Working the grill, any advice? - Page 4

All you stabby - stabby people (no it doesn't loose juices, i've seen the light) why use a paper-clip, ice pick or cake tester?

Why not use a proper thermometer? 

Is it because of cost?

Is it because of having to memorize temps?

Why do you use a slim piece of metal ? (other than the shiv factor)

Use a thermapen....?~?!?!!

I'm fully in the touch camp but just want to know.

Why?

I dont know who told you that putting a stainless steel probe into a piece of protein does not realease juices is but it's not correct. When you take protein off of direct heat it starts to redistibute its natural juices while resting so if there is a hole or tear which no matter how small it is the juices will exscape while resting instead of when cut.

Harold McGee, Nathan Myrvold, Kenji Alt-Lopez...  and many others have thoroughly debunked the myth of the water-balloon steak.

Resting it after cooking and before slicing is still very important but a poke with a thermometer or fork to flip it will not result in any significant loss of juices.

Maybe it's me but like my username, I like the old ways or "dance with the one that brung me". I learned to cook steaks at Cork 'n' Clever and never forgot a step. There, the Broiler man ran the kitchen and as second you were either a BA or BAA aka dishwasher wanting to become a BA.

This company took steaks more seriously than any I ever encountered. Considering part of their logo was "Beef and Booze" that say's it all. Maybe my memory is a bit faded but I do remember when someone trained to be a Broiler-man, you couldn't get the title until the VP or Pres visited your store and had you cook 5 steaks to temperature. No paper clips, no thermometers, no infrared (it was 1983.....) or any other tricks. Nothing but the 10 digits that Durangojo made reference to earlier. It scared the heck outta me so bad I screwed up and never got the chance but it did teach me how to do things.

Cooking in general is all about the 5 senses, but the grill especially! Unfortunately you can only use sight, touch and sound. The guest gets to use smell and taste and no matter what, it's their taste we cater to not ours. So, no matter how much we insist it been cooked perfectly, they are the judge.

Personally, I'd say to everyone stop sticking the meat and try to develope or better yet, use the talent that earned you the position in the first place. Also, everyone should stop with the sizzlers, mashing and smashing while it's cooking. Doesn't do the food any good.

Yeah I completely agree with the statement about having to cook for VP or Pres. When I moved up to broiler finally (after the other guy left because of drug issues) I had to cook all 5 temps plus all the PLUSES mid rare plus, medium plus etc etc. that was nerve racking. lol.

One of the other ways to tell if a meat is done, and i get weird looks when I say this usually, is by the weight. When you handle as many cuts of beef you learn them inside and out. You can easily pick up a filet and tell just by the weight what temperature it is. It is quite amazing when you reach the point of knowing your restaurant's cuts so well you can just look at them and know when you they're done. Crazy, but it happens. They speak to you lol.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grillbeast 

Reading comprehension is fun! The chicken was cooked to temp. It was being reheated. If salmonella tends to grow in poultry that has already been cooked to temp then that is news to me.

I understand that reading isn't the most important part of cooking but you guys suck at it.

Nowhere did you say it was cooked to temp, you said you were picking it up from the oven, so don't toss around things like reading comprehension until you're clear in your original post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2scoops 

I dont know who told you that putting a stainless steel probe into a piece of protein does not realease juices is but it's not correct. When you take protein off of direct heat it starts to redistibute its natural juices while resting so if there is a hole or tear which no matter how small it is the juices will exscape while resting instead of when cut.

Bunk.  You might as well tell me that searing a piece of meat "seals in the juices." The probe is no thicker than a paper clip. And again, maybe, a small amount of juice comes out. But the idea that a gush of liquid comes rushing out is complete nonsense. And besides, a little juice lost from a cake tester is nothing compared to the juice (and money) lost from overcooking a steak. 

Listen, you guys don't have to agree with using cake testers. I said it a while ago...its another tool. And a damn fine one. Useful for a dozen different things in a kitchen...it works great for a steak. Works great for a sausage. Works great for fish. But hey, I've worked with some damn fine chefs in some damn fine kitchens, and using cake testers was common and expected. When I see videos of Eric Ripert (upthread) using them, it only validates my position. 

