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I am SO BUMMED!

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

Man, after reading that stupid <expletive> anothony bourdain book, i almost feel like i shouldn't even pursue my dreams of becoming a small restaurant owner. Jesus! That guy is so freaking negative. What is his deal? I am 30 and looking to start some kind of culinary school or classes, not to become a head chef, but rather so i know what the hell is going on in the kitchen. plus i love cooking. Anothony basically says "hey, if youre over 30 and you want to cook, forget about it, youll be lucky to find a job at tgifridays"! what in the <expletive> kind of advice is that to give young, hungry aspiring chefs? I think the dude is funny, but man...<expletive> up.

 

anyways had to vent!

 

wes

post #2 of 20

Unfortunately, he's not all so much wrong. Sorry. 

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
BS. Ive met more than a fair share of chefs who got a start later on life. I just think its sad for people who domt know people on tbe inside giving tbem no sense of hope. Chefs need to get over themsrlves. Youre cooking, nothing more, nothing less.passion prevails.
post #4 of 20

Hey, relax dude.  Anthony Bourdain doesn't know you (or anybody that he doesn't already know).  He's an insightful guy, and a lot of what he says is the truth based on his life, his experiences and his viewpoints.

You're gonna let somebody who doesn't know you bring you down like that?  When he says that line about being over 30, that's probably true upwards of 98% of the time - and it's a true enough statement for him to have made based on HIS observations and experiences.  Why can't you be part of the 2% that makes it big?  Besides, you stated your main purpose as gaining knowledge and a bit of experience so you're not a clueless fumbling owner (paraphrasing).  Chances are you're part of the 98%, but it doesn't matter anyways since you've got the money to hire a professional chef to work for you.

 

With all that said, anybody who's considering a career as a chef and is turned off from it because of Anthony Bourdain's book/books...They've proven that they obviously don't belong in this field.  Books like his are supposed to be thought-provoking, which is good since too many idealistic people dont' think before "deciding" to become a chef and enrolling in culinary school.  But somebody who's passionate and realistic, and has gathered and considered as much information as possible; and they rationally decide to go through the process of becoming a cook with the purpose of building up to being a chef, then kudos to them.

 

Passion will only take you so far.  Passion doesn't guarantee anything.  But it certainly is a necessary component to be successful in this field.  Good luck to you, and to any young, passionate and hungry aspiring "chefs" in the making. 

post #5 of 20

WesAaron,

 

Take another look, chefs do far more than cook.

 

From my experience, a majority of successful chefs rarely spend time on the line cooking.

 

With regards to age, there are exceptions but most successful line cooks are young and have far more stamina than the older cooks, IMHO.

 

Remember, roughly, for every two prep cooks, there's one line cook, for every three line cooks there is one station chef, for every five to seven station chefs, there's one Sous Chef, and for every two or three Sous Chefs, there's one Chef.

 

Just like the military, one gets promoted only if there is a slot open and the competition gets more intense the higher one achieves.

 

Just for kicks, trace the path of a passionate newcomer starting as a prep cook at 20 years old:

  • One to two years as prep cook - 21-22
  • Half of the prep cooks get promoted to Line cook, One to five years as line cook - 22-27, average 25
  • One out of three line cooks get promoted to Station Chef, Two to six years as Station Chef, 24-33, average 29
  • One out of three station Chefs get promoted to Sous Chef, Four to ten years as Sous Chef, 28-43, average 35
  • One out of two Sous Chefs get promoted to Chef at age 28-43, average 35

 

Start the above when you're 30 and, if your lucky and get every promotion on average time, you'll be the 2-3% that gets promoted to Chef at 45. Of course, those 35 others that started with you are still after your job and they're only 35!

 

P.S. The odds of being promoted are inversely proportional to the level of vulgarity utilized once you reach line cook status, both Bourdain and Ramsay are not good models to emulate if you desire to be promoted.

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
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Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #6 of 20

Oh ... I don't know ...

