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Nacho cheese sauce

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 

I really like the Tostido's nacho cheese sauce in a jar.  I realize this is not real cheese, just a processed cheese food product.  But I do like it.  How can I make a nacho cheese sauce that will be better?

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #2 of 43

Rico's brand nacho cheese sauce is really tasty. I have never tried t make my own.

post #3 of 43

If you like it use it as a base then add more real cheese if you like

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #4 of 43

Cheezwiz and Rotel.

Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
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Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
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post #5 of 43

Thats what I use home only now I use Velveeta Mexican in with it/.  Or for a great variation Velveeta mild mexican and Walmart Pineapple/chippolte Salsa  out of sight flavor and at least it has some cheese.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #6 of 43
Thread Starter 

Wait, are you all telling me that there is no way to make a nacho cheese from home without using convenience food?  There has to be someone out there who can think of a way to make a mexican style cheese sauce.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #7 of 43

kk,

while it may not be exactly what you are looking for, google or search 'queso fundido'. there are many versions...some with chorizo, sausage, mushrooms,green chilies tomatoes etc. etc etc. i prefer the no meat version made with white cheddar, roasted poblanos or chipotles...sometimes both.....yes, it is easy to make if you have the right melting cheeses.....mozzarella, monterey jack(with peppers), chipotle cheese, asadero, manchego, colby all work well.

joey

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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post #8 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koukouvagia View Post

Wait, are you all telling me that there is no way to make a nacho cheese from home without using convenience food?  There has to be someone out there who can think of a way to make a mexican style cheese sauce.

Make fondue with Cheddar Cheese and add Pico de Gallo...

Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
Reply
Taste: The sensation derived from food, as interpreted thru the tongue to brain sensory system.
Flavor: The overall impression combining taste, odor, mouthfeel and trigeminal perception.
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post #9 of 43

Sure there are ways but chances are people wont like it because they are so used to the fake stuff.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #10 of 43

sorry chefed, but that can't really be what you think is it?...really really?  that to me is just one sad sorry excuse not to do something better or right or different...no offense meant here, just unbelievability.

joey

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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post #11 of 43

OK. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.  Asking actually, but you do get the point. I'm curious about what is so bad about Velveeta

 

I had too much time on my hands one(1) day last winter between watching 'da chi.gif and the chi.gif. I had two(2) thrill-seeking kids (1 HS and 1 JrHi) to entertain who wanted to cook. They are very good for kids, and very responsible. We looked up Velveeta and tried to make some up. It's not so difficult. What we came up with was very acceptable. 

 

Equal amounts of shredded Colby and Cheddar melted down in a make-shift dbl-boiler, like with chocolate. A cup or so of heavy cream with a teaspoon of corn starch whisked in until smooth. We used the Gatorade bottle method and shook the bajeebies out of it. It thickened up a little bit, which was a very nice thing that we liked but wasn't expecting. When the cheese was melted to our satisfaction we slowly poured in the cream, whisking thoroughly as we poured until we thought it was the proper creaminess. We poured the cheese mix into a non-stick muffin pan and let it cool. It came out nice. We made about five(5) different batches with different flavor profiles. All of everything was pleasantly edible. 

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

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post #12 of 43

The Mexican melting cheese I see in all the Mexican markets and in regular grocery stores here is Chihuahua cheese. It often says "Mexican Melting Cheese" on the package. There are several domestic (U.S.) producers. It's a white cheese that comes in small rounds, is quite mild and melts to a gooey smoothness. I'm not sure if it's what you are after. Chicago is very Mexican and you can get it any grocery store here. I'm not sure how widely available it is in the rest of the country.

post #13 of 43

Give you an example .I work part time in a ver affluent country club. Its mostly Jewish clientel. We use tons of chopped liver. They used to buy Blueridge Brand 5 pound tubs out of New York. The stuff is really vile and overly sweet. We startd to make our own with Real chicken liver real onion real eggs and spices. The membership liked the old one because they were use to the Americanized sweet taste. Same thing with the Matzoh Balls they liked the processed frozen, because no matter where they went, all of them tasted the same cause evryone used the same frozen ones and this is what they were used to.  We continued to make our own liver and by adding sugar they liked it.  This same scenerio can be applied to many items.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #14 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceMan View Post

OK. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.  Asking actually, but you do get the point. I'm curious about what is so bad about Velveeta

 

I had too much time on my hands one(1) day last winter between watching 'da chi.gif and the chi.gif. I had two(2) thrill-seeking kids (1 HS and 1 JrHi) to entertain who wanted to cook. They are very good for kids, and very responsible. We looked up Velveeta and tried to make some up. It's not so difficult. What we came up with was very acceptable. 

