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pot roast left out overnight - safe to reheat and eat?

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 

so we were following a suggestion by alton brown that you make a pot roast the night before, let it cool, and reheat it for dinner the next day. the thought being that heating, cooling, and then reheating the meat makes the connective tissue break down better and leads to a better tasting, more tender roast.

 

so, after cooking the roast in my enameled dutch oven with guinness and veal stock (along with assorted veg), i left it on the stove top to cool so it could be refrigerated. obviously an iron dutch oven takes a while to cool. and, sure enough, i forgot about the bloody thing and went to bed.

 

this morning, i put the whole thing in the fridge. so that was about 10 hours out of the oven (7 or 8 hours at 140 degrees or below, i'd guess).

 

it smells fine (good, actually). i realize that reheating it will kill bacteria but not certain toxins that may have been left by the bacteria.

 

i would be curious as to any advice regarding the safety of this meal.

post #2 of 36

so sorry, wish i had better news, but sadly i think you gotta feed it to the gargae disposal, not your family. you may not get sick, but then again you may. if you don't get sick, it's only because you lucked out somehow. as you probably know you need to keep food hot(140+) or cold(- 40)...anything in between is spawning ground for some very nasty things( you've got about 2 hours mol before you need to do something).....in the future i would not wait for the pot to cool down(especially a cast iron or enameled one). take the stew out of the pot, put into smaller containers and refrigerate uncovered. sticking a metal spoon(large) or whisk can help bring the temp down faster and stirring every so often helps as well, if you are in a time crunch. leave the spoon or whisk in the stew overnight in the fridge.....bottom line as you now well know is that you should have made it earlier in the day...

joey


Edited by durangojo - 9/23/12 at 11:11am

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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post #3 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by bscepter View Post

so we were following a suggestion by alton brown that you make a pot roast the night before, let it cool, and reheat it for dinner the next day. the thought being that heating, cooling, and then reheating the meat makes the connective tissue break down better and leads to a better tasting, more tender roast.

 

so, after cooking the roast in my enameled dutch oven with guinness and veal stock (along with assorted veg), i left it on the stove top to cool so it could be refrigerated. obviously an iron dutch oven takes a while to cool. and, sure enough, i forgot about the bloody thing and went to bed.

 

this morning, i put the whole thing in the fridge. so that was about 10 hours out of the oven (7 or 8 hours at 140 degrees or below, i'd guess).

 

it smells fine (good, actually). i realize that reheating it will kill bacteria but not certain toxins that may have been left by the bacteria.

 

i would be curious as to any advice regarding the safety of this meal.

 I've done this so many times I cant count, to think that a pro chef would forget to put something in the fridge. I can only tell you what I did though. I didn't have the heart to through it out and I really hate to waste food. I reheated it to 350 for about an hour. The reason is that your body is used to your particular  habits of eating, that is why most poeple get sick in retaraunts because they have strict foodservice habits, I will say that most of the sickness is from chemical sickness because they use chemicals that the average person can't get.

post #4 of 36

When in doubt, throw it out!

 

Further, no amount of reheating will make food wholesome which has been rendered dangerous by any number of bacteria.  I understand the reasoning, but it's wrong as a matter of science and culinary technique. 

 

THROW IT OUT!!!

 

BDL

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What were we talking about?
 
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post #5 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekonball View Post

 I've done this so many times I cant count, to think that a pro chef would forget to put something in the fridge.

 

actually, that a pro chefs thinking that reheating food left out was okay in the first place is even more amazing......i can only hope that you didn't serve it to customers....shame on you chef.... i also disagree that most food borne illnesses are from chemicals.....most come from bacteria...salmonella, listeria, staph and e. coli are just a few that come to mind...just one of the reasons why they are called food borne illnesses....

joey


Edited by durangojo - 9/24/12 at 8:54am

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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post #6 of 36

Maybe BDL and I are from old school but I would not serve it and I know he wouldn't either. Hot out at room temp over 4 hours then chilling it hours later? You are looking fro trouble. and you may get it...........again  "IF IN DOUBT<THROW IT OUT""

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #7 of 36

Do you throw out milk on the expiration date, every time?  Probably not.  Ever go to a hole in the wall Indian or Mexican joint and order the cabeza or tongue?  I do.  If we all adhered to the rules of the health department and what we "should do" we'd never have any fun with food.  In California the DOH has lowered the temperature danger zone from 145 F to 140F.  Is it only now that the 5 degrees makes a difference to our health?  I say go ahead and eat it up.  People these days often freak out about this kind of stuff, but I personally don't.  Perhaps its the fact that I've only been sick from eating bad food maybe once or twice in my 30 years of living and 12 years of cooking.  I'll eat nearly anything.  Perhaps the other members of this site think I'm asking for trouble and am ethically wrong, but in an at home situation, I'd give it a try.  I would definitely NOT serve in my restaurant, but at home, why not.  