 

700     

Gordon Ramsay: Biography of Kitchen Nightmares Chef

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply
post #7 of 20

Do you have a point?

post #8 of 20

Examples can never prove a premise, only disprove one, as in the old saying "the exception proves the rule" crazy.gif
 

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
Reply
post #9 of 20

Gordon Ramsey was relatively young when he started working in the food industry.  So...not following the illogic at all.

post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
God you guys are so depressing. Well, my dad started srlling cars at 32, ended up gsm and gm at newport auto center at 40, then owning beverly hils porsche at 45 and retiring at 52. And all the dudes in tbe car business told him not to get involved. Now hes in az, oens an assisted living facility for shts and giggles and plays golf all day. Take that for what its worth. Desire.
post #11 of 20

You're coming off sounding more and more like a troll.

post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
A troll? Hmmmm. Okay.
post #13 of 20

Please, don't make a type of mistake comparing auto sales with culinary arts. There is not much similarity, unless all you're looking at is work ethic. "Sales" is a totally different type of skill than "Culinary Art"

 

As for the wisecrack question of "if I have a point" ... Yes, I do.   I don't care if you meant it flippantly as a wisecrack or not, I took the "tone" of it as if you did, 

 

In response to this statement: "...  both Bourdain and Ramsay are not good models to emulate if you desire to be promoted.", I replied with the GR biography video.  Did you at least watch it?  He's had one heck of a career so far.  Rather successful you'd have to agree.  I think emulating the earliest part of his career would be a very good thing.  That's my point. 

 

Now since we're all speaking frankly here, in regards to the OP ... you don't have any kind of clue what you are getting yourself into starting in culinary school at 30-yo. It would be a better bet if you are not married, and hopefully not with small children.  If that's not the case, I hope your spouse makes very good money, because you'll all starve on what you're looking at for +/- the next 6-8 years. Culinary school is rather expensive, and very time-intensive.  Unless your father owns the first restaurant you work at, you're looking at +/- $8-$12 / hr. Good luck living with a family on that.  I'm not at all telling you not to do it. I myself am 50-yo, and I've been ITB since I was 12-yo. I think it's really kinda cool that you have an interest.  Just go into it with your eyes open, and don't make any rash opinions of people before you know where they are speaking from.  I don't have any big opinions of Anthony B. I actually think he only found a golden TV-show goose.  He does not impress me all that much.  I do however respect where he's come from, and what he does with what he's got now. If you're going on the ideals of "... so i know what the hell is going on in the kitchen. plus i love cooking.", I suggest you keep your day job and just find some Community College classes to serve your purposes.  The professional world will (NO pun intended) eat you up and spit you out. It won't be pretty.

 

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

Reply
post #14 of 20

Every answer that everyone has made here has many valid points. But be advised none of them have anything to do with selling cars. Different ball game. As far as you starting a culinary school as they say in NY "'Forgetabout it''. I believe you are infatuated by chefs and the better part of the food industry. Anthony and his book arre correct in many ways, thats just the way it is and the nature of the beast. I suggest you follow your dads footsteps and sell cars. Reality can't be altered. Good luck to you

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Reply

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Reply
post #15 of 20

Don't worry there is a lot of douche bags in cooking, some lecturers in the college i'm studying at tried to tell me catering isn't for me and i should go for something else when i actually like cooking, nobody can tell you what you want to do especially not a dude that thinks he can write a book telling someone over 30 that they can't do it lol, don't listen to anyone else because if you like cooking then that is all that matters, you like it and that guy whoever he is (never heared of such a chef before lol) is obviously turned too big for his own shoes to care he's trying to push someone else down, don't take it as a negative thing because no matter what you do there will always be someone trying to say it's not for you as they can't see past their own views and self absored head, they just need to learn that other people are good at different things and they are good at cooking just like them, he's basicly trying to say nobody over 30 is good at cooking as he thinks he's the bee's knees and everyone else is terrible cooks, everyone all has different ways of doing things and in a world where everyone tries to make you fall into some sort of set of rules and policies in pretty much every single company it for sure is very frustrating, they always try and make 1 size fit all all the time but that's just not how it works, i would actually like to see a company that follows the same set of food hygiene but lets people cook the way they want to cook not how their boss wants them to, i mean how many places are you gonna go to where the head chef tries to change how you cook a certain thing just because that's their way of doing things? it's just not right at all, just focus on what  your doing nevermind what anyone else says because you will let others slow you down by paying attention to what they say, it's just not a battle you can win with anyone and i wish they would realize they can't change people ether, just remember your doing what your good at and nobody can question that.