 

Equal amounts of shredded Colby and Cheddar melted down in a make-shift dbl-boiler, like with chocolate. A cup or so of heavy cream with a teaspoon of corn starch whisked in until smooth. We used the Gatorade bottle method and shook the bajeebies out of it. It thickened up a little bit, which was a very nice thing that we liked but wasn't expecting. When the cheese was melted to our satisfaction we slowly poured in the cream, whisking thoroughly as we poured until we thought it was the proper creaminess. We poured the cheese mix into a non-stick muffin pan and let it cool. It came out nice. We made about five(5) different batches with different flavor profiles. All of everything was pleasantly edible. 

 

May try something like this.  I would've thought it needed a roux perhaps, like the cheese sauce I make for mac n cheese. 

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #15 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefedb View Post

Give you an example .I work part time in a ver affluent country club. Its mostly Jewish clientel. We use tons of chopped liver. They used to buy Blueridge Brand 5 pound tubs out of New York. The stuff is really vile and overly sweet. We startd to make our own with Real chicken liver real onion real eggs and spices. The membership liked the old one because they were use to the Americanized sweet taste. Same thing with the Matzoh Balls they liked the processed frozen, because no matter where they went, all of them tasted the same cause evryone used the same frozen ones and this is what they were used to.  We continued to make our own liver and by adding sugar they liked it.  This same scenerio can be applied to many items.

 

I get your point, but we're talking about me here.  This nacho cheese is for me.  And I live in NY, and people around here are serious about their food.  You've never seen so many "farmers" in a city before.  Everyone is a natural lifestyle expert and makes food from scratch.  Nobody I know (except for me) even touches the processed nacho sauce.  And besides, this nacho cheese sauce is for me, I don't share my cheese willingly.

 

It is true what you say though, I grew up on instant mashed and although I can truly enjoy a good hearty mashed potatoes when someone else makes it I stick to the boxed stuff at home.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #16 of 43

Please I lived in New York for over 45 years. Half the population go to restaurants and don't know what they are eating. The other half are down here in Florida and they don't know either but they are all Gurus and Mavens.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #17 of 43
Thread Starter 

Please yourself.  I don't interact with the half of the population that you refer to.  My circle of peeps must be different than yours.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #18 of 43

I am sure  they are.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #19 of 43
Well, do you want the sauce to work hot, cold, room temp? Because I don't think you can have all three.

For processed goo, I have a soft spot for the Frito Lay Jalapeno Cheddar. Great at room temp, but I don't like it nearly as well once it's been refrigerated. Which holds true of all of them really. Nothing's that good cold from the fridge for this purpose.

For hot, I've had the Velveeta concoctions, and they always seem watered down. I've liked a Mornay style sauce hot, but it too is pretty hard on the chips with its high liquid content. By Mornay, I mean a bechamel with some Goya Sofrito base and a pepper jack cheese.

If I don't have any of the Jalapeno Cheddar on hand (because my 12 year old inhales it) I'll grate cheese onto chips and microwave. Tough to get just the right amount of melt and not overcooked cheese at some points, but a good compromise.

I love nachos, even the bad ones are good.
post #20 of 43
Thread Starter 

Must be served hot.  I'm thinking something in the style of an artichoke dip minus the artichokes plus the mexican pizazz.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #21 of 43

You could try making a classic style mornay sauce (basically bechemel sauce with cheese added) and then smoothing it out with the addition of a velveeta type processed cheese.

 

Processed cheese will give you the texture you want but not the true cheese flavor, where real cheese will be stringy and taste good, but not really be a true "nacho" style cheese sauce. If you try combining both, you might get a good texture with good flavor.

 

Making your own bechemel/mornay would allow you to flavor it with the addition of onions, garlic, chilis, etc (that can all be strained out alter if you wish) and create a better depth.

 

You could even go the extra mile and give it a minute in a blender once you've incorporated the velveeta. 

post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Someday View Post

You could try making a classic style mornay sauce (basically bechemel sauce with cheese added) and then smoothing it out with the addition of a velveeta type processed cheese.

 

Processed cheese will give you the texture you want but not the true cheese flavor, where real cheese will be stringy and taste good, but not really be a true "nacho" style cheese sauce. If you try combining both, you might get a good texture with good flavor.

 

Making your own bechemel/mornay would allow you to flavor it with the addition of onions, garlic, chilis, etc (that can all be strained out alter if you wish) and create a better depth.

