspicious...I'm just saying...
7)  I am in no way questioning anyone's integrity and hope there is no real reason to do this.
8)  The OP asked for your thoughts--I obliged--only with my honest opinion.

 

All this being said, I do hope that Mark can help to regenerate interest in American made knives--whatever god you may or may not believe in would know that more products made in this country are a good thing.  I sure can't afford most of the good quality knives made in the states, at least his knives are affordable for the masses (though more expensive than the Sab he is supposedly copying), and with some good R&D (including feedback from you chefs) he may have a shot.  I just want to see it done the right way so I can feel good about potentially trying one myself and then possibly recommending his knives to others. 

 

One final note, I do think that from the picture of the knife, the profile looks to be more rounded than my Sab's but that could just be the dynamics of photography.

 

Let's all go have a beer,

Cheers,

Chinacats

 

 


Edited by chinacats - 3/19/12 at 9:19pm
post #16 of 79

well said, o.k. i"m buying!

 

post #17 of 79

Nice handle.  Somewhat thick and sturdy with a significant distal taper to a long, pointy, thin tip.  A workhorse type knife.  I'd like to see a little better finish on the blade grind for $200.  Overall a nice knife and made in the U.S.A. is kinda cool and somewhat rare these days.

post #18 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckFat View Post

 

 

 I had no idea you were working for Mark but I was surprised to see your comment in an earlier thread where you said you wanted to come off as a "shill".  Facetious or not you were obviously paid by CKTG for a review. Having said that what I posted upthread was in no way directed at you, or about you.


That was actually a typo- I meant to say I didn't want to come off a shill but I noticed it too late to change it.  I take no offense, but for information my review does not appear at all at the CKtG site since I only tried the prototype, not the production blade.  The "review" was feedback for him, and it was more "rewards program" for a "frequent flyer" than a bribe.

 

I don't work for CKtG in any conventional sense.  If anything I am an independent contractor.  I have done finish sharpening for a couple handfuls of knives, but beyond that I have no affiliation except as a long standing (and happy) customer.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #19 of 79

BTW, I don't think it's a "joke" to discuss OOtB sharpness.  I could personally care less if it's sharp OOtB- I almost always sharpen a new knife before I use it no matter how sharp it is.  So far I've only ever found one that I doubt I could improve upon, and technically it was finish sharpened before the sale but after the maker was done with it.  But lots of people do care.  For non-enthusiasts, the sharpest the knife will ever be is when it's new.  So if it's not very sharp new they're in for disappointment.

 

I also disagree that allowing users to post reviews damages their worth.  Amazon.com is a great example of reviews that are very useful.  While it's true that there are few bad reviews @ CKtG, just peruse the products- Mark doesn't sell much "junk".  If you don't like the knife it's probably because it didn't suit your particular style or you got a defective piece. 

 

Lastly, I probably shouldn't even have mentioned that I occasionally sharpen knives for Mark.  I get no discount at all when I purchase from him, nor do I get any kind of "kickback" for posting a review.  For all I know he doesn't even read them.  If you read any of my reviews I think you'll find they're pretty much "warts and all."

 

I will almost certainly buy an Ultimatum when the M390 models come in, and I will certainly share my opinions here and elsewhere.  Take them with a grain of salt if you will but I pull no punches.  A disappointing product will be described as such.  So far CKtG has a pretty strong track record.  The only issue I'm aware of is a batch of Addict 2s that had some noticeable overgrind on the last 2 mm near the right heel.  Those of use who sharpened them for Mark put a couple hours per knife into fixing the issue, so anyone who bought one finish sharpened never would have noticed.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #20 of 79

Phaedrus,

 

I do not call into question your integrity.  That being said, "If anything I am an independent contractor.  I have done finish sharpening for a couple handfuls of knives, but beyond that I have no affiliation..." or "The "review" was feedback for him, and it was more "rewards program" for a "frequent flyer" than a bribe," this to me is an affiliation...again not saying you can't be unbiased, but as an independent contractor it is not wise to step on the hand that may be writing you a check...or giving you a discount on knives.  It is more than obvious that most people are extremely happy purchasing from Mark (again, include me here), though this is not my point...I just want to know when that affiliation exists, because then I have the ability to take it with a grain of salt.  As BDL has stated numerous times lately, he is being paid to do some writing for Mark...fine and I will take that too with a grain of salt--especially when he recommends a Richmond knife--not because of any lack of integrity (or any issue with the knife itself), but because sometimes these things influence our words/ideas, intentionally or not.

