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Richmond Ultimatum - Page 3

post #61 of 79

Hey look, my apology. I guess I just got confused with two(2) guys named "Dave". I thought you were "Dave Martell". My mistake. Sorry.

 

https://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/


Edited by IceMan - 4/8/12 at 5:59pm
post #62 of 79
Enough of the ridiculous conversation. I'd just like to know how the Ultimatum is.

James
post #63 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post


That was actually a typo- I meant to say I didn't want to come off a shill but I noticed it too late to change it.  I take no offense, but for information my review does not appear at all at the CKtG site since I only tried the prototype, not the production blade.  The "review" was feedback for him, and it was more "rewards program" for a "frequent flyer" than a bribe.

 

I don't work for CKtG in any conventional sense.  If anything I am an independent contractor.  I have done finish sharpening for a couple handfuls of knives, but beyond that I have no affiliation except as a long standing (and happy) customer.


 

Since it is true that an independent contractor is not a paid employee, you are right...I am wrong...but you are still associated by way of something more than simply proprietor and customer.


Edited by chinacats - 4/8/12 at 7:43pm
post #64 of 79

I think Martell mostly hangs out on his own forum nowadays.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #65 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinacats View Post


 

Since it is true that an independent contractor is not a paid employee, you are right...I am wrong...but you are still associated by way of something more than simply proprietor and customer.



Well, now that everyone knows each person can decide for himself/herself if that makes a difference.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #66 of 79

Anyone get their hands on either of the new Ultimatums yet? I'm looking to buy a new knife in the next few months, and I'm wondering if it would be good for me. I really like the Masamoto KS profile, but the actual Masamoto is a little out of my price range. I'm also interested in the Konesuke HD, but I'm worried about getting a laser for my primary knife in the kitchen. From what I've read, it seems like the Ultimatum has a bit more heft than a laser, the Masamoto KS profile, great steel, and a reasonable price. However, I'd like to get some more opinions before I move forward.

 

Would a Mac Pro or a Masamoto VG be a better bet for the money?

 

James

 

post #67 of 79


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgordon13 View Post

Enough of the ridiculous conversation. I'd just like to know how the Ultimatum is.
James


seriously. Somebody discuss the topic or change the title of this post.

craig

post #68 of 79


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgordon13 View Post

Enough of the ridiculous conversation. I'd just like to know how the Ultimatum is.
James


seriously. Lets get on topic or the title of this topic should be changed. 

post #69 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgordon13 View Post

Anyone get their hands on either of the new Ultimatums yet? I'm looking to buy a new knife in the next few months, and I'm wondering if it would be good for me. I really like the Masamoto KS profile, but the actual Masamoto is a little out of my price range. I'm also interested in the Konesuke HD, but I'm worried about getting a laser for my primary knife in the kitchen. From what I've read, it seems like the Ultimatum has a bit more heft than a laser, the Masamoto KS profile, great steel, and a reasonable price. However, I'd like to get some more opinions before I move forward.

 

Would a Mac Pro or a Masamoto VG be a better bet for the money?

 

James

 


James I think you have some work to do, and some of it may be a little tougher than most being the Ulti is pretty new and there are less people who can offer first hand info etc.

 

I know your just commenting on the profile, but yes the KS looks to be very nice.

 

It really comes down to what you are truly looking for in your next knife (and from what I have found that may actually be very different than what you might think you want lol) and I also would not discount the Konosuke HD as first it really is not so thin you will be afraid to use it sure its a laser but this is proving more of a positive than anything else, second if your a typical home cook you will have ample time to learn to use it properly and also keep it clean etc (not under the gun for production like a pro cook is at most times etc), and lastly I have to admit the more I use my HD the more I like it, and double that feeling for the more I sharpen it too :)

 

Sorry I can not offer any comparison to the Ulti as like I said not too many have one and I am one of them etc, but like anything else just take in all the information that is available and evaluate which you believe would better suit you etc. and ask as many questions as you can.

 

Maybe this will help you to get started. What is it that you like about the Ulti? how about the HD? any dislikes, or concerns?

 

Also have you already created a short list that includes just these two? Or are you open to others that may share some of the main characteristics of these two knives? If so which do you believe is more important to you?

 

I know I have had very different objectives with my knife purchases. Value and price to performance has been at the top of the list, and later so has performance, quality, steel, and price fell further down the list, and therefore have purchased very different knives depending on what I was after.

 

Actually I somehow thought it would be a lot easier as time went on and though my first purchase was the most difficult by far there still is a process that can not seem to be avoided if you want to be comfortable with your purchase. Also the fact that subsequent purchases seem to only increase in cost as we try to improve on the knives we have etc seems to only make things more stressful as there is a big difference between making a $50 mistake, and a $200 or $400 mistake lol.

 

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

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"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #70 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by LennyD View Post


...the fact that subsequent purchases seem to only increase in cost as we try to improve on the knives we have etc seems to only make things more stressful as there is a big difference between making a $50 mistake, and a $200 or $400 mistake lol.

 



LOL. Thanks for concisely writing what I'm already thinking, still brand-new to good knives. :D

post #71 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by SameGuy View Post



LOL. Thanks for concisely writing what I'm already thinking, still brand-new to good knives. biggrin.gif

Maybe then it could or would be better to take a step back and start from the beginning.

I am sure that most who have offered all kinds of good advice would not mind going through the paces to help you out, but you may consider a different title more in line with need help choosing my first Japanese style knife etc instead of just picking between two Knives etc.