 

You could even go the extra mile and give it a minute in a blender once you've incorporated the velveeta. 

sorry but isn't the whole idea to NOT use processed cheese? if you're gonna use a little, you may as well use a LOT....what the hell's the difference? 

kk. did you ever google queso fundido to have a look see? i think the mexicans have been doing 'nacho' style cheese sauces for a very looonng time...mexican nacho cheese dip/sauce is not just bechamel with cheese ....gotta share one little thing...i have had a 3# block of velveeta( that i somehow inherited from someones' party 20 years ago), sitting on my shelf in the restaurant...i just keep it in the box just to look at and squeeze evey summer when i return...it has not changed in 20 years and has been through 20 colorado winters...and summers, unrefridgerated....imagine that... what 'cheese' can do that and not change? hmm,sounds exactly what i want to put in my body...man, if someone could just harness that into a face  or thigh cream though, then you'd have something

joey

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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post #23 of 43

OK.    What do yo call cheese that doesn't belong to you? ....................... wait for it .....................................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NA[t]  -  CHO   -   CHEESE

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

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post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by durangojo View Post

sorry but isn't the whole idea to NOT use processed cheese? if you're gonna use a little, you may as well use a LOT....what the hell's the difference? 

kk. did you ever google queso fundido to have a look see? i think the mexicans have been doing 'nacho' style cheese sauces for a very looonng time... ....gotta share one little thing...i have had a 3# block of velveeta( that i somehow inherited from someones' party 20 years ago), sitting on my shelf in the restaurant...i just keep it in the box just to look at and squeeze evey summer when i return...it has not changed in 20 years and has been through 20 colorado winters...and summers, unrefridgerated....imagine that... what 'cheese' can do that and not change? hmm,sounds exactly what i want to put in my body...man, if someone could just harness that into a face  or thigh cream though, then you'd have something

joey

 

I'm not usually for endorsing or using velveeta cheese. This is a forum for home cooks and as such, we should be aware that everyone has different tastes and likes and skill levels. I would never recommend cooking/serving this type of thing in a restaurant, but, again, this is for home cooks. I was in this thread to try and help the OP--the OP asked how to make a better queso sauce, and I gave my opinion based on what he/she described as being his/her favorite. 

 

And it is true, however unsavory YOU may find it, that velveeta and other processed cheeses have a unique and smooth texture when melted that is nearly impossible to replicate using just regular cheese. So, in order to get the processed cheese texture, you have to use it. I recommended the best of both worlds--flavor from good cheese, and texture from the velveeta. 

 

And I'm well aware of what queso fundido is. It has a much more distinctive melted/stringy texture than an americanized "queso" dip and as such, I tried to help the OP answer the question using the specific "nacho" cheese as a guideline. Where did I say that "mexican nacho cheese dip/sauce is not just bechamel with cheese?" 

 

Again, I'm aware of the difference. The OP question wasn't how to make queso fundido or mexican cheese sauce, it was how to make something similar yet better than the processed nacho cheese sauce out of a jar. Queso fundido is indeed delicious. But it might not be what the OP is looking for. I wouldn't describe it as "nacho" cheese. To me, nacho cheese is what you get at the ball park or from, say, On the Border and Chili's and such. So I suggested a compromise. 

post #25 of 43
Thread Starter 

Ok no reason to get upset, everyone's suggestions are valid.  The most identifying trademark of "nacho cheese sauce" is the bright color and the texture.  This texture does not exist in real food it can only be obtained with the addition of ingredients that I do not have or want.  Velveeta is out for this reason, and also because I do not like it.  My friend makes mac n' cheese for his kids using velveeta all the time and it makes me sad, it's their favorite food.  The purpose of this thread is to find an alternative to nacho cheese, I'm a foodie, I will like cheese and I am willing to compromise on the texture.  I'm a little surprised that there have been so many suggestions saying "just give up and go with the fake stuff," I didn't expect that.  But I do understand the point.

 

Joey, you should never get rid of that box of velveeta.  Pass it down to your grandkids one day as a reminder to nourish themselves with real food.  This reminds me of one of the tenets of Michael Pollan.  He says "Don't eat food that your grandmother would not recognize.  Grandmothers don't recognize twinkies, they are not food.  And always eat food that is perishable."  Of course nowadays there are all too many grandmothers who do recognize twinkies but I am happily someone who's grandmother has cultivated and eaten real food all her life.  My grandmother would not recognize or eat a cheeto for any amount of money, I can't even picture her next to a cheeto.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #26 of 43
Thread Starter 

Yes I did look up queso fundito.  It gets a lot of bad reviews, the texture curdles apparently.  But it is a good idea, any excuse to use chorizo I'd say.  And I like the idea of adding some cream cheese to it, perhaps some corn starch to bind.  I've never worked with any mexican cheeses so it may be time to do so now.

"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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"You are what you eat, so don't be fast, cheap, easy, or fake."

