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pot roast left out overnight - safe to reheat and eat? - Page 2

post #31 of 60

Better safe than sorry ~
 

post #32 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodnfoto View Post

Please let me know where you work Cacio & Rekenball.

I'll make sure to never,ever eat there.

 If you read closely you would have read about what I personally did. I never said for this person to eat rotten meat, I know what my bodies immune system is capable of, and have never been sick by my actions and  of course this was in my own kitchen.  I voted not to serve the lobster bisque at work, also one of the reasons we have wonderfull sauces today is to cover up rotten meat, pre refridgeration days You all are way too uptight and I wouldn't have shared my story if I puked up my stomach. I'll make sure to never, ever serve you OK. I would like to know if the food was eaten or not.

post #33 of 60

This is a great thread, and because of it I've taken a survey of my staff and of the cooks that I've worked with in the past.  These are legit cooks who have worked in legit restaurants all over.  I have to disclaim this because its obvious that my 'credibility' on this site has been compromised. Everyone probably thinks I work with a bunch of hacks who bring their mise en place into the bathroom and wash it in the toilet.  On the contrary, I'm confident enough to say that I've probably worked in cleaner, tighter, more disciplined restaurants than most.  The fact that my opinion stated, god forbid, I would eat something that didn't comply with the US health standard, has made such waves really makes me laugh.   I would say that about 85% of the people I've presented this situation to would be fine with eating this legendary pot roast.  Granted, yes, there is the factor of common sense, which I did not mention (my bad).  If it was bubbling, sour, smelled bad or had mold on it it, by all mean, toss it.  But if the integrity of the roast is still intact, I dont think its out of the question.  A risk?  Of course...but we do that by going out to eat anyway.  I also understand the idea of being overprotective of a bscepter, who is 'only' a home cook, and hell, he probably doesnt know any better anyways.  I also understand that as professionals we have to convey that everything done behind closed kitchen doors is without question, questionable.  I understand putting on that holier than thou face in the presence of 'civilians', but damn, I'm just saying I eat the friggin roast!

post #34 of 60

  DURANGOJO

 

All of the above conditions you listed  are real

It should also be noted that senior citizens as well as children are in high risk brackets as well as any one with a weakeened immune system from past illnesses. IE  Viral infection, Mersa etc.. So again any of you, please  don't tell all the people on this site (in particular students)  how wonderful you were because you served or ate something that  was left out or compromised.

YOUR FLIRTING WITH DISASTER>

Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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Chef EdB
Over 50 years in food service business 35 as Ex Chef. Specializing in Volume upscale Catering both on and off premise .(former Exec. Chef in the largest on premise caterer in US  with 17 Million Dollars per year annual volume). 
      Well versed in all facets of Continental Cuisine...

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post #35 of 60

Redacted bounce.gif

post #36 of 60

cacio,

i don't think anyone here is questioning your credibility nor has it been compromised in any way. we are simply having a discussion with very divided opinions.

i will add this though....the trickster about micro- organisms is that you cannot see them, taste them or smell them. once they are ingested and are in the intestines they multiple like little rabbits as the intestinal tract is the perfect breeding ground.....think of it as an incubator....warm and moist... something else that occurs is on the reheat the stew passes through the danger zone yet again. if the reheat is slow which most times for stew it is, your food and you are at risk once again.....that just can't be worth it. if you have ever had a foodborne illness there would never be a doubt as to what to do. our immune systems are attacked and challenged every day with the air we breathe and the water we drink.....do we really need to challenge it through our food?

joey

food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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food is like love...it should be entered into with abandon or not at all        Harriet Van Horne

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post #37 of 60


I live in a small house in Michigan and keep the temp in my house at about 68 so I know it's not remotely "warm" on my kitchen counters overnight.

If I didn't go to sleep and leave a roast out.  The crockpot was actually cool to touch.  Okay to refrigerate and eat still after re-heating? 

post #38 of 60

It's not worth the risk. It can be dangerous even if it smells, looks and tastes fine. It's not just about which bacteria may be growing in it, but their by products which are often dangerous in their own right. 

