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Japanese Knife wanted for thin slicing

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 

...for cured and aged meats such as coppa and beef bresaola.  What I have is an old Sabatier slicing knife with a round bolster and blade length (from bolster to tip) that measures 7 5/8 inches.  Which Japanese made blade in the $200-$350 range would be suitable. 

 

I'm so tired of slicing with both my Sabatier and 30 year old Henkels Chefs' knives.  But the Henkels performs well for slicing bacon skin-on.

 

Perhaps I should just breakdown and get a commercial electric slicer made by Hobart??

 

Old Skool by hand.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #2 of 24
check out sujihiki knives. japanese equivalent to a western slicer. a good cheap japanese or in japanese style would be Fujiwara FKM, or Tojiro DP or even a Richmond Artifex. All found on Chefknivestogo.

=D
post #3 of 24

BDL's comments steered me toward Konosuke, and so far I haven't seen anything in the $200 range I like better than their 210 HD Wa Petty.  It probably measures about the same 7 5/8" heel to tip as your sab.  That size knife I can use for just about anything slicing and boning.  Splitting squash and rough-chopping carrots I'm happy to do with a dimestore 9" che'fs knife.

 

Rick

post #4 of 24

I feel your pain, but after using Henckels, Shun, old Sabatier, "no name" American Carbon Steel, and more Shun knives to do same and similar... I'm thinking of the commercial electric slicer option.  I even thought of getting one of those knives like the sushi chefs -- a long Yanagi, I think its called.  But face reality... you really just want to buy another knife, huh?  :)

post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 

Naaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh.  I got my first bochos during the 80's and they're really meant for meat offering way less resistance than the stuff offered in the western world.  An electric slicer it'll be.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #6 of 24

If you can find a pre-owned Carter Suj buy it.

post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranzB69 View Post

check out sujihiki knives. japanese equivalent to a western slicer. a good cheap japanese or in japanese style would be Fujiwara FKM, or Tojiro DP or even a Richmond Artifex. All found on Chefknivestogo.
=D

 

So you'd recommend the Fujiwara stainless over their carbon steel model?

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #8 of 24

The alloy Fujiwara uses for its carbon "FKH" series isn't very good; it's got too much of too many impurities, particularly sulfur.  Assuming someone is willing to put in the little bit of extra care which carbon requires, I'd recommend carbon over similarly priced stainless -- but not the FKH. 

 

Slicer, suji, yanagiba, or machine; stainless; semi-stainless or carbon, stainless; 8", 10", 12 ...   Depends on what and how much of it you're trying to do.  My 10" K-Sab au carbone slicer and 300mm Konosuke HD suji suit my needs. 

 

BDL

post #9 of 24
uhm what BDL said. lol.


yes coz all i've been doing is following what BDL recommends. =D
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boar_d_laze View Post...My 10" K-Sab au carbone slicer ...

BDL

 

Can't seem to find an online source for K-sab au carbone.  Where is their website?  Would it be on this page: http://thebestthings.com/knives/sabatiercarbon.htm

 

Or would it be the Sabatier Nogents on this page:  http://thebestthings.com/knives/sabatier_nogent.htm

 

 

I could really go for another Sabatier to complement my collection of pitted blades!  8^P


Edited by kokopuffs - 11/28/12 at 7:05pm

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #11 of 24

This is about the only place that I can find that sells the K Sab au carbone.  Hopefully that's what you're looking for!

 

http://www.sabatier.us/kitchen-knives_15_au-carbone-vintage_.html

 

Cheers!

 

GN

post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 

Well how does it compare to the other two alloys referred to?????????????????????

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #13 of 24

To which ones?  Your post was just looking for a place to find K Sab au carbone slicers haha!  lol.gif

post #14 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavination View Post

To which ones?  Your post was just looking for a place to find K Sab au carbone slicers haha!  lol.gif

 

Au Carbone  VS

 

Thiers Issard Nogent  VS

 

Thiers Issard Carbone

 

 

We have just two different websites here that may be offering identical products.

 

DECISIONS DECISIONS DECISIONS    8^$

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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post #15 of 24

The Best Things is the only source for Thiers Issard Sabatier in the US.  You can find T-I stuff online if you look in French, but it's not worth the effort or the postage.  T-I Sabatier is also T-I Quatre Etoile (aka "four stars" aka ****) Elephant.  The T-I "Nogents" are really a bunch of pre WWII rat-tail knife blanks T-I found laying around when they tore down an old warehouse to make room for new offices.  K-Sabatier is the oldest of the Sabatier makers.

 

All of the carbon alloy used for each of the three series is the same, or similar it might be the same.  The T-I (carbone and Massif) and K-Sab carbone (Vintage and Antique) slicers are nearly identical.  Sometimes you get better F&F on one or another, but it varies... and that's France for you. 

 

T-I Carbone and K-Sab Vintage au carbone have more modern bolsters than the Massifs and Antiques (FWIW, both of those are also referred to as Canadians).  The Carbones/au carbone bolster have an integral ferrule and the thin, full finger guard that's so characteristic of Sabatier.  The Nogents, have an aluminum ferrule between that same finger guard and the handle.  The Canadians' fingerguard and handle abut.

