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Sujihiki knife advice

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

Hey there!

 

Just wanted to get some thoughts on sujihiki knives.  I'm trying to decide between a Misono Swedish Carbon Steel Sujihiki or a Konosuke hd sujihiki, both would be the 240mm size but the Konosuke is about $50 more so I dunno if it's worth it or not.  Heard alot of great things about both knives so any advice will be great.

post #2 of 18

They're both excellent suji/slicers in every respect, yet very different from one another. 

 

  • The Konosuke is considerably thinner and lighter, and it's thinness gives it a bit of a boost in terms of perceived sharpness. 
  • The Misono is considerably stiffer, and doesn't penalize flaws in your technique as harshly. 
  • The Konosuke is very corrosion resistant for a sem-stainless knife, while the Misono is very reactive for a pure carbon.  They both sharpen easily, hold a good edge and feel good on the stones. 
  • The Misono is better looking, has the dragon, and has a great handle.  

 

 As it happens I have 300mm Konosuke HD wa-suji which I love and use a lot -- half the time instead of my gyuto.  Great knife. 

 

If you're interested in carbon, I think I'd recommend the 270mm Konosuke Shiro wa-suji (wa blade lengths are about 10 - 15mm shorter than yo lengths) as more bang for the buck than the HD, and with all the laser advantages; but I've always been partial to the Misono dragon. 

 

Tough call, but the good news is that you can't go wrong.

 

Good luck,

BDL

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post #3 of 18

I'm also after a slicer/carving knife, I haven't narrowed it to any particular brand although, MCUSTA, Blazen and Masamoto have all taken my interest.  Liked the balance and FF of the UX-10, but not its edge retention so perhaps something that ticks those boxes, but is a laser.

post #4 of 18
I have the 270mm sujihiki by misono, GREAT knife!

I have no issues with it whatsoever.

As for reactivity, green onions have turned my edge purple, very quickly. Acids not so quick.

Rust eraser is your friend with high carbon.
post #5 of 18
I'm also after a slicer/carving knife, I haven't narrowed it to any particular brand although, MCUSTA, Blazen and Masamoto have all taken my interest.  Liked the balance and FF of the UX-10, but not its edge retention so perhaps something that ticks those boxes, but is a laser.

 

A few excellent laser sujis (in alphabetical order):  Gesshin Ginga in White No. 2, or stainless; Konosuke HD (semi-stainless), HH (stainless) or White #2 (carbon); Sakai Yusuke in "extra hard stainless" or White #2; and Ikkanshi Tadatsuna in Inox (G3 stainless) or White #2. 

 

If you like that sort of thing, you might also want to consider a Takeda (san-mai with an AS core).

 

The Gesshins are available through JKI; the Konosukes through CKtG, the Sakai Yusukes through CKtG and Blueway Japan; the Tadatsunas through A-Frames Tokyo (actually located in Hawaii); and the Takedas through CKtG or directly from Takeda in Japan. 

 

I have a 300mm Konosuke HD and recommend it very highly. 

 

Rust eraser is your friend with high carbon.

 

Rust eraser is good stuff, so is baking soda, so are a few other things.  For my carbons I use baking soda on a Scotch Brite everytime I sharpen or whenever I see a stain.  The finish is a dull, silver glow -- just like any well maintained steel tool.  It's not a patina, but not not a patina either. 

 

The term "high carbon" as used here is something of a misnomer. 

 

"Carbon" without any modification refers to alloys which do not qualify as stainless or semi-stainless.  Most of the stain resistant alloys contain at least some chromium.  By definition "stainless steel" must contain at least 13% chromium. 

 

"High carbon" is steel industry jargon referring to any steel alloy, whether stainless, semi-stainless or "carbon," with at least 0.50% carbon by weight; or, in Germany, with at least 0.45% carbon by weight. 

 

BDL

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post #6 of 18
I couldn't imagine a knife thinner than a misono Swedish....

Only knife I have thinner is a cheap caddie slicer.

I actually want something thicker than a misono for tougher things.

But, like people said those are 2 very good choices of suji.
post #7 of 18
What do you mean by tougher? The Misono Swedish isn't fragile. Or do you prefer some more weight?
post #8 of 18
Haha sorry I'm terrible with wording, by tougher I mean thick vegetables.

I have an old wusthof Driezack at home and love the thickness but HATE the bolster.