When I first found my way here I thought I knew what I wanted from reading various threads on many sites, but found out there is a lot more to this than I had thought, and ultimately after some time with the knives I did decide on that I also will end up with very different knives than I had ever anticipated (and also more expensive too) but still think the learning curve was a big part of it that also made the more expensive purchases more comfortable and better suited to my particular needs.

Make sense?

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply

 

"love my country" but "fear my government"  Something is just wrong with this

 

 

 

Looking for info on entry level J-knives? Need help on finding the most bang for your buck? Hope you enjoy learning from the info here, I know I did!

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63213/tojiro-dp-f-809-240mm-g...

Reply
post #72 of 79

Lenny,

 

Thanks for the response. You are right, the "newness factor" of the Richmond Ultimatum makes it difficult fully to evaluate. I certainly am not worried about having to spend extra time caring for my knife. I tend to baby the knives I have now, so that's not a factor (i.e., carbon is fine with me).

 

The others on my list besides the Ultimatum and the Konesuke HD were the Mac Pro and the Masamoto VG.

 

I'm not entirely sure whether I want to go with a Japanese- or a Western-style handle, however. As I mentioned before, I really like the Masamoto KS profile, though I imagine that the Konesuke HD profile wouldn't be difficult to adjust to.

 

I'm leaning pretty heavily toward the Konesuke HD, but I keep having the Ultimatum pop up in my mind before I seal the deal (mostly whether it's better bang-for-buck and whether I'll be more happy in the long run with the profile). I'm not in a terrible rush, so I might just hold out until more reviews of the Ultimatum hit the interwebs.

 

James

post #73 of 79

The Konosuke HD wa-gyuto is in an entirely different class than the MAC Pro and Masamoto VG.  The biggest differences are weight, and their respective potentials for absolute sharpness.  While Masamotos have something of a magic profile, it's not that much better than either the MAC or the Konosuke, and unless you've narrowed down the differences between the other knives to the point where profile is determinative I wouldn't make the choice on that basis.  

 

In my own case, if I were buying a stainless, mass-produced, yo-gyuto I'd put the Masamoto over the MAC for just that reason; but I feel the MAC has enough advantages favoring the the first good knife purchaser so that it should be the usual choice -- at least between those two.  

 

The primary benefit to wa over yo is weight, otherwise one handle style isn't really superior to the other.  And if you have a reasonably good grip, there isn't much to prefer between the two or much difficulty in switching from one to the other.  One thing about them, if you're seriously interested in a wa knife, get the "next size up" compared to a yo.  The primary difference is in how their measured, but you'll also find the wa just that tiny bit more nimble.  The same is true when it comes to a well-made laser compared to a knife of ordinary (even Japanese ordinary) thickness.  And also true when comparing knives made Japanese thin (not always made in Japan now) to Euros.

 

I haven't got my hands on an Ultimatum.-- at least not yet -- so I'll refrain from commenting.  But when it comes to the Konosuke HD, I'm happy recommending it as a GREAT knife and the performance equal of anything else out there.  Same-same for the Masamoto KS which does have the magic profile, but also carbon's drawbacks.  I also like the Tadatsuna gyutos a great deal -- whether "Inox" (G3) or Shirogami (Shiro #2) -- and the Gesshin Gingas too.  

 

The MAC is the stiffest and most robust knife of the bunch, but it's still Japanese thin and Japanese hard.  That means you'll want at least one "heavy-duty" backup knife that allows you to cut through heavy gourds, through rib tips and other tough gristle, through fishbones, up against animal bones, etc.

 

The "maybe not for a beginner" caveat with lasers doesn't really apply to home cooks as much as to guys in a pro kitchen, either starting out or who just never developed good skills.  The blades bend very easily if they're not held square or allowed to pronate during the cut, and tend to flex too much.  On the other hand, if you're not up against a lot of time pressure, it's no big deal.  Just keep the knife straight and you'll be fine.

 

If you're really looking to up to your game in the kitchen, buying a high end knife is one part of the equation, the others are working on your knife and sharpening skills.  A good sharp knife and the skills to use it makes prep a lot more fun. 

 

BDL

post #74 of 79

Anyone get their hands on a Richmond Ultimatum yet? Especially interested in the M390 steel.

post #75 of 79

A line cook bought an Ultimatum and is not pleased with its edge retention.  Don't know about his sharpening abilities but he's big on the 19C27 steel used in Suisen so he expected a lot more.  It's a completely different knife than my Konosuke HD; quite convex, thicker spine and it has more belly as the profile is derived from a Sabatier.  I haven't tried cutting with it yet, nor has he tried the HD.

 

You're interested in the M390, so the above point re: sharpening may be moot.

post #76 of 79

Which Ultimatum?  Counting the soon-to-be-released M930 version it's available in three different steels.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
post #77 of 79

Any of them.

post #78 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgordon13 View Post

Any of them.

 I've seen four different members post on the other knife forum that they've sent them back for a refund. Every one seems to be very tight lipped about it but there seems to be some QC issue. In either event you can search it on KKF and look for those members and contact them via PM for more detailed info. IIR the M390 was supposed to be out months ago.

 

Dave

I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
Reply
post #79 of 79

The M390 batch is running late.  I guess Lamson blew out the motor on the grinder trying to grind them.  Apparently the stuff is extraordinary tough/hard to machine and grind.

 

I haven't tried any of them yet but I'm eagerly awaiting the first batch in M390 to be finished.

"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
"Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
Reply
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