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post #27 of 43

Someday,

don't get your lederhosen in a bunch! you and i rarely agree on anything here...this is just the next thing. from my perch i understood the op to be wanting something similar but healthier...something not using pasturized,processed or imitattion cheese products like chhese whiz or velveeta .i didn't think putting green chilies in velveeta was what the op was after.....hmm....what about truffles?  i'm not sure sure that one can duplicate the same yellow orange nacho cheese spread that is pumped onto tortilla chips at movie theatres and food courts without using some sort of processed product. fondue is probably the closest. a cream cheese, beer, worcestershire, mustard, cheddar would be close as well.  queso fundido is stringy(i prefer ooey gooey) but mexican cheeses ARE different in texture than american. there are many american substitutes however, but why not just try the real deal first? nothing to lose...  it is an honest to god cheese dip.i will look up a recipe and send it.....lots of other things to use beside chorizo.... white cheddar with roasted poblanos are the bomb.......just curious, bad reviews by whom? the makers of tostitos? americans who say it doesn't taste the same? that's part of the point though isn't it?

ok, someone can let the dogs back in.... 

joey


Edited by durangojo - 6/14/12 at 7:34am

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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post #28 of 43

+1 with duruangojo.  And + a few additions.

 

Let's start with the term queso fundido.  In practice, it can mean a lot of different things.   As a phrase, it just means... wait for it... melted cheese.  Despite the similarity in words, It isn't -- necessarily -- the same thing but with different cheese as the Franco/Swiss dish we call fondue; although it can be.

 

If you heat many (most?) cheeses in a gratin to the point where they melt, and then let them cool on the table -- yes, they'll break, curdle, and/or form a skin.  That's one way of making fundido, but not the only one.

 

"Nachos" are not traditional Mexican food, and we aren't tied to any particular version with roots in the past because it's "authentic."   

 

There are a lot of different ways to make Nachos.  One of the simplest is to put a smear of beans on a plate, cover it with a layer of chips, cover that with a layer of grated cheddar, and stick it under a cheese melter.  Indeed, that's the version associated with one of the most popular "origin stories."  However, it's pretty clear that isn't what Koukouvagia wants.  If Koukouvagia wants her cheese to stay liquid, she's either going to have to use a processed cheese, or take some steps to keep it that way.  "Regular" cheeses harden when they cool, that's just how it is.  She seems to want something more like a cheese sauce. 

 

I don't think making that sort of thing presents much difficulty, nor do I think creating a good flavor profile or texture for chips is very challenging.  At least not once you've figured out what you actually want.

 

If you don't want to use the usual combination of cheddar and American because American is "processed," you can go with a medium or sharp cheddar along with some Jack (to keep the taste from getting chalky and the texture smooth) for something's that's going to taste pretty close -- especially after you've dumped a bunch of salsa or jalapenos in it.  Nothing wrong with that.  If you want to use packaged, pre-grated "quattro fromaggio" from the supermarket -- why not?  Koukouvagia could make a fondue and serve it over a flame with the chips on the side; a Welsh rarebit over chips instead of toast, with still more chips on the side; or just about any other cheese dish/sauce she likes.  Who's to say no?   

 

It's just melted cheese and chips. 

 

BDL


Edited by boar_d_laze - 6/14/12 at 8:53am
What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
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What were we talking about?
 
http://www.cookfoodgood.com
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post #29 of 43

Then how come many restaurants use canned cheese sauce. (which is simply a loose Velveeta)So then its not only done in a home setting.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Reply

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Reply
post #30 of 43

 

Ingredients: MILK, WATER, MILKFAT, WHEY, WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, SODIUM PHOSPHATE, MILK PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, ALGINATE, SODIUM CITRATE, APOCAROTENAL (COLOR), ANNATTO (COLOR), ENZYMES, CHEESE CULTURE.
 
sodium phosphate: salt and preservative
100px-Monosodium_phosphate.png   100px-Disodium_hydrogen_phosphate.png   100px-Trisodium_phosphate.png
 
alginate: holds moisture, gels and thickens; a flavorless gum, it is used by the foods industry to increase viscosity and as an emulsifier
250px-Alginsäure.svg.png
 
sodium citrate: salts from citric acids, used as an antioxidant and sequestrant, used often but probably not here, for flavor and preservative
220px-Monosodium_citrate.png 220px-Disodium_citrate.png 220px-Trisodium_citrate.png
 

VELVEETA thumbnail.aspx?q=4528627008930223&id=3704c7ba40771f5d78c210eaa08b40e4

Nice common everyday product, that doesn't suck.  It's tasty in numerous common everyday dishes that don't suck.  Lots and lots of common everyday people like Velveeta

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

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