 

The Nogent knives are slightly lighter and stiffer, but again F&F is variable.  If you decide to order a Nogent from The Best Things (who else?), it's very important that you contact them (her, really) and let them (her) know that you want a straight knife.  Some of the blanks are bent at the intersection of handle and bolster, a few further up the blade.  Bent handles can be corrected if they're not too bad, but anytime you move steel it fatigues it and it's something you'd rather not to if you don't have to. 

 

If you buy a carbon Sabatier, expect that you will have to profile a new edge.  Sometimes you don't, sometimes you get a great edge.  Sometimes you get a good profile, but one that needs sharpening.  And sometimes you get bupkis.  And that's France for you.  Fortunately the knives are extremely easy to sharpen, so that shouldn't be too much of a drawback for anyone with any kind of sharpening plan.  Koko, you won't find it an issue at all.  

 

The US retailer for K-Sabatier used to be an "outlet," which sold a lot of "seconds."  I believe this has changed and they now sell regular stock as well.  The K-Sab factory has its own website: http://www.sabatier-shop.com/couteau-cuisine.php for kitchen knives. The direct from the factory store provides some services the US outlet does not, including engraving.  But shipping costs a lot.  Sometimes, you can find K-Sabs on Amazon, but selection is catch as catch can. 

 

Not that it matters but I currently have two 10" Sab slicers, a Canadian and a K-Sab au carbone, a 6" Nogent which gets used as a petty.  I like them all hugely.  Someday I'll get a salmon knife, because why not?

 

BDL


Edited by boar_d_laze - 11/29/12 at 7:21am
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 

About 12-15 years ago I purchased what was advertised a brand new Sabatier Carbon Steel from some supplier and was totally unimpressed with the blade's quality.  The metal never stained or patinaed as well as my really older Sab's and it never took as good an edge as the older ones either.  It could have been thought of as a carbon steel knife with a side order of stainless added to it.

 

FWIW I purchased an old Sab on ebay in the early 2000's and although old, it's blade is somewhat crooked but that's not an issue here and it's performed quite well, just like an older Sab should.   However, with a slicer I'll demand one that absolutely toute droite, if you know what I mean.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 

And btw K Sabs can be found here at Amazon.

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #18 of 24

Say BDL, what about the Tekeda 210 petty in comparison to the Konosuke?

post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopuffs View Post

 An electric slicer it'll be.

 

A solid plan if you can find one in your price point.  As much as I like my suji it's not the knife I'd grab for slicing hard salami. Double that sentiment for a yanagi which would really be headed in the wrong direction (IMO) unless you just wanted one. If you did go that route I'd certainly heed BDL's preference for 300mm. 270mm is as short as I'd want in either style unless you have some very specific use for a shorter version.

Try to find restaurant suppliers in your area and look for a small used commercial slicer. There's a plethora of Italian made slicers available today and you can also buy them direct from LEM etc. Berkyl is very good and popular brand at a favorable price point. A small used Hobart will typically be 4x your budget and probably a lot larger than you want/need. An electric meat slicer is an awesome tool to have and you'll find plenty of use for one even at home. Once you buy one there's no going back. ;)

 

 

Dave

 

 

 

http://www.lemproducts.com/product/4212/saws_slicers

I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
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I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
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post #20 of 24
Say BDL, what about the Tekeda 210 petty in comparison to the Konosuke?

 

Takeda are good performers, super thin knives which get super sharp; but I don't like them for a bunch of personal reasons, not the least of which are my distaste for san-mai construction and kurouchi finish.  Most Takeda knife profiles are too flat, but that doesn't apply to a petty.  What does, is their cost. They're very expensive to use as a petty, 25% more than the (now also overpriced) Konosuke HH.  Finally, because among many other things my 150mm Kono is my citrus and bar knife, stainless makes more sense than carbon for an only petty.

 

But like a lot of "BDL Wisdom," the most important thing to remember is that we're looking for the best knives for you and not for me. 

 

BDL

post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckFat View Post...direct from LEM etc. Berkyl is very good and popular brand at a favorable price point.   Dave

 

 

 

http://www.lemproducts.com/product/4212/saws_slicers

 

Are parts readily available for the LEM slicer??

Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
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Best and I'm a foodie.   I know very little but the little that I know I want to know very well.

 

-T

Brot und Wein
(1 photos)
 
Reply
post #22 of 24

You can call them and ask but they sell parts for and service most of the products they sell which is a huge advantage over the majority of the small Italian slicers unless you stick with a commercial grade machine. I'd certainly try looking for a used Berkyl if that fits your budget. I've bought them for as little as $200 used at a restaurant supply.

 

Dave

I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
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I think the most wonderful thing in the world is another chef. I'm always excited about learning new things about food.
Paul Prudhomme
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post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranzB69 View Post

uhm what BDL said. lol.
yes coz all i've been doing is following what BDL recommends. =D

Don't we all?

post #24 of 24
pretty much =D

lol.
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