 

As to oob sharpness, I agree that many will enjoy this particular quality...worthless as it is to anyone with decent sharpening skills.  Most of the same people that will enjoy this will also be swayed by the 'sucker reviews' on the site as well.  Sucks to be them.

 

Peace,

Chinacats

post #21 of 79

My agreement with Mark includes his agreement that I approach any reviews and equipment recommendations with complete independence.  While I think I have a "duty to disclose," I don't think the agreement has created bias on my part.  If anyone thinks my integrity is compromised, they should approach the matter directly.

 

I listen to everyone -- not just "pros."  

 

BDL

What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
Reply
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
Reply
post #22 of 79

LOL. With all this "taking w/ a grain of salt", it just goes to show that so many of you don't want "reviews". No, no, no ... what you want is for someone to agree with what you think, thus justifying whatever you want. I've never read a "Phaedrus Review", but given who he is, I'd have faith in it whatever the product. I've never read a "Richmond-made" knife review from BDL. My guess would be that he was a MAC or K-Sab reviewer. Do I need any salt?

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply
post #23 of 79

This seems to be an age-old dilemma for any enthusiast market.  Reviewers can't afford to buy all the product that wants reviewing and does donating product bias the reviewer?

 

I think the net gain to the consumer is positive with donated product as otherwise, there wouldn't be enough comparative reviews to work from.

 

As you read a reviewer, you learn what that reviewer likes. It's not so much that you need to agree with the reviewers conclusions as to learn how to work from the reviewers known preferences to how they match yours.

 

For example. most movie critics dislike science-fiction movies. As I'm a  fan of sci-fi, I've learned  that reviews by certain critics merit 2 stars more for my preferences if the movie is science fiction. So even negative reviews can work favorably for your preferences once you learn the quirks of the reviewer. Did it matter that the critic got to see the movie for free and was compensated for his time writing the review? Nope, the information is still useful and valid, but I  have to learn to read the reviewer.

 

There are problems with on-line reviews. Amazon's reviews and ratings are actually less useful than you'd think once you do the analysis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn7e0J9m6rE reveals a lot of the myth behind the J-curves of Amazon's reviews. It's long, but very enlightening.

post #24 of 79

BDL, if I have in any way questioned your integrity on this issue then I certainly misspoke.  I refer to you because you are the only person here willing to at least state openly that you have some type of working relationship with CKTG.  I would still prefer to take you with a gos (albeit a superfine grain of fleur de sel) simply because having any relationship has potential to 'put on the blinders,' so to speak...I really feel that it takes super extra effort to avoid these pitfalls and no doubt that if anyone can, it would be you.  As to your reviews, you have a way of detailing profiles, edge performance, etc. that makes sense to those of us who are slightly (at best) less informed.  Being able to interpret why what works for you may or may not work for someone else with the same knife is a truly valuable skill that you seem generous enough to be willing to take on many times a day...it truly is appreciated (same goes for a few others here as well).

