Cooking meat at boiling point

I would like to discuss one point about cooking meat at relatively high temperatures (very close or equal to 212 F or 100C) in moist environment.

We all know that at a certain temperature meat's fat is getting liquid, collagen shrinks and squeeze juices and fats out of meat. As a result, meat gets dry and has unpleasant texture similar to papier mache.

On the other hand, I know a number of traditional dishes when meat is cooked in a liquid at a temperature very close or equal to 212F (I saw a lot of bubbles on liquid's surface and sometimes measured it with thermometer). And at the end meat gets nice, tasty and moist. All of these dishes have some things in common - relatively small pieces of meat (about 1 - 2 inches), pretty long time of cooking (2-3 hours or even more) and the meat is usually lamb or soft cuts of beef.

As for me, I have a theory that due to a long cooking time and high temperature, connective tissues dissolve and stop squeezing fibers. At the same time, natural liquid inside of meat gets boiling, extend and separate fibers from each other. As a result, forces that keep fibers together are getting weak and cooking liquid is getting inside of meat pieces, making them moist.

I would be grateful if you'll share your opinion about this theory. I know, that it has some weak points, looks strange from common point of view and maybe I'm totally mistaken. But I don't have better explanation. :)

Thanks in advance,

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefedb 

I believe you are referring to a stew.

Not exactly. As far as I know, stews are usually cooked far below boiling point, around 175F, so this is not the case.

What I was thinking about is Mid.Eastern pilaf (plov) and some Italian stews. Sometimes it is said that they should be simmered, but in practice people don't really care about it and keep temperature much higher. At least, that's what I saw, tasted and repeated by myself. 

Actually, there are a lot of references saying that meat should not be heated to a temperature of boiling water or it will get dry. I'm just wondering, how it happens that meat that is definitely heated to this temperature is moist and not dry at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koukouvagia 

 And it doesn't have to boil, it can slowly simmer. 

Right, but what happens when it boil? How it comes out that it was boiled, but became moist and tasty? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcarch 

Meat cooked at high temperature will shrink and dry out. It may be "fork-tender", but I like to make the distinction between chewable and truly tender. Meat cooked a long time to "fork-tender" is basically very chewable but not tender. A high quality cut of beef cooked medium rare is tender.

Tenderness is another point. I absolutely agree that fibers of meat that was cooked at low or medium temperatures are more tender than fibers of a meat that was cooked at high temperature. Apparently, that's because proteins coagulate in slightly different ways at different temperatures.

I like cooking low&slow too and do it quite often, but I'm still a little bit scared when it comes to cooking in "danger zone", i.e. lower that 140F. :) Well, I really trust my butcher. But I don't trust that much. :)))

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefedb 

If it bubbles its at least 212 f.  Sousvide  any meat cooked over 140 f is termed denatured.

Honestly, I asked professional biochemist to explain me a difference between denaturation and coagulation of proteins. It looks to me that coagulation is a subset of denaturation, but I won't say that I really understand what is all about, except breaking protein's structure. :))))

ps. alcohol bubbles around 173F. :))))))

Quote:

Originally Posted by olechef 

Check out: http://www.scienceofcooking.com/meat/slow_cooking1.htm

Here its explained pretty simple.

Guys, I really beg you. :))) I opened this thread not to discuss meat cooking at temperatures around or below 160F. I was talking about temperatures around 212F.

212F and 160F are different universes. :))

Quote:

Originally Posted by benway 

Anyways, the ultimate example of what this thread is about is meat cooked in a pressure cooker.  In any other situation, the water inside the meat can only get to 212--in a pressure cooker it can get much higher on the inside.  This changes the texture dramatically, breaks down connective tissue ~3x faster due to higher heat, but actually causes less drying out as the boiling point of whatever liquid has been raised by the nature of a pressure cooker.

Thank you for great example!

Although, I'm not sure that I understand how raising of the boiling point causes less drying out, because boiling point raises in meet and in liquid more or less at the same time. 

phatch,

I really value you opinion and your contribution to this thread. And I would absolutely agree with you, if I didn't taste meat that was definitely exposed to boiling temperature (I mentioned small pieces and long cooking) and that was moist and tasty. Well, you can say that this is a matter of personal taste. I will agree again. But that's why I referred to traditional dishes that were cooked for centuries. Sure, I can make a mistake about taste. But lots of people who live in particular area and cook something in particular way for years? No, they can't. :)

Actually, I think that there is a gap between common opinion about rules of meat cooking that say that meat should never be heated to boiling temperature. And a real life, that shows that sometimes in some cases it may be heated to this temperature and the result will be good. :)) 

For example, when I have a decent cut of marbled beef tenderloin from Texas, I don't even think about heating it to anything higher than 70C because this temperature will definitely ruin it's taste, natural juice and natural fat. But if I'll have a cut of Mid.Asian lamb fillet, I'll certainly consider cooking it around boiling point, according to some Mid.Asian techniques.

ps. It's really impressive that you live THAT high. I wish I had a chance to cook something at about 5000 ft. :)