I use it in combination with other tools (experience, touch with my fingers, smell, sight, etc) to determine when something is au point or otherwise where it should be. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Someday 

 

Bunk.  You might as well tell me that searing a piece of meat "seals in the juices." The probe is no thicker than a paper clip. And again, maybe, a small amount of juice comes out. But the idea that a gush of liquid comes rushing out is complete nonsense. And besides, a little juice lost from a cake tester is nothing compared to the juice (and money) lost from overcooking a steak. 

 

Listen, you guys don't have to agree with using cake testers. I said it a while ago...its another tool. And a damn fine one. Useful for a dozen different things in a kitchen...it works great for a steak. Works great for a sausage. Works great for fish. But hey, I've worked with some damn fine chefs in some damn fine kitchens, and using cake testers was common and expected. When I see videos of Eric Ripert (upthread) using them, it only validates my position. 

 

I use it in combination with other tools (experience, touch with my fingers, smell, sight, etc) to determine when something is au point or otherwise where it should be. 

Don't bother trying to justify it, as long as it works for you in your kitchen, that's all that matters really.

Like I said last year in this thread, i'll never use a cake tester, but I also won't knock anyone who uses one with success.

Just curious, does anyone here not oil burgers before tossing them on the grill? It drives me nuts when people say don't worry there's enough fat in them that we don't need to oil them. Slightly torn burgers and crud stuck to the grill rods every time they don't oil them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linecook854 

Just curious, does anyone here not oil burgers before tossing them on the grill? It drives me nuts when people say don't worry there's enough fat in them that we don't need to oil them. Slightly torn burgers and crud stuck to the grill rods every time they don't oil them.

Perhaps they are being turned/flipped too soon?

Do your steaks stick?

A burger has more surface fat than a steak.....you don't oil your steaks do you?

Never oiled my burgers, never had them stick either.
 

never seen or heard of this being done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linecook854 

Just curious, does anyone here not oil burgers before tossing them on the grill? It drives me nuts when people say don't worry there's enough fat in them that we don't need to oil them. Slightly torn burgers and crud stuck to the grill rods every time they don't oil them.

I've never seen this done, I wouldn't recommend it, either.

They're definitely ftrying to flip them too soon if they are sticking.

I don't flip them often/too soon, just enough time to make a cross-hatch. Am I the only the one here who applies a little oil to steaks/burgers/fish? I always have and the two other places I have worked (one casual, one very upscale) did this too. Isn't this standard? Not  enough oil to cause flare-ups but just a light layer to prevent sticking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linecook854 

I don't flip them often/too soon, just enough time to make a cross-hatch. Am I the only the one here who applies a little oil to steaks/burgers/fish? I always have and the two other places I have worked (one casual, one very upscale) did this too. Isn't this standard? Not  enough oil to cause flare-ups but just a light layer to prevent sticking.

If they're sticking, you're flipping them before they're ready to release.

I oil pans, not proteins.

On grill I would put a little oil on Filets, but never burgers, or fish.  A little spray release on the grill and fish is usually good to go.

We used to oil the proteins at a place I worked at. It was more about getting the house made seasoning salt to stick to the steak and get a good char from the grill. This was at a very upscale place too, just for info. 

If your burgers are sticking, as people said above, you may be turning them too soon, or try cleaning and oiling/seasoning your grill. 

Never oil the meat only the grill! Starting in 1985, most places I used or allowed an oil rag on the station. Basically it was 2-3 bar mops (folded over and taped at at the top to form a neck and make sure they're the old service linens you buy and not new use from the linen service  Basically, the mop sat in veg oil or shortening and was applied after the char-grill was brushed clean. By the way, that was done every chance possible. If your running your station correctly, you have sections that are rotated through and everything doesn't hit the grill like you're at a holiday BBQ. There should be a method to the insanity.Only time I ever put anything on the steak other than seasoning was when we used a mix of clarified butter when working with a convection broiler. It wasn't to prevent steaks from sticking but to enhance the cooking process and flavor the steak.