post #16 of 20

Oh and yeh... even if i am new to this site it's nice to see so many negative people... not :\ lol, be happy for people and encourage them not push them down even more, treat others how you wanna be treated not push them down so it will give you a better change instead.

post #17 of 20

First correction I'd like to make to the OP is that cooks do the cooking, chefs make sure the shxx gets done. If you think all there is to being a chef is sitting on a line and cooking, then please keep your culinary experience limited to reading books.

 

Secondly, I'm not sure that anyone is being negative, there has been a fair amount of positive and negative feed back given throughout these posts, I just think it's easier to pick out the negative.

 

Thirdly, if "cooking" is so easy, hop in the kitchen and get to work homey. Having passion is important, but it should be the fuel that drives the fire, not the fire itself. You have to work your a$$ off and keep your head up to get places in the kitchen, not everyone is chef material, some people  are destined to be 20 yr long fry side guys, and props to them because they deserve it, but.. with the popularity of reality cooking shows in the last few years, everyone who has ever patted out a burger thinks they can be a chef without putting in the work. Tsk tsk.

 

Also, Most of the guys (not me) who are replying to your posts, if you read their bio's, they have 10-20+ years of experience in the field that you are so "passionate" about, it would be wise to listen to what they say.

post #18 of 20

I am not quite sure why, but this thread cracked me up! OP, you sound like your jimmies are a little rustled. You also sound pretty disconnected from the industry you are so passionate about.

 

Bourdain certainly has a knack for the vernacular, and can embellish on things, BUT for a large part, he is pretty spot on, and creates an accurate representation of what the industry is like. . . unlike the Food network, that makes Cheffing so "glamorous"/easy/and leads young kids who want to be Chefs think "make some food, collect a paycheck", lol.

 

Telling Chefs to get over themselves ALSO just re-enforces your understanding of the field you are so passionate about. To be a Chef, is to be an athlete of sorts, and the EGOS get HUGE, lol. While I cook for my clients, and only cook for my ego at home these days, the industry wouldn't be what it was if Chefs "got over themselves", and just "Cooked, nothing more, nothing less". 

 

Are we saving lives? No. Is it rocket science? No. is it quantum physics? No. BUT, YOU HAVE TO KNOW SOMETHING. I wouldn't want to imagine a Culinary world where Chefs were over themselves, and didn't push to be the best, to innovate new techniques and takes on cuisine, how it is interpreted and enjoyed. While I am not personally into a world of molecular gastronomy, I am certainly glad there are Chefs who didn't get over themselves, like Adria, Dufresne, Cantu(just to name but a few), or even Chefs who have revitalized American cuisine with fundamental and traditional techniques. Chefs like Keller, Trotter, O'Connell, and can make something as simple as salt, or an egg sandwich be something more akin to a zen a zen experience.

 

Keep reading, or get to a kitchen and discover the reality yourself. Until you DO get in there, get in the weeds, and see what it is all like, I would keep some of your opinions to yourself for the time being.

 

just my $.02

~If you are what you eat, I am cheap, fast, and easy.

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~If you are what you eat, I am cheap, fast, and easy.

Reply
post #19 of 20

If you drink or do drugs or have some mental defect this is the job for you, don't let them kid you.

post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesaaron View Post

BS. Ive met more than a fair share of chefs who got a start later on life. I just think its sad for people who domt know people on tbe inside giving tbem no sense of hope. Chefs need to get over themsrlves. Youre cooking, nothing more, nothing less.passion prevails.

How is he giving you no sense of hope?

You are choosing to take that attitude based on his comments, he is not brainwashing you.

Or are you that easily manipulated?

If his words cause someone to rethink and ultimately choose another profession, good, they don't have the backbone for it.

If his words cause someone to get an "I'll show him" attitude, then great, that person has the passion  required.

Your last sentence says more about you than anything else you've said.

You condemn AB for making a blanket statement, then do so yourself, diminishing what we do.

Hyprocritical at best.

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
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