I think if there was a knife between wusthof and Japanese thickness, with Japanese/French geometry I'd be happy.
post #9 of 18
What happens exactly when you attack thick vegetables with your Misono? Wedging? Loose your grip. Have you tried a light weight Wüsthof? The Cordon Bleu series? French carbons, like K-Sabatier?
post #10 of 18
It tends to wedge, I'll try loosening the grip. But I do prefer the one time slice motion by habit. Trying to learn more proper cut/chop techniques as I've only sliced at work.

If it has a bolster I won't want it, but I'll definitely check them out!
post #11 of 18
Could it be you've put a symmetric edge on your Misono? Another, very amateur suggestion: before slicing, make the inverse movement with no weight, and follow that path when actually cutting. Let the knife decide the cut.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardedCrow View Post

Haha sorry I'm terrible with wording, by tougher I mean thick vegetables.
I have an old wusthof Driezack at home and love the thickness but HATE the bolster.
I think if there was a knife between wusthof and Japanese thickness, with Japanese/French geometry I'd be happy.


Richmond Ultimatum wa-gyuto.  Thickness is identical to Sabatier carbons, profile is identical to Sabatier chef's knives.  So, it's robust without quite falling into the "mighty" class."  The blade is heavily convexed on the right side and not at all on the left -- making the knife right handed unless you have very good left-handed skills.  Speaking of convexity the blade geometry is complex and laid in by hand resulting in some tool marks; but they're only a problem in terms of cosmetics.  Right-handedness and cosmetics are the only two drawbacks I've been able to identify so far. 

 

I've been going back and forth between light and heavy tasks such as breaking poultry and dicing garnish with my carbon (52100) Ultimatum and am liking it quite a bit.  It's better for the fine tasks than my other two heavies -- a 12" K-Sab au carbone chef's and a 10" Forschner Cimiter; and goes places my Konosuke HD gyuto wouldn't dare.  It's a lot like my 10" K-Sab au carbone. 

 

The Ultimatum is only available from Mark (Richmond) at CKtG. 

 

I know Jon at JKI has some good medium/heavy-weight knives. 

 

Unless you keep several chef's/gyutos in your rotation, before buying a "mighty" or near-mighty gyuto you want to ask yourself if you'd be happy with something very light and agile for most of your cutting + something heavy when you need it; or whether you'd rather have one gyuto for everything.  With the Ultimatum, I've got three "go-to gyutos" -- four if you count the suji I frequently use as a gyuto -- not to mention a few heavy-duty choices, so I operate as much by whim as by logic.

 

BDL

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post #13 of 18
Bearded Crow, you love the Wustoff but hate the bolster? Have you tried a Messermeister? German knife with no bolster, 15 degree angle. I still take one out from time to time.
post #14 of 18
I actually have one!

It's too heavy! I like the weight of the wusthof basically.

But seriously I LOVE ky misono suji, considering a konosuke suji now
post #15 of 18
I remember the trident and the Messermeister both being around the same weight, 9 to 10 oz., both pretty heavy when compared to more delicate Japanese knives. The misono is a lovely knife, I'm sure you'll love the konsuke. I like switching up my daily stuff. Good luck
post #16 of 18
If the Messermeister have the same geometry as the Burgvogel in Europe, you should know that they are relatively thick behind the edge, and heavy, accordingly. Convex grinding, excepted for the very edge, which is a straight V. Has all to do with production costs. I would prefer a thin blade and a convexed edge.
But a part of their home market require 'tough' blades.
Edited by Benuser - 1/5/13 at 3:32pm
post #17 of 18
Yeah the one I have is very heavy, and by looking at it has about 3 bevels on one side, I'm not even sure why I have it and how it's in my kitchen (think it was here when I moved here) as it's as dull as a ruler and as heavy as a hammer, I actually use it to heavy duty banging haha!

I have to say I prefer using my suji over my yanagi's.

If I could only take ONE knife to a deserted island it would be a misono ux10 suji (think salt on an island).
post #18 of 18
On their site they proudly mention the use of all kinds of automate grinders. Well, they are considerably less expensive than the Wüsthof and Zwilling, and use the same steel by Krupp.
It's a part of a culture where people are used to rocking motions from the shoulder with a lot of upper body weight.
Very different from the French tradition where the first rule is: I don't want to hear you cutting.
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