 

Iceman, I think you have missed my point so will only try to clarify simply that I do want reviews by people who know what they are talking about (you, BDL, and others)...this is why I peruse these boards.   I truly believe that the information available to users on these sites is tremendous, although I wouldn't feel comfortable citing any of it as a reliable source in any type of reference work:>)  I want these views/reviews as unbiased as possible and herein lies my problem...I have the feeling/impression that many here are unduly influenced by Mark for whatever reason that is.  You of all people jump up and down in defense when I mention a possible conflict of interest perplexes to say the least.  I understand you to only use Forschner and Chicago Cutlery (old school that is), while Mark's site is anything but this.  As to taking you with a grain of salt--yes a very large chunk (and maybe some garlic, cumin, turmeric, asafetida, mustard seeds, Trinidad 7-pot...).  Please realize that your constant reminders as to the usefulness of skills are not to be neglected, but I do think you tend to be the race car driver that prefers driving his '62 Ford pickup (read Forschner) that runs like a top (first class edge) to work while the guy next door putts to work in his 2012 Porsche (Masamoto)...and yes your neighbor can't drive worth a crap...that being said you both take great pleasure in the drive...remember many here are not chefs and have no desire to be able to bust out the slick knife skills you or some of the others are capable of...just fyi, I too take great pleasure in peeling apples/potatoes with my carbon Suji, though likely not as fast as you could...and while I know that it is plain wrong, I only do it because I can:>)

 

I promise this is my last post on the subject,

Cheers,

Chinacats


Edited by chinacats - 3/20/12 at 10:50pm
post #25 of 79

LOL. OK Chinacats. I guess I've got to explain too. I'm influenced by Mark in a very simple way. He has given to me freely his time and knowledge whenever I've called and talked his ear off. I haven't got any special deals, certainly nothing product-wise for free. All I've gotten was quality professional friendly personal customer service, for free. After that, LOL again, I'm not the old-time dinosaur I may come off as. I use the knives I do because I'm generally broke. Let me tell you, CC and VF knives aren't the end all, just what I have. There are all kinds of cool new/different products that I'd like. I am very much old-school though. All that part about "the constant reminders as to the usefulness of skills" is maybe just my answer to so many non-professional "home cooks" talking about specs that don't much ever come up professionally. I'm not saying that that is bad, just the view from my side.

 

** By-the-way ... I don't have any special knife skills. I just don't work in any way that I have to do anything over again.

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply
post #26 of 79

Oh, well...not much more to say, I guess.  There are guys who only trust Consumer Reports because they don't take advertising; supposedly Car & Driver won't be honest about a Chevy because GM might not spend any money on print ads there if they don't say nice things.  I get that and I imagine to some degree it may happen.  But to me it's a little bit "tinfoil hat" to think we're all dancing on CKtG's strings.lol.gif  He's never once asked me to write something nice, nor have I ever felt compelled to do so just to make him happy.  Same goes for Amazon reviews- I'm pretty blunt.  So far I've never bought anything from CKtG that I wasn't happy with.  Of course, partly that's because I'm a pretty educated kitchen consumer.

 

That said, I'm not offended in the slightest if you discount all of my reviews.  All a review could possibly be would be a data point, hopefully one of many that a prospective buyer would weigh before making a purchase.  My opinion might be very valuable if you knew me and my likes and dislikes very well.  Say you and I had 10 knives that were the same.  If I gave a detailed opinion on each of them you'd pretty quickly be able to tell how our tendencies compare.  Then, by what I've said in the past you might be able to glean a lot of info even from my review of a knife I hated.

 

I will say though that your risks are pretty low when dealing with CKtG.  They're good guys, and they want happy customers.  They'll treat you right.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #27 of 79

Where are the reviews of the Ultimatum?  I haven't seen any yet.  In the link at the beginning of this thread there was just a video and there are videos for darn near everything on CKTG.  I'd love to read a review where someone is blowing smoke up the rear end of this knife talking about how great it is. 

post #28 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by racineboxer View Post

Where are the reviews of the Ultimatum?  I haven't seen any yet.  In the link at the beginning of this thread there was just a video and there are videos for darn near everything on CKTG.  I'd love to read a review where someone is blowing smoke up the rear end of this knife talking about how great it is. 


 

OK, I lied about no more on this thread...you guys are great...please see post 17...I think you already did that...AAAUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHH!