 

Toss it. 

Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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Palace of the Brine -- "I hear the droning in the shrine of the sea monkeys." Saltair
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post #39 of 60
I have had "food poisoning" twice (that I am aware of anyway).
Once was a fruit salad with a poppy seed dressing (only dish I ate from a salad potluck at a business meeting) .
It hit me 2 hours into my car ride from San Antonio to my home in Dallas.
Luckily I was not the driver.
The usual 5 hour drive took twice that long because of all the pit stops.

The second was from a to go plate (BBQ chicken) from a family reunion.
I stuck the container in an ice chest where it stayed for the 2 hour drive to my beach house.
My vaca's were few and far between back then and half of that precious time was spent either in bed or the bathroom.
I had a evening ritual .....enjoyed watching the sunset with gin and tonic in hand.
Thank the Lord one of the neighbors noticed my absence and came to check on me.
He carried me to his car and took me to the ER.
After 2 liters of IV fluids and some meds to stop the trips to the bathroom the neighbor brought me home and tucked me in.

The chicken I should have known better to eat.
The salad was a complete surprise.

Since those incidents I have tossed out a lot of food.
Prolly some that was perfectly good.
I don't even bring home uneaten food from restaurants.
Just not worth it.

mimi
post #40 of 60

What I occasionally do and what I advise others to do sometimes differ a bit, sometimes not. 

This  was a cooked meat product, not a stew or Stroganof or parmesana type dish with a low Ph, and it sat

out for what 8 hours? My advice is to look in the mirror, shake a finger at your reflection and say

"You dumb-dumb", AFTER you've tossed the thing in the garbage.

post #41 of 60

Bacteria likes warm, moist protein which is one reason why humans get sick. We are warm, moist protein. Your call, but to me a roast left out overnight seems like a perfect petri dish of warm, moist protein.

Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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post #42 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheflayne View Post
 

Bacteria likes warm, moist protein

... and oxygen.

post #43 of 60

Clostridium perfringens is anaerobic and one of the most common causes of food poisoning, with beef being one of the common sources.

Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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post #44 of 60

But that's the point, I would imagine this roast was getting plenty of air. Doesn't Clostridium flourish in an airless environment,

say between 70 and 120 degreesF?

Been a while and I dont feel like looking it up. :o 

post #45 of 60

It survives and even grows just fine in the presence of oxygen but it flourishes and produces the toxins in an environment of little to no air like your gastrointestinal system.

Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
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post #46 of 60

This has been one area where while I can agree with the adage of .. "when in doubt, throw it out" if you know what you are dealing with you can also safely re-heat a product to the point of pasteurization. A stew is a great candidate for this, since it won't likely suffer much from the added high heat application.

 

The toxin of clostridium botulinum can be destroyed after 10 minutes of boiling the product.

 

If we want to discuss food safety, then we ought to include the acceptable treatments for foods. It's good to be cautious, but we need to be educated about things as well.

post #47 of 60
@WithaneCook

Danger zone is 40- 140F.

68F is right in the middle of the " zone".


It is Time Sensitive. We are missing the time in your question. When in doubt don't cool food on the counter.
post #48 of 60

Going back to the OP of several years ago, he recounted how Alton Brown says a pot roast is better the next day. I have found this to be true of an ordinary stew, but not for a pot roast cooked as one large contiguous piece.  The Wonderous moist gelatinous quality of a properly cooked Pot/chuck roast, the best part of such a dish imo,  is lost the next day out of the fridge in my experience.