Not knowing exactly how things are done by everyone here, the General rule would be..........If you have a clean grill, adjusted to the correct temp (somewhere around 3/4 setting + or - ) and you season the grill, proteins shouldn't stick. If you have areas that are burned clean and with white char, it's too hot. It's definitely a feel for things and also involves paying attention to the food and equipment. Running a grill is just as much "art of cooking" as the saute station.  

I tried oiling the grill yesterday without oiling any proteins (except the salmon) and it did work, somewhat. I scrubbed the rods with the hard brush really well then oiled a rolled up rag and brushed it over the rods. It took off some black stuff and lubricated pretty well. Burgers didn't stick and neither did steaks at first. However, pretty quickly proteins began sticking and I ended up oiling proteins so they wouldn't stick. I don't have the space or time to scrub and lubricate frequently during a dinner shift as we simply have too many proteins to cook on a small grill.

I'm starting to think the oiling the rods thing is not working because the grill never gets cleaned. The lunch cook NEVER cleans the grill or fryer (he was surprised to hear we even had a grill brush!) and I think I am fighting months of build up. He just throws burgers and chicken on and peels them off with shreds off chicken sticking to the grill and his burgers always have pieces missing when he plates.

Does the grill just need a deep cleaning in order for me to oil the rods and not the proteins? Also, do you guys get a nice cross-hatch when you don't oil proteins? It seemed like yesterday the cross-hatches were not a nice when the proteins were not oiled.

Clean the grill and season it as you would cast iron or a griddle.
 

If the grill is extremely bad, you could sacrifice an old sheet pan.

When the grill is hot, cover it with the pan, baking all of the build up until it can be brushed/scraped of easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Jim 

If the grill is extremely bad, you could sacrifice an old sheet pan.

When the grill is hot, cover it with the pan, baking all of the build up until it can be brushed/scraped of easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMcCracken 

Clean the grill and season it as you would cast iron or a griddle.
 

Both Jim and Pete have it right. As a precautionary mention, I would add to Jim's suggestion to make certain you brush all of the caked on *%#t from the burners, heat diffusers or baffles and remove the drip tray, cleaning all the crusties from out of it. If the grill is in as bad of shape as I am picturing in my head, sounds like no one takes care of the equipment and you can start a fire that will get out of control. Ansul system clean-ups are the worst (been through 4 of them) so keep the small portable extinguisher or a ton of baking soda handy and do this at the end of the night. Also make sure you have your Manager's/Chef's/Owner's permission.  It won't hurt the grill to do this every so often but it will make a huge difference on how well it operates......for the better. Don't do this if your grill uses those useless briquettes, the "pot metal" the rack is made of and briquettes will not take the heat. Maybe a good teardown and clean-up is in order for the grill.

Ironic that before I made the second post the other morning, I just had a conversation about some of this exact stuff with the KM of my Moose Lodge .

Edit below:

As I was driving around today trying to find a flat-top griddle need at a pancake breakfast for 400 this weekend, all of this sort of made it's way into my thoughts. Scarry huh? I guess it was all the used and severly abused equipment I saw that sparked it. As a side note, most of this stuff wasn't a year old and looked like it'd been through 8 months of 100k weeks with out so much as a wipedown!  No wonder these places didn't make it!! Anyhow, all I can say is you can't season carbon and if the grill grates aren't bare metal, no matter how much you oil it won't help. As far as the size of the grill, crowding and cleaning/re-oiling, It can be done. The key is to start the shift with a clean cooking surface. I guess the best way to say it is you wouldn't cook with twice or thrice used saute pans.....would you?

As someone who ALWAYS ended up working grill, whether I was hired for the position or not, I'll throw in my two cents.