 

My only advice is to not keep anything that has been reheated.  Say you reheat half of the roast and only eat half of that, throw the reheated half out.

post #8 of 36

Please let me know where you work Cacio & Rekenball.

I'll make sure to never,ever eat there.

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post #9 of 36
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Cacioepepe you are "amazing"
family or customer or myself is completely same ... If its not god for me is not good for anybody ...
If in doubt throw it out like chefdb say ... Don't take the risk of killing somebody ...
post #10 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacioEpepe View Post

 I would definitely NOT serve in my restaurant, but at home, why not.

You should read my post all the way through before making yours.
post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoko Verona View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Cacioepepe you are "amazing"
family or customer or myself is completely same ... If its not god for me is not good for anybody ...
If in doubt throw it out like chefdb say ... Don't take the risk of killing somebody ...

Killing somebody? Really? Because that's happened often. If you folks would read my post my explanation is that I've probably eaten things that I shouldn't have and, I'm still, gasp, alive! I would take the hhhuuuggee risk of eating some roast. Would I do that at my work? Like I've stated twice, no, I wouldn't. I guess ya'll think I'm stupid, and I think yall could get over this irrational fear.
post #12 of 36

Psst! I believe you will find the California HHS (not DOH) has lowered the holding temperature to 135°F

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacioEpepe View Post

...  In California the DOH has lowered the temperature danger zone from 145 F to 140F.  ..

However, the four hour rule, and in special cases the six hour rule, are still in effect for PHF!

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
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Chef,
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post #13 of 36

I READ YOUR POST ! 

     And if you want to eat it, thats your choice or problem , but to feed it to your family or home thats another story.. You did not get sick  THIS TIME however its like playing Russian Roulette sometime you lose.

Children and older adults in the home or outside ar particulary affected by Salmonella and Toxins which are found in spoiled food do to no proper refrigeration and partly do to the fact that their systems are weaker then healthy adults. He is talking way more then the 4 hour rule out of fridge, your talking 7 or 8  if  read his post. 

  And no I do not throw out milk at the experation date because it has been held at proper temps, plus experation date is only meant in 98% of states to mean  it is last day for retail sale not consumption. So understand health and consummer laws before making a statement.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #14 of 36

I remember being invited to a Canadian Thanksgiving dinner and after dinner the food that didn't fit in the fridge was wrapped up and left on the kitchen table all night.

I watched family picking from the platters on the counter the next morning and thought how wrong it was.

They, of course, had been doing this way for many many years.

post #15 of 36

OK Chef ,  But it was their choice and not someone elses. And was not pawned off on some unsuspecting person.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #16 of 36
Original pot-au-feu, was simmered for days and days while new stuff, meat, leftovers, veggies, etc. were added to the pot. 
There's also a spiced Chinese master sauce, called Lu Shui or Lo Shui that lasts a long time, sometimes years and passes from one generation to the next. You braise something there, beef, pork, duck, chicken, etc.,(except fish) then you add some water, soy sauce, spices, let it boil 10' and save. A layer of grease usually protects the dark sauce. Also in many Asian cultures, commercial broths are kept years for enhanced flavors, but always simmering.
I've done the 6 hours beef stew, reheating the next day. Much better next day! I just let it cool down, let's say, one hour and there it goes to the fridge. 
I wonder how is it possible people were not poisoned in the old times, but of course if you're running a restaurant, well that's a different matter of concern.
Gebbe Got uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichen und schönen Tod. Joseph Roth.
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Gebbe Got uns allen, uns Trinkern, einen so leichen und schönen Tod. Joseph Roth.
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post #17 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by ordo View Post

Original pot-au-feu, was simmered for days and days while new stuff, meat, leftovers, veggies, etc. were added to the pot. 

 

Simmering temperature is not in the danger zone. That's also why restaurant hold sauces in bain maries at temps above the danger zone. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ordo View Post

I wonder how is it possible people were not poisoned in the old times

 

Actually people got food poising quite a lot in old times... but also I believe their stomachs were probably more equipped to handle it as we are now. 

post #18 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by ordo View Post

...I wonder how is it possible people were not poisoned in the old times,...