 

As to the bacteria thing, I and many I know leave things out over night, covered of course to protect from vermin, with absolutely no ill effect.  It was quite a common practice some 50 years ago anyway.  Especially if the pot remained covered there is no great risk, contamination will be minimal and bacteria can only multiply so quickly.  The Swans-neck flask experiment is a classic example of this.  Back in the 17 or 1800's (forget which now) it was proven that bacteria contamination was in fact air born and not spontaneously generated by the swans-neck flask experiment, in which a specially constructed but otherwise open-to-air flask held a heat sterilized sample of urine for years with no apparent bacteria growth.  Look it up.

 

Also considering that there is considerable salt and spices in a typical stew that are the enemy of bacteria, what it comes down to is that the rate at which bacteria accumulate at an ideal temperature is dependent on the initial level of contamination.  The lower the initial level of contamination, the lower the risk over a particular interval of time. 

 

Rick


Edited by Rick Alan - 4/4/15 at 12:07pm
post #49 of 60
Deleted reply.

There is too much wrong here to bother.

Please don't eat potentially dangerous foods people.

Piss test and boiling botulism aside; don't leave food out over night and eat it.
post #50 of 60
50 years ago it was rare to force feed our protein sources (as well as ourselves) antibiotics to the point of creating antibiotic resistant bugs.
These bugs remain in the meat, we consume the meat and there you go....
A potential live grenade has just entered the gut.
Even if you do seek medical attention in a timely manner there is a chance you will die anyway.
Organ systems shutting down, one by one (ever hear of septicemia ?).
Yes this is unlikely to happen but the stats are becoming quite grim with each passing year.

Wanna eat it?
Go ahead...knock yerself out.

mimi
post #51 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheflayne View Post
 

It survives and even grows just fine in the presence of oxygen but it flourishes and produces the toxins in an environment of little to no air like your gastrointestinal system.

Well okay, but Clostridium almost always is accompanied by a foul smell when you reheat it. This I do know....from experience. 

Doesn't mean it's safe if it DOESN'T smell bad. Just sayin. 

I too have left beef out over night, covered, and it's been fine. 

But having done it, and recommending it are two different things. 

post #52 of 60

In most cuts of meat, you will find anaerobic pockets anyway - just leaving it open to the air doesn't exactly stop anaerobes. That said, I left roast out overnight myself and it was fine. As Meezenplaz said, still not recommending it.

post #53 of 60

All right, guilty as charged, you can't help but say I was recommending it.

 

But mainly I was pointing out  that bacterial accumulation over time is a function of initial contamination and the level of additional exposure.  To put things in perspective, it seems to me you're taking a much bigger chance with a rare-cooked steak, or similarly cooked store bought Hamburg far worse (belly ache very likely), than a covered pot of stew left overnight.

 

It's obvious some have had a very strong reaction to my words here, but to me there is some irony in this.  I look at the wonderful dishes that get shown around here but then I wonder, "Is this the nutritional content of a typical meal for them?"  There is typically a dearth of raw vegetables, particularly your bitter greens, both very important for strong immune response and overall good health.  Of course these might have just been intentionally left out of the plating.

 

It was also mentioned that bacteria feed on protein.  But, aside from a limited number of stains known as flesh eating bacteria (which I don't think can be contracted thru eating) in the body bacteria rely on excess carbohydrates, something I also see a lot of in cooking around here.  A mention was made of supergerms, or at least they where alluded to, but at this time it is hospitals and the people who frequent them, not cows, that are harboring these.  I stay away from hospitals, and would certainly think twice about any invasive procedure and where I would have it done.

 

Due to an undiagnosed digestive issue combined with a period of great physical and emotional stress I came down with an advanced case of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and this before there was even a name for it.  It took a number of years but I am one of the lucky few who got over it.  I attribute this entirely to overall favorably efficacious eating habits.  Not to mention the supplements I take to compensate for typical food production methods that are not conducive to full potentials for nutritional content.  The doctors were certainly no help here for sure.

 

So given this please excuse me if I come off cavalier about a pot of stew left out over night, I do feel there are other things people should maybe be more concerned about in their eating.