 

Chinacats

 

post #29 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatch View Post

I think the net gain to the consumer is positive with donated product as otherwise, there wouldn't be enough comparative reviews to work from.

 

As you read a reviewer, you learn what that reviewer likes. It's not so much that you need to agree with the reviewers conclusions as to learn how to work from the reviewers known preferences to how they match yours.

 

Did it matter that the critic got to see the movie for free and was compensated for his time writing the review? Nope, the information is still useful and valid, but I  have to learn to read the reviewer.

 

 



With all due respect I really disagree with this. When any of us read a Movie review I think we all know we are reading the words of a professional writer. Some one who is paid to watch movies and write reviews.

However that's not a very good analogy to CT and knives for a number of reasons.

When people come to CT (until recently) there hasn't been any indication that they were talking to some one who was paid to write reviews by a vendor or given a knife in exchange for a review. The notion that no one is swayed in any way after being employed, or receiving freebies simply defies human nature. The comments in this thread alone clearly show that and a few read like an on going advertisement. Clearly there is not only bias but strong bias. That's not even touching on the suggestion of just flat out being paid to write reviews.

As far as getting "to know" a reviewer I've been coming here on/off for years and had no idea some of this was going on. In retrospect it's seems as though this has been going on for some time. I recall a bit of discourse when I ordered directly from Ikkanshi-Tafatsuna and the suggestion was put forth that no one should order directly from Japan but rather from CKTG. So there has indeed been a push by some members here towards a single vendor for some time.

That certainly has an impact on any forum.

The main reason I posted in this fiasco was what I viewed as a personal attack on a member that had a difference of opinion at the top of the thread. The offending post does seem to have had some judicious editing (for the better) so it doesn't read quite the same now.  I have seen other forums with paid vendor reps participating get dominated by "cliques". Any one that disagrees or has a difference of opinion gets railed and piled on. That limits participation and fair consumer evaluation of the products we talk about. I'm making the assumption that's why CT has an explicit rule against posting reviews of products from those you are, or have been have been employed by in the past. I didn't care much for cliques in high school and still don't.

In either event If I didn't make it clear upthread I was not referring to any one here at CT in regards to "shilling" but it is quite clear CKTG does pay for reviews and use free product as incentive to write reviews. At least this is openly being discussed and is hopefully a step in the right direction.

 

 

Dave

 

 

I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
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I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
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post #30 of 79

Dave,

 

I have great respect for you, but disagree strongly. 

 

If you read a bunch of reviews here on CT, what you'll find is that very few people know diddly about knives but that they LOVE the knives they bought and think they're all 5/5.  To my mind that's a bigger waste of bandwidth than reviews written by people who know something and are able to make meaningful comments, comparisons and create a meaningful context -- whether or not the knives were comped.

 

I've received a couple of knives  in exchange for reviews -- but none from CKtG. One of those reviews is here on CT, it's for the Forschner 10" Cimeter.  I like the knife, use it frequently, think its very good for what it is, but only gave it 3 out of 5 stars.  Read the review and find the bias.  Heck, just find disagreement.  I dare you.

 

As it happens I get quite a few things at discount not because I promise reviews (I don't do many), but because I ASK for them.  If you choose to pay [gag] retail without at least investigating the price, that's between you and your conscience.  Furthermore, comping or discounting equipment to reviewers is standard practice.  If you watch E-Bay you'll see scores of knives sold by professional and influential amateur reviewers.  

 

In the meantime, I'm going to continue to recommend CKtG for the service and selection, applaud Mark for keeping his ear to the ground, and judge every one of their offerings I try on its own merits.  In the same way, I'll continue to recommend JKI for its service and well chosen selection, applaud Jon for his knowledge, discernment, and the way he aggressively approaches his own and his customers' educations, and judge every one of their offerings I try on its own merits -- despite the fact that not only do I not get a discount but Jon owes me a beer.

 

BDL

What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
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What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
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