If the grill brush and rag don't help then you need a deep clean. My suggestion is this: After service on a slow night finish your regular duties, clock out and then take the thing apart and deep clean it. I mean paint scraper for the grates, degreaser for the drip tray and sides, EVERYTHING. Trust me, it's worth the free labor to have a grill that is clean and works well. There's nothing better than when your grill is performing at top rate and nothing worse than when everything sticks. Plus your chef will appreciate the initiative you take and the dedication you show to your station.

Second. MAKE THE TIME to brush and oil your grill during service. Trust me, its easier to clear one side, brush and oil, then continue service, than to have to remake orders.If your grill is busy and you don't brush and oil, your proteins will stick. No way to get around it. Doesn't matter how well you deep cleaned it, crud build up during service and if you don't brush it isn't going away. Plus thing about how gross it is that the extra crud will be sticking to the proteins you serve.

I truly understand how things can get busy.

My last grill position consisted of:

• swordfish
• Salmon
• Ahi Tuna
• Lobster tail
• Whole two pound Lobster
• Whole 1 1/4 lb lobster
• striped bass (when season was on)
• Rack of Lamb
• NY Strip
• Fillet Mignon
• Chicken Breast
• Burgers
• Veggie Burgers
• Mixed Grill (one U-10 Scallop, half a lobster tail and a fillet medallion)

We averaged 400 covers for dinner and I had a 36in grill. There is always time to oil and brush if you make time. Once you stop your self and force yourself to do it during service it will become a routine. You will do it automatically and wonder how your ever worked the station WITHOUT doing it.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the valued input everyone.

Oldschool, you are completely right, no matter how much I scrub and oil, burnt on carbon will not season! I cant even tell if the rods are stainless steel or cast iron! The carbon crud is so old that when I first started on another station I couldn't tell there was any crud on the rods because it was so uniform and naturally contoured to the rods it blended right in.

IGMCW, I do scrub during service, in small sections, but do not oil. Do you throw everything to one side and scrub/oil or do you do it in small sections? I know I can get it done if you do that many covers on the same size grill! Also on a side note, swordfish, how do you know when it's done? I'm confident doing salmon but sword doesn't give much of any give to the finger test between overcooked and practically raw. Any tips or tricks with this protein?

Quote:

Originally Posted by linecook854 

Thanks for the valued input everyone.

 

Oldschool, you are completely right, no matter how much I scrub and oil, burnt on carbon will not season! I cant even tell if the rods are stainless steel or cast iron! The carbon crud is so old that when I first started on another station I couldn't tell there was any crud on the rods because it was so uniform and naturally contoured to the rods it blended right in.

 

IGMCW, I do scrub during service, in small sections, but do not oil. Do you throw everything to one side and scrub/oil or do you do it in small sections? I know I can get it done if you do that many covers on the same size grill! Also on a side note, swordfish, how do you know when it's done? I'm confident doing salmon but sword doesn't give much of any give to the finger test between overcooked and practically raw. Any tips or tricks with this protein?

linecook854,

I have no doubt, you can nail this down. Believe me! I've run the grill in restaruants operating at $130k a week and 50% of the menu coming off the grill and from what you've said you already possess the first thing needed to get it right, you care!

Do what has been suggested by IGMCW. Tear the dang thing down exactly how it was explained. It will benefit you, your product and the restaurant as a whole. If you get any resistance or lash-back, explain the same things many here have already said and done. It's a win, win for everyone involved and if you need additional help or support, tell the boss to visit us and well set the record straight.  

As far as swordfish, It's a feel and appearance thing. I've found that if the layers of the flesh start to look like a malnourished animals ribs showing through, it's over-done. Firm with a little give but not rubbery.

The steak cuts of seafood should be cooked like steak. Brush clean and oil grill, season fish. Place on grill, cook for 2 minutes and flip....if your not confudent you can turn the cut with a pair of tongs, use a spatchula. Cook two more minutes and flip giving a quarter turn to get cross marks. Cook 2 more minutes and flip the same way again, two minutes and a quarter turn. pull after 2 minutes. Please note that the thickness of the cut will change the amount of time since 2 minutes each turn is for a cut 1 inch thick.

Good luck with this!