 

And I still feel a pot roast does not improve by eating it the next day.  ;-)~

 

 

Rick


Edited by Rick Alan - 4/4/15 at 11:22pm
post #54 of 60
Ish ok @Rick Alan it is actually pretty rare but there is growing concern re: the increasing presence of these antibiotic resistant superbugs being present in not just the intestines but the muscle tissue as well ( consumed and passed on to humans).

Actually I found a study from the early 1960's so the 50 year comment on my part was false.

TONS of study's with just one search.
Pretty dry med journal reading but very interesting.
What concerned me the most is that current research is starting to prove the issue ( the latest one I skimmed was published in 2011) as awareness (and research funds) increase.
There is most likely more current info out there but it is late and the subject was making me a bit depressed.

mimi
Edited by flipflopgirl - 4/5/15 at 2:02am
post #55 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefboyOG View Post

Please don't eat potentially dangerous foods people.

Piss test and boiling botulism aside; don't leave food out over night and eat it.

 

I agree - the idea of leaving meat based food out is stupid. Period. We know the risks associated with it. Is your immune system strong enough to counter it? It's a gamble each and every time if you don't treat the food properly to ensure you've killed all the bad stuffs. You can do that by the way. Why is it we default to just saying NO? An abundance of care is probably not a bad thing but it can be limiting.

 

The danger in a discussion like this, is that people then do not allow for real understanding of food preservation techniques that actually rely on the spoiling of a product to be effective. Ask yourself, would you eat cabbage that has been left out in room temperature for 3 weeks or more? You probably shouldn't, but with adequate salt it's a popular product and completely safe. I hate that some people are so wary of fermentation. Are there risks? Yes there are. There are risks with eating a medium steak as well. How many of you are going to take a strong stance against cooking beef less than well done?

post #56 of 60
Fermentation is a different animal. In any substrate its not monoculture, there are many species. Whats important is creating an environment that grows what you want and not others. You're using salt, acid, and even populations of known good organisms to keep the bad stuff at bay. Once your lactic acid bacteria and yeast take hold they will limit populations of dangerous stuff in a self regulating way, that's why we have all sorts of ferments on purpose.

Then there's canning, curing, smoking...
post #57 of 60
We could also talk about the bazillions (y'all ever notice how I just ❤️ to exaggerate numbers lol) of beasties and yeasties (and invent my own words lol) that happily coexist on the human body?
We are mostly immune to our own ( unless there is an overgrowth) as well as those who share our environment but it only takes shaking the neighbor's hand or touching a shopping basket handle (the drugstore is the most dangerous...all those sick peeps there to pick up Rx) to make us sick.

Of course the very young and the very old are most susceptible with their poor immune systems.
Having been in medicine for over 20 years I can can count on one hand all of the times I had a cold or tummy bug.
My immune system was exposed and my body would just ID the bug, kill it off and if the bug does not mutate for the next exposure I was golden.
Since I have retired I catch every virus the Grand's bring home from school.
The human body is a miraculous machine.

I could go on but I won't....I am a real biology geek lol.

mimi
Edited by flipflopgirl - 4/5/15 at 8:34am
post #58 of 60
Anyone willing to take food safety risks probably never. Had a case of real food poisoning.
post #59 of 60

I'm not saying to do any of those things lightly.  There are proper procedures and guidelines for all.  The point was that you will never sterilize everything.  A lot of the magic is in the funk.  Raw milk cheeses, fish sauce, unpasteurized cask ales... 

 

If you don't follow the guidelines then yeah it can be very dangerous, but that's true of so many things.  I still think raw milk cheese should be legalized.  I hate dead cheeses they sell in the US.

post #60 of 60

I think like Flip Flop Girl---I have had food poisoning twice----and never want to experience it again---

 

As a pro--I also looked at the risks and the consequences of poorly handled food---

 

Teaching kitchen staff how to quickly get food from hot to cold took some time---

many believe the old wives tale about letting a pot cool before getting it into the refrigerator.

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