Probably because they died???crazy.gif

Chef,
Specialties: MasterCook/RecipeFox; Culinary logistics; Personal Chef; Small restaurant owner; Caterer
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Chef,
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post #19 of 36

My friends leave food out all the time. I won't eat leftovers over there confused.gif (we need a barf icon!)

post #20 of 36

brings to mind the famous duck confit of yore.... as a way to preserve and because there was no refrigeration it was left sitting in the duck fat it was cooked in......for how long? days? weeks?....guess they didn't have them or chose not to pay attention to temperatures ...maybe that's just one more reason why the wealthy had tasters...they were expendable!

joey


Edited by durangojo - 9/24/12 at 3:15pm

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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post #21 of 36

Back in the early and mid 1900s  .If someone died in the neigborhood, it was usually said "They died of old age" I remember if someone died of TB, the fire dept came and sealed the apartment and lit sulphur candles that they said  killed the residue germs.

     Modern medicine and science finally figured out that this was no so. They died of  a specific ailment  , like cancer or heart disease,etc.  but we did not know then. Today we do. 

     Many people had food poisoning but thought it only a bad stomach or something else.'' We have come a long way baby ''as the commercial used to say.

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #22 of 36

I think that in terms of food, it is better to be safe than sorry. However, our immune system is also an adaptive system. Without any exposure to such bacteria we are likely susceptible to very small amounts for infection. This is true of viruses as well with there being some exceptions (HIV). I'm not saying we should intentionally acquire resistance through exposure, but I am saying that there is truth to that principal and sometimes people over react and cause more harm than good .. such as use of anti-bacterial soaps on a daily basis.

post #23 of 36

Why wait hours for a cooking vessel to cool down enough to stick it in the fridge?

That's what bowls are for.

post #24 of 36

bscepter,

it's been 2 days now sooo what did you do? 

my money's on you ate it......tsk tsk

hope you're all okay

maybe not enough time has passed after you ate it...i think its something like 12 to 72 hours after ingesting that symptoms appear

 

 

joey


Edited by durangojo - 9/25/12 at 10:20am

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryB View Post

My friends leave food out all the time. I won't eat leftovers over there confused.gif (we need a barf icon!)

My wife tends to do the same thing.  Some say that most marriages break up over money or infidelity.  In our case the only reason we would break up is over food hygiene.  thumb.gif

post #26 of 36
Was there a tight lid on the pot? Once you have cooked away the internal bacteria, unless you have Typhoid or something in your house I doubt you would have life threatening organisms in the air that would attack your meat. Especially if you used a tight lid. Not so in a restaurant, being a public place. No wonder many of you squeamish posters would get sick and die from a bug bite , you have probably grew up in a sterile bubble and have no immune system. Haven't you ever shared food with another person or drank from the same bottle? Ever go camping and ate the fish you caught, or drank bug juice at camp? You probably make your toddler wear a helmet on Playschool toys so he/she won't die of carpet burn infections when they fall 8 inches to that filthy floor. Unbelievable. I would eat that meat -- all of it if I cooked it.
post #27 of 36

boy are you ever off base itsonlytstuffing....organisms in the air attacking your meat...... are you kidding? using a tight fitting lid....are you kidding?  that's not how food borne illnesses happen....confused.gif

 

joey

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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post #28 of 36

Have you  heard of Chi Chi's?  People do die of food poisioning. Treating food  seriously for professionals is the most important thing we can do, people trust us to serve them safe food, and it our duty to do just that.Crap like not cooling properly, holding hot food at improper  temps, bad sanitation, 3second rules, and screwing around with peoples food is what has keep us professional chefs at the bottom of the social barrel until recently for a long time. At home we and home cooks should be just a cafeful as to not posion their families or themselvs.

post #29 of 36

Be it home or food service facility you handle food sanitation same way.. If you want to eat that crap then you eat it, Its your health and body. Why not put a lid on everything so it kills the bacteria? ARE YOU FOR REAL OR WHAT? and no one said life threatening just SICK.

Oh sorry I see it's only your first post..

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

Reply
post #30 of 36

thought i'd share a few not so fun foodborne illness facts...from a servsafe food sanitation manual and cdc website

 

listerosis: in pregnant women this foodborne illness can cause miscarriage,a stillborn child, retardation, meningitis, and death in newborns. high fatality rate in the immuno compromised

e.coli: in children can lead to a disorder that cause the kidneys and other organs to stop working.

botulism: it attacks the nervous system. can cause vertigo, double vision, the  inability to swallow and respiratory paralysis. can last a year.

shigella: also called bacillary dysentary. need i say more?

salmonellosis: each year 48 million people in the U.S experience this foodborne illness. 3,000 die.

 

so, where is all this leading?  once again, when in doubt, throw it out!